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Hate Being Human... Why???

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#61 Vapor Trails

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 08:20 PM

Hibblette,

I'm getting to the point where I'm parroting myself, and I'm not going to do that any further. All I'm going to take out of your last post is this bit, and then we're done.

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To sit back and just say I hate being human (ah the title of the thread) and to say well people allllllllllll coming together ain't going to happen so therefore I really hate being human because of this is ... I think the equivalent of when I was a child and said I ain't making my bed because I'm just going to sleep in it later, what's the use.

You're missing my point. Of course folks have to make an effort to get along and live together. But to think that humanity is going to reach some utopian ideal of "everyone eventually getting along and living in peace" is childish.

All one can hope for is to win a battle here and there. It's certainly not enough, and it's frustrating as hell. But that's the way it is, and that's the way it will be-like it or not.

And yes, there are times I'm ashamed of being a human being, and there are a lot of things I've seen and experienced that don't give me much faith in our species-and that in fact, inspire a deep loathing.

But that's me. People can understand those feelings or not. But in the end-the way I feel is the way I feel.

(shrug)

:eh:

Edited by Digital Man, 15 December 2006 - 08:21 PM.

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#62 SparkyCola

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 09:02 PM

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To sit back and just say I hate being human (ah the title of the thread) and to say well people allllllllllll coming together ain't going to happen so therefore I really hate being human because of this is ... I think the equivalent of when I was a child and said I ain't making my bed because I'm just going to sleep in it later, what's the use.

We do the best we can and we actually do it as individuals. I don't do it because you're saying to do it...I do it because I choose to do it.

Are you assuming that I don't practice what I preach? Or at least, try. I believe we will NEVER reach perfection. You can't just assume from that though, Hibbs, that I won't try anyway - I once, a long time ago, asked a friend of mine in jest "If practice makes perfect, but no body's perfect, why practice?" - she said "To become very very very very very good"  

And she's right, of course.

I think the title of this thread is misleading. No one ever said anything about "hating" being human. I don't "hate" being human, I hate the fact that people seem to prioritise the wrong things in life. I hate the things we do and don't do when we have the potential to do so much better. I don't hate being human, being ashamed of the human race is nothing like the same as hating being human.

I hope that's clear, because, take for an example the Sparkiness herself.  I don't "hate" myself - sometimes I'm ashamed of myself for something I did or failed to do, I'm not perfect, but the reason for being ashamed in the first place is because that's the aim. If you recognise where you're going wrong you can improve, if you just let it all go by and think "whatcha gonna do? that's just the way it is." or "that's probably just the best I could do. Yeah, I could have stopped that kid getting hit, but, everyone else walked by, it's good enough for me." then it's ignorant bliss.

Sparky

Edited by SparkyCola, 15 December 2006 - 09:03 PM.

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#63 Mark

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 09:07 PM

View PostWhite Tiger, on Dec 15 2006, 05:53 PM, said:

Personally I hope the human race either grows in responsibility soon....or wholely becomes extinct...
All I can do is sit back and wait for our greed to catch up and finally do each of us in.
I have struggled and taught my students we must respect our world and the creatures that co-inhabit it with us...yet I cannot alter anything worth while...All I can hope for is to witness the end and accept it as one of the criminals of nature.

Mark: I agree with you to an extent. While the human race is far from ideal, each of us CAN do some things to make things better around us. You for instance, are teaching your students about respecting the world, and creatures the co-habitat with us. In doing so, you are doing something very worth while!! Don't under estimate the power of one to make a difference!  :)
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#64 Hibblette

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 09:25 PM

Digital Man, my posts have been we are not going to reach utopia because of how different we are.

But I still like being human.

And SparkyCola, I wasn't really even referring to you or actually even Digital Man.  Why pounce on that negatively when I also said this?

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People make efforts at these things everyday.

I do.

I believe that Lil, Zack, Drew, Mark and yes even you do.

In fact everyone on this thread and I'll go as far as saying everyone on this board. That's why a lot of us come here.

And Sparky misleading or not QT opened it with that title and with that question and some have responded in kind saying yes-they hate it.

All well and fine if they do but I've simply made my case (along with a few others) that "we are what we are" and I keep trying, practicing...whatever.

And I ask the question how exactly do we get everyone to think in this collective way?
"There are many ways of going forward, but there is only one way of standing still."  FDR explaining why Liberals are so often divided and Conservatives are so often united.

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#65 White Tiger

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 09:26 PM

I know I know...I am just so overwhelmed and exhausted...I try to do as much as I can yet I am such a freaken hyppocryt (SP I'm tired ok) I love muscle Cars which is such a gas guzzler, I eat meat that I do not take the responsibility to kill myself, I am a Computer hog which uses so many resources... I am so weak
:(
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#66 Hibblette

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 09:28 PM

View PostWhite Tiger, on Dec 15 2006, 08:26 PM, said:

I know I know...I am just so overwhelmed and exhausted...I try to do as much as I can yet I am such a freaken hyppocryt (SP I'm tired ok) I love muscle Cars which is such a gas guzzler, I eat meat that I do not take the responsibility to kill myself, I am a Computer hog which uses so many resources... I am so weak
:(

But I believe in you White Tiger.

Especially since you are one in a position to do some good.

Here's to ya.
"There are many ways of going forward, but there is only one way of standing still."  FDR explaining why Liberals are so often divided and Conservatives are so often united.

"I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat."  Will Rogers

#67 Captain Jack

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 09:34 PM

People are the sh*t of the earth.  They go out of their way to be mean and nasty to others.  They kill for pleasure.  Family members betray family members.  Best friends backstab bestfriends.  Money is something that must be attained by any means necessary.  Heck, people would even let you make a lane change.  Girlfriend/boyfriend will cheat on you, or dump you for another.  Morals, honor, honesty, faith, trust, goodness, kindness, and love have long since been forgotten.

I love Christmas as a holiday.  The meaning at the very least is to be good to all men (and women).  Instead, people are nastier then usual.  Gotta get those X-Mas presents, get the hell out of my way.  ME ME ME ME ME!!!

I have been screwed by friends and family so many times,  I don't want to deal with humans anymore.  Because I can't trust 'em.  No matter what, I'm always let down.  Ive always tried to see the good in people, and be fair and give a fair shake in any friendship and/or relationship.  Every time, I've been f'ed up.  No more.
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#68 SparkyCola

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 09:38 PM

ok, well I didn't mean to pounce on one part without addressing another Hibbs, so I'll do that in a sec - first though, I certainly agree that you can't force these things on people, like caring etc. - and it would be wrong to try.

As for why I responded, you seem to be commenting on behaviour I have exhibited, and thus i felt involved enough to respond, if that makes sense :unsure:

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People make efforts at these things everyday.

I do.

I believe that Lil, Zack, Drew, Mark and yes even you do.

In fact everyone on this thread and I'll go as far as saying everyone on this board. That's why a lot of us come here.

Well, there are a number of reasons I didn't respond initially. One is the slightly amusing use of "even" in "yes even you do".

Making efforts on such things is an admirable thing to do, but I still think people who truly put their best into it are few and far between - and in a way it's just the kind of world we've built up which makes it so hard- and we can't be blamed in some ways- but like i say, it's a world humans created for themselves. They always say hindsight is 20/20 though I guess. People who volunteer in their spare time or whatever are a minority- the exception not the rule.

When it comes to not doing and walking by and ignoring and burying heads in the sand -most people prefer to keep their world's small and controllable, and prefer "not to get involved".

I know I'm rambling in only a semi-coherent manner, but it's getting a bit late (or early) so I apologise.

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#69 SparkyCola

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 09:42 PM

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I know I know...I am just so overwhelmed and exhausted...I try to do as much as I can yet I am such a freaken hyppocryt (SP I'm tired ok) I love muscle Cars which is such a gas guzzler, I eat meat that I do not take the responsibility to kill myself, I am a Computer hog which uses so many resources... I am so weak

I know how you feel White Tiger. It's frustrating :(

Quote

I have been screwed by friends and family so many times, I don't want to deal with humans anymore. Because I can't trust 'em. No matter what, I'm always let down. Ive always tried to see the good in people, and be fair and give a fair shake in any friendship and/or relationship. Every time, I've been f'ed up. No more.

:( :hugs:

It all reminds me of an X-Files ep I saw once, where Mulder had 3 wishes. His first was for 'Peace on Earth' - he went outside and the world was devoid of humans.

Sparky
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#70 Vapor Trails

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 09:47 PM

View PostHibblette, on Dec 15 2006, 09:25 PM, said:

Digital Man, my posts have been we are not going to reach utopia because of how different we are.

I've written exactly the same thing.

Quote

But I still like being human.

Good for you. At best, I'm indifferent about being human. When my time comes to die, there's not going to be much I'll miss about this place.

But whatever...
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#71 Lin731

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 10:42 PM

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I don't think you're really listening to my point Lil, tbh. The point is that it's not about the extreme bad people or the extreme good people - it's about the everyday people. You're right, they don't do anything VERY bad. But they also don't do anything VERY good. They do nothing. They - we - let these extreme bad things go on and do nothing, and for me that makes us 'accomplices', as it were. What's the old expression about the man who does nothing being about an evil?

I think "They do nothing" is very overstated Sparky. The vast majority of people do something, on a small scale in their own corners of the world. They do for family and friends, they do for strangers in need. They donate money, toys for Xmas, cloths for women trying to get back on their feet and into the job market, they tutor adults in learning to read, they help troubled kids in the neighborhood. Sometimes it's the small acts of kindness, or simply raising your own kids to be good, decent people. Not everyone is meant for "big things", if they were, we'd not have so few truly remarkable, world changing people. Most of us do what we can to improve things within our abilities. We may not do Earth shattering things but we DO help as we can.

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Like I say - it's just my point of view, and I don't hate other people or anything of the sort in my everyday affairs, and I'm not a miserable moping sort of person, so that can't be the reason I take this point of view.

Sparky

I think you're just very idealistic, which is an awesome thing but our greatest wishes are often at odds with our abilities to make them happen. It would be wonderful if all the average people could act in a collective way to bring about change but that's a HUGE order. Many great people in the course of history have tried, with limited sucess but every inch is better than nothing.
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#72 Mark

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 11:33 PM

Hibblett:

Quote

People make efforts at these things everyday.
I do.
I believe that Lil, Zack, Drew, Mark and yes even you do.
In fact everyone on this thread and I'll go as far as saying everyone on this board. That's why a lot of us come here.

Mark:  :o  You said that about me?   :shy2:

:love: Thank you very much Hibblette!  :hugs: What a nice thing to say.
I am very happy someone noticed that I do try to make those kind of efforts.
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#73 Hibblette

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 11:35 PM

Okay so you take the "even" as an insult, sorry.

It's just that there seems to be a "I think this, you think this-we are so opposite."  That's why I used the word "even"-in other words we are all individuals and yet we are all in the same boat.  "Even You, and you and you and you...."

Me too.  Even I.

I agree with Lil, Zack, Drew, Mark and Lin.

There are good people out there and yes...there's bad people too.  Fact of life.

See the thing is the bad people generally get a lot of PR and when people do bad things to us we tend to not forget that-pain has a tendency to do this.  But there are how many people in this world presently?  And how long have we walked this earth?  It's not all bad, in fact I tend to believe there's been more good then bad then what we realize.  It's just what's going to be remembered and centered on in the history books and in our newspapers.

And actually we are all guilty of this bad pr thing.  We tend to focus on it, even when we think back and tell our children or whomever when we are talking about our past.  I can tell you in detail the accidents I've had with cars, horses and just my own two feet.  I can tell you about my heart being broken by a lover or friends.  I do have to think a little bit harder about the good times.

Edited by Hibblette, 15 December 2006 - 11:36 PM.

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#74 Mark

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Posted 16 December 2006 - 01:20 AM

View PostDigital Man, on Dec 15 2006, 08:47 PM, said:

View PostHibblette, on Dec 15 2006, 09:25 PM, said:

Digital Man, my posts have been we are not going to reach utopia because of how different we are.

I've written exactly the same thing.

Quote

But I still like being human.

Good for you. At best, I'm indifferent about being human. When my time comes to die, there's not going to be much I'll miss about this place.

But whatever...

Mark: I bet you wouldn't be indifferent if I had magical powers, and threatened to turn you into a cow!  

Not much you're going to miss about this place?   :eek2:
Man, are you...uh...deranged? ....oh, WAIT... :look: ...I forgot.  :blush:

;)
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#75 D.Rabbit

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Posted 16 December 2006 - 01:31 AM

'Digital Man' date='Dec 11 2006, 12:15 AM'

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I'm sorry-but I couldn't disagree more strongly with this. How long has man been around? How often have the same patterns of violence, arrogance, and other forms of abuse been around? I'm sorry-but what you're saying sounds too idealistic to me. We'll have to agree to disagree.

Are we talking about human rights? The Prime Minister of Canada was invited to China, when the leader of China found out that he was going to address China's shameful human rights records, he was uninvited, but he went anyways. There are people trying to make a difference. There are schools where you can go and take Community based conflict resolution  Not only does this site work on conflict resolution the founder is busy with the top technical minds of the planet putting together sites where people in developing countries can learn to use the less expensive programs for free that Microsoft gouges for. I can not speak highly enough of what Mr. Birt is doing to make this a better world.

Quote

Again-that seems too idealistic. Also-who is doing the educating? What are people being educated about? In many places, knowledge is severely curtailed by those in power. These folks know that knowledge can be a weapon that can be turned against them. There are countries that go to great lengths to censor the Internet.

I think they are starting with the basic, reading, writing and how to use a keyboard.
Sure China has a lock down on the internet, but everyday at least 100 proxy servers come on line and bypass the lock down. There are always going to be people with the know how to get around sanctions, thinkers who don't swallow the status quo and want to make a better life for their fellows.


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Don't assume that "education" will be tolerated ever where. Again-there are tyrants who know how dangerous knowledge can be-and therefore, the people under them will only learn the things the leaders deem proper.

I assure you I know of the tyrants, I also know of those brave enough to fight them. Tyrants don't live forever. Look at Communism in Russia, all their sanctions and making people rat out their fellows, that turned into a big mess, it fell apart. I myself have been a victim of an internet tyrant, seems they didn't expect me to fight back. Too bad for them.


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And do you really believe education is just going to be given free reign? To think that will be the case is incredibly naive.

Not so naive, women where not allowed to be docters at one time. Women in the middle east where not allowed an education. Women in Afghanistan recently where given the right to an education.  This is but a start. The truth will filter in one way or another. With the internet and the proxy servers it is no longer a tyrants world.

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And do you think everyone wants peace? I think for more than a few folks, being hard-wired for violence is a benefit.

Yes we do want peace, unfortunately we have built our economy with the war machine. We need to find the way to rebuild it.

Martin Luther King  Said

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Nonviolence is the answer to the crucial political and moral questions of our time; the need for mankind to overcome oppression and violence without resorting to oppression and violence. Mankind must evolve for all human conflict a method which rejects revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method is love.


You mentioned hatred of gays etc. It's about intolerance. At one time lynching AA people in the south, during the era of Jim Crow was thought to be the natural way of things. In some parts of the south it still is, but there have been many inroads and Jim Crow is fast becoming a memory best left forgotten.

The gays have their own TV shows, though they often enough play the clown it makes them more human, less a threat, less to be feared. It actually gives them more respect in the courts of law when they have been unjustly battered for who they are. Their sitcoms are a form of  education.

There are laws against clear cutting forest in Canada. People can buy an acre of rain forest to keep it from being cleared. The universities offer courses in managing natural resources, the high schools have special education programs that teach our youth the value of the planet.

What ails us is not going to clear up over night, but our youth are very well attuned to problems that those that came before them where too short sighted and greedy to consider.

edit: Thanks Mark, I found the bad seed.

Edited by D.Rabbit, 16 December 2006 - 02:12 AM.

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#76 Mark

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Posted 16 December 2006 - 01:43 AM

Mark: For you, D. Rabbit.... " incredibly naive.{/quote]"

Perhaps that'll help you solve the mystery.  :angel:

Edited by Mark, 16 December 2006 - 01:44 AM.

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#77 Vapor Trails

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Posted 16 December 2006 - 10:59 AM

D.Rabbit,

You seem to be missing my point, which I've been repeating over and over again in this thread.

Trying to make things better for folks is laudable, and yes, should be encouraged. But the bottom line is-you either succeed or don't. Trying simply isn't enough.

I also said that, despite the efforts of people who want to make positive changes, humanity's overall immaturity will stymie those positive attempts to varying degrees.

And that's why humanity will never truly mature as a species. Disproportionate positive effects are simply not enough for me.

Edited by Digital Man, 16 December 2006 - 11:02 AM.

Posted Image

Politicians are like bananas; they hang together, they're all yellow, and there's not a straight one among them.

"We're relevant for $ and a vote once every two years. Beyond that, we're completely irrelevant, except of course to consume, and preach the gospel according to [insert political demigod here]."--Cait

#78 Bad Wolf

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Posted 16 December 2006 - 01:32 PM

View PostHibblette, on Dec 15 2006, 08:35 PM, said:

There are good people out there and yes...there's bad people too.  Fact of life.

See the thing is the bad people generally get a lot of PR and when people do bad things to us we tend to not forget that-pain has a tendency to do this.  But there are how many people in this world presently?  And how long have we walked this earth?  It's not all bad, in fact I tend to believe there's been more good then bad then what we realize.  It's just what's going to be remembered and centered on in the history books and in our newspapers.

And actually we are all guilty of this bad pr thing.  We tend to focus on it, even when we think back and tell our children or whomever when we are talking about our past.  I can tell you in detail the accidents I've had with cars, horses and just my own two feet.  I can tell you about my heart being broken by a lover or friends.  I do have to think a little bit harder about the good times.

What Hibbs said.
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#79 Hibblette

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Posted 16 December 2006 - 08:12 PM

Quote

you either succeed or don't. Trying simply isn't enough.

Yes but how will you succeed if you don't try?

And sometimes trying is what it takes to get others inspired and get them going.  

And sometimes through not succeeding one can sit back study the results and figure out just exactly what went wrong.  Believe me we wouldn't have more then half of the modern day conveniences that we have today if it hadn't been for the tenacity of engineers who said, "ooops that didn't work...what went wrong?"  and then they study it and try again...and you know they may not succeed that time but they keep on trying.

And again...no we are not all going to come to one mindset.

But for those who try to do the right thing and try to get help to others in some way or another then they are commendable and they are doing a good thing.  And they may not completely succeed...but they did try.  You have to start somewhere.
"There are many ways of going forward, but there is only one way of standing still."  FDR explaining why Liberals are so often divided and Conservatives are so often united.

"I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat."  Will Rogers

#80 Vapor Trails

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Posted 16 December 2006 - 09:45 PM

View PostHibblette, on Dec 16 2006, 08:12 PM, said:

Quote

you either succeed or don't. Trying simply isn't enough.

Yes but how will you succeed if you don't try?

And sometimes trying is what it takes to get others inspired and get them going.  

And sometimes through not succeeding one can sit back study the results and figure out just exactly what went wrong.  Believe me we wouldn't have more then half of the modern day conveniences that we have today if it hadn't been for the tenacity of engineers who said, "ooops that didn't work...what went wrong?"  and then they study it and try again...and you know they may not succeed that time but they keep on trying.

And again...no we are not all going to come to one mindset.

But for those who try to do the right thing and try to get help to others in some way or another then they are commendable and they are doing a good thing.  And they may not completely succeed...but they did try.  You have to start somewhere.


You know-if you're going to quote me, don't take things out of context. :sarcasm:

You forgot where I wrote this:

Trying to make things better for folks is laudable, and yes, should be encouraged.

Anyway, I'm done with this thread. I've parroted myself enough, and I refuse to do it any further.

The thread is yours.
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Politicians are like bananas; they hang together, they're all yellow, and there's not a straight one among them.

"We're relevant for $ and a vote once every two years. Beyond that, we're completely irrelevant, except of course to consume, and preach the gospel according to [insert political demigod here]."--Cait



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