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Bush has created a comprehensive catastrophe

Bush Administration 2006 Middle East Policy Foreign Policy Disaster

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#1 Cait

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Posted 17 December 2006 - 03:29 PM

It's a long piece, but worth the read. Follow the link for read more.

The Guardian

Quote

Bush has created a comprehensive catastrophe across the Middle East

In every vital area, from Afghanistan to Egypt, his policies have made the situation worse than it was before

Timothy Garton Ash
Thursday December 14, 2006
The Guardian


What an amazing bloody catastrophe. The Bush administration's policy towards the Middle East over the five years since 9/11 is culminating in a multiple train crash. Never in the field of human conflict was so little achieved by so great a country at such vast expense. In every vital area of the wider Middle East, American policy over the last five years has taken a bad situation and made it worse.

If the consequences were not so serious, one would have to laugh at a failure of such heroic proportions - rather in the spirit of Zorba the Greek who, contemplating the splintered ruins of his great project, memorably exclaimed: "Did you ever see a more splendiferous crash?" But the reckless incompetence of Zorba the Bush has resulted in the death, maiming, uprooting or impoverishment of hundreds of thousands of men, women and children - mainly Muslim Arabs but also Christian Lebanese, Israelis and American and British soldiers. By contributing to a broader alienation of Muslims it has also helped to make a world in which, as we walk the streets of London, Madrid, Jerusalem, New York or Sydney, we are all, each and every one of us, less safe. Laugh if you dare.

In the beginning, there were the 9/11 attacks. It's important to stress that no one can fairly blame George Bush for them. The invasion of Afghanistan was a justified response to those attacks, which were initiated by al-Qaida from its bases in a rogue state under the tyranny of the Taliban. But if Afghanistan had to be done, it had to be done properly. It wasn't. Creating a half-way civilised order in one of the most rugged, inhospitable and tribally recalcitrant places on the planet was always going to be a huge challenge. If the available resources of the world's democracies, including those of a new, enlarged Nato, had been dedicated to that task over the last five years, we might at least have one partial success to report today.

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Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

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#2 Mark

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Posted 17 December 2006 - 03:53 PM

Mark: That really depressed me, and gave me a headache. Thanks for that.  :blink:
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#3 G1223

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Posted 17 December 2006 - 04:54 PM

Yeah damm bush for firing those rockets into Israel from Lebabon. Then having Hezbolla take the blame. Damm him for having Syria and Iran nations known the wolrd over for being the bastins of peaceful tolerance for those of other faiths.

It's all Bush's fault and not the actions of evil men taking advantage of events.  

Once again the guardian proving that not all cat dropping find up in the trash sometimes they get made into news print.

Poor kitties unable to tell where the paper beigins and they can drop.
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#4 Captain Jack

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Posted 17 December 2006 - 06:08 PM

This isn't anything new though.  it's only going to get worse, and worse, and worse.  Thanks Bush.  Not to mention the damage he's done to the U.S., and running up the deficit through the roof.  I know some of you support Bush, but respectfully, I do not.
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#5 Themis

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Posted 17 December 2006 - 06:29 PM

G, do you have anything constructive to say refuting the article?  Or is it just "da*mn anyone who says anything bad about my great god bush?" as usual....

The Guardian is one of the most respected UK papers, as I recall, and NOT being a US paper, has no Republican/Democratic agenda.
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#6 G1223

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Posted 17 December 2006 - 06:36 PM

Ah Themis there is always a anti american press. Sometimes it is even outside of the US. The repect given is usually by that crowd.

The trying to say Bush made it so Hezbolla had to fire it's missles into Israel does not need to be refutted it needs to be given a belly laugh.

But hey I love the media and hope that we can see them fall on their sword for their anti american allies in those peace loving nations of Iran and Syria.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#7 omegaman

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Posted 17 December 2006 - 07:08 PM

Wait until countries like Saudi Arabia and Venezuela stop taking US dollars for their oil. Thats when the real fun will begin.  Dollars have been printed by all administrations since Nixon like no tomorrow, but especially the current one.    I mean, they even stopped publishing the M3 for pitys sake.  

It won't be long before producing nations (oil, manufactured goods, etc) realize that the paper Uncle Sam keeps handing out isn't  two ply or downy soft, but is equally as wortheless.  Actually a lot of clues are being dropped that nations like China already know this and are positioning themselves for the moment the music stops.

Believe me, it will be the average middle class Joe Six Pack that will be left without a seat, and probably without a shirt or shoes either.  But for all you American haters out there, don't worry.  I'm sure that Canada, Britain, Australia, France, etc will all be equally affected because they don't produce anything but worthless paper either - the only possible exception being Canada (natural resources).

I'll be thinking of all you guys while I drink homebrew in my bunker.   Cheers!
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#8 Godeskian

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Posted 17 December 2006 - 07:13 PM

One can hate American foreign policy without hating America. I think that the foreign policy enacted by Bush has destabilised the entire region. I think it has created whole crops of new radicals, and I think it has made the world more dangerous. If, following his presidency he is arrested and tried, I'll be the first to break out the champagne.

But I don't hate Americans, don't even hate the country really.

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#9 Captain Jack

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Posted 17 December 2006 - 07:20 PM

View PostG1223, on Dec 17 2006, 03:36 PM, said:

Ah Themis there is always a anti american press. Sometimes it is even outside of the US. The repect given is usually by that crowd.

True, but I don't this is one of them.

Quote

The trying to say Bush made it so Hezbolla had to fire it's missles into Israel does not need to be refutted it needs to be given a belly laugh.

Huh?  The only thing the Hezbolla like to do is try to wipe-out the Isrealites.  They don't give a rat's behind about Bush, nor do they play to his games.  It's the other way around.

Quote

But hey I love the media and hope that we can see them fall on their sword for their anti american allies in those peace loving nations of Iran and Syria.

Hehe, okay.  I can agree to that one.  :cool:
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#10 Captain Jack

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Posted 17 December 2006 - 07:22 PM

View PostGodeskian, on Dec 17 2006, 04:13 PM, said:

One can hate American foreign policy without hating America.

A concept all too many Muslim radicals fail or refuse to grasp.

Quote

I think that the foreign policy enacted by Bush has destabilised the entire region. I think it has created whole crops of new radicals, and I think it has made the world more dangerous. If, following his presidency he is arrested and tried, I'll be the first to break out the champagne.

Very, VERY well said, Gode.  I'm delighted to agree with you.  You're most correct! :cool:

Quote

But I don't hate Americans, don't even hate the country really.

Come on by, we'll show ya around.  :)
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#11 ShotenStar

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 09:14 AM

"comprehensive catastrophe"

I like that phrase.  Must remember that.

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#12 Mark

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 09:26 AM

Mark: I also like the phrase, "mythically miraculous", and that's what we need right now, something or someone mythically miraculous to save the day!
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#13 QueenTiye

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 10:20 AM

There really does seem to be a bit of Anti-American sentiment, and it isn't just foreign policy.  It is therefore not surprising that a newspaper will play up its editorial to feed the expectations of its audience.  

I'm pretty much in agreement that claiming that Bush policy "created" a catastrophe needs a bit more scrutiny.  The catastrophe that is the middle east existed before Bush and will survive him.  If his policies have been failures, it is hard to see where any other policy has been a success.  Year after year of foreign "management" of the situation seems to buy only a stand-off that is tenuous at best.  Peace, so often sought, never quite arrives.

I haven't read the article yet, and probably won't comment much on it when I do, but there, in a nutshell, is my opinion on any and all policy concerning the Middle East.  I find it hard to prove, given the history, that any policy was successful, since we've yet to see anything like peace.

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#14 Vapor Trails

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 10:59 AM

In some instances, anti-Americanism is justified. We tend to get a bit big for our britches sometimes.

Everyone's sh!t stinks, and America is no different.
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#15 Vapor Trails

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 11:06 AM

View PostGodeskian, on Dec 17 2006, 07:13 PM, said:

One can hate American foreign policy without hating America. I think that the foreign policy enacted by Bush has destabilised the entire region. I think it has created whole crops of new radicals, and I think it has made the world more dangerous. If, following his presidency he is arrested and tried, I'll be the first to break out the champagne.

But I don't hate Americans, don't even hate the country really.


Hey Gode  :cool:

I feel that one of the big problems with many Americans is that they tend to be a little too focused on what's happening here within their own borders, paying little if any attention to what's happening in the bigger world beyond. You're not going to learn anything if you only stick to what you're familiar with. I love to listen to/read international news. I enjoy the BBC, and I read their websites as well as listen to audio files.

And as a writer, this is particularly important to me. Trying to understand other perspectives is essential.
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#16 Drew

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 11:34 AM

View PostThemis, on Dec 17 2006, 05:29 PM, said:

G, do you have anything constructive to say refuting the article?  Or is it just "da*mn anyone who says anything bad about my great god bush?" as usual....

The Guardian is one of the most respected UK papers, as I recall, and NOT being a US paper, has no Republican/Democratic agenda.

Even so, G has a point. The Middle East has never been a model of stability. So it's hard to say whether the U.S.'s actions have made things worse (as the writer insists) or only brought the instability into greater focus.

And of course the writer has an agenda. Objectivity is a myth.
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#17 enTranced

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 02:18 PM

View PostQueenTiye, on Dec 18 2006, 03:20 PM, said:

If his policies have been failures, it is hard to see where any other policy has been a success.

Well....we could have tried NOT invading Iraq for those now legendary Weapons of Mass Destruction.

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#18 Spectacles

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 02:21 PM

From the article's conclusion:

Quote

Many a time, in these pages and elsewhere, I have warned against reflex Bush-bashing and kneejerk anti-Americanism. The United States is by no means the only culprit. Changing the Middle East for the better is one of the most difficult challenges in world politics. The people of the region bear much responsibility for their own plight. So do we Europeans, for past sins of commission and current sins of omission. But Bush must take the lion's share of the blame. There are few examples in recent history of such a comprehensive failure. Congratulations, Mr President; you have made one hell of a disaster.

He could have shortened the article by a few words since any non-American who criticizes Bush must be anti-American, regardless of what he says. And for that matter, so is any American who criticizes Bush.

Edited by Spectacles, 18 December 2006 - 02:23 PM.

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#19 Mark

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 04:15 PM

View PostSpectacles, on Dec 18 2006, 01:21 PM, said:

From the article's conclusion:

Quote

Many a time, in these pages and elsewhere, I have warned against reflex Bush-bashing and kneejerk anti-Americanism. The United States is by no means the only culprit. Changing the Middle East for the better is one of the most difficult challenges in world politics. The people of the region bear much responsibility for their own plight. So do we Europeans, for past sins of commission and current sins of omission. But Bush must take the lion's share of the blame. There are few examples in recent history of such a comprehensive failure. Congratulations, Mr President; you have made one hell of a disaster.

He could have shortened the article by a few words since any non-American who criticizes Bush must be anti-American, regardless of what he says. And for that matter, so is any American who criticizes Bush.

Mark: Posted Image Alright...where is Spectacles? What have you done with her?  :sly:
I assume with your last statement, you were being sarcastic?  :suspect:
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#20 Cait

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 04:37 PM

View PostDrew, on Dec 18 2006, 08:34 AM, said:

View PostThemis, on Dec 17 2006, 05:29 PM, said:

G, do you have anything constructive to say refuting the article?  Or is it just "da*mn anyone who says anything bad about my great god bush?" as usual....

The Guardian is one of the most respected UK papers, as I recall, and NOT being a US paper, has no Republican/Democratic agenda.

Even so, G has a point. The Middle East has never been a model of stability. So it's hard to say whether the U.S.'s actions have made things worse (as the writer insists) or only brought the instability into greater focus.

And of course the writer has an agenda. Objectivity is a myth.

You know I think as the most [powerful country in the world and a world power, we have a duty and a responsibility not to throw gasoline on an already volatile situation.  And that, in my opinion, is exactly what we did.  We carelessly went to war without a plan, an exist strategy, or even a clear purpose, beyond ousting Saddam.  That is reckless in my opinion, and for that, Bush is wholly responsible.

I think we can demand more from our President.  I think we have to demand more.  It's not good enough to say, "Opps!   Oh well, the region was a powder keg anyway.  My bad!"  It's just not good enough.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html




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