Jump to content


Getting an "Insecure Connection" warning for Exisle? No worry

Details in this thread

"That's What Hate Does"

LGBT Anti-Gay Demonstration Hate 2006

  • Please log in to reply
114 replies to this topic

#101 D.Rabbit

D.Rabbit

    Me and all my shadows.

  • Islander
  • 6,157 posts

Posted 23 December 2006 - 12:28 PM

Hatred evolves through identity and elitism.
The placing of any type of word before or after the words, "I am," to quality identity or join a genre of humanity, is the impetus that conflicts us.

As a single person, I have a problem with the legalities and perks of "marriage."

I have a single income, yet when I go to join a health club I pay more than a couple who have a double income. How fair is that?

Being single and being married is the point I'm trying to make, that if there where no "extra" incentives to be married, via the tax bills, country club memberships, pensions, etc. the whole gay marriage controversy would be mute. They would not have to be married legally to access the "perks" and that is why they are pushing for legal rights to marry.

Just looking at the cause and waving bye bye, cause I don't want to get into the fanaticism of elitist.
7 verses I know you're there behind the veil.

#102 Anastashia

Anastashia

    Tyrant Matriarch and Pegan Too!

  • Islander
  • 11,777 posts

Posted 23 December 2006 - 01:28 PM

View PostNatolii, on Dec 23 2006, 10:35 AM, said:

Ana, I cannot believe you are saying that she brought this on herself.

The whole "If she wasn't there, this wouldn't have happened" smacks of blaming the victim. No matter how many times you say it does not, it it all honesty does.

Sorry, but just because she left her position is no justification for this. If it was that big of a deal he could have just as easily signaled to police and had them handle the situation.

But no, Mr. Macho has to push a woman a good several feet before she ends up on her arse.

Yes, she has to take responsibility for her actions, but that in NO WAY justifies nor mitigates battery in this situation.

Once again Natolli I never said he was justified. I never said he should have done it (if it's proved that he did). I said if she was not there it could not have happened. That is a fact. You can not make a valid arguement against it.
The Science Fiction Examiner

In the quiet of Midden a young child grows.
Does the salvation of his people grow with him?
"Everything we do now is for the child"

"I made a mistake,
just follow along,
isn't that what tyranny is all about?"
Sheila M---my Praise Band Director

For as long as I shall live
I will testify to love
I'll be a witness in the silences when words are not enough
Testify to Love

Posted Image


#103 Lin731

Lin731
  • Islander
  • 4,126 posts

Posted 23 December 2006 - 05:54 PM

Quote

Once again Natolli I never said he was justified. I never said he should have done it (if it's proved that he did). I said if she was not there it could not have happened. That is a fact. You can not make a valid arguement against it.

One could also make the same point that had this gentleman not held this rally, it would not have provoked a counter-protest and this would never have happened either. The whole issue of "if she hadn't done that, it wouldn't have happened" is a double edged sword. This man took his protest to a public forum, for one and all to witness and to react to. So using your own logic, had he not done that, this never would have happened.
Posted Image
Posted Image

#104 Mark

Mark
  • Islander
  • 5,269 posts

Posted 23 December 2006 - 06:04 PM

Mark: ^^ Yes, but it wouldn't be too smart for say, a group of African-American men to attend a KKK meeting, or some red necks to attend a Black Panther Party rally, either. Everyone should use a little judgement as to where they go, and realize that there are risks in real life, even though "we the people" frown on not being free to attend anything we want to.

If someone was going to hold a "We Hate Mark" rally, I certainly wouldn't want to attend for fear of physical, and mental harm!  :eek4:

Edited by Mark, 23 December 2006 - 06:06 PM.

Mark
Discussion is an exchange of knowledge: argument is an exchange of ignorance.
Peace is not the absence of conflict, but the ability to cope with it.
APOGEE MESSAGE BOARD

#105 Lin731

Lin731
  • Islander
  • 4,126 posts

Posted 23 December 2006 - 08:06 PM

Quote

If someone was going to hold a "We Hate Mark" rally, I certainly wouldn't want to attend for fear of physical, and mental harm!

And if they were holding a "We hate Mark and want to exclude him from the same rights we have...oh and damn him to Hell in the process" rally, what then? Would you feel some obligation to defend yourself, your rights etc...against such an attack? See there's a difference between having a "We hate those folks" rally and a "We hate those folks, we want to condemn them and exclude them from having the same rights we have" rally. I don't think most gays gve two schznits what people like this guy think about them but they do care about people like this actively trying to exclude them from having the same rights as the rest of us.
Posted Image
Posted Image

#106 Mark

Mark
  • Islander
  • 5,269 posts

Posted 23 December 2006 - 10:28 PM

View PostLin731, on Dec 23 2006, 07:06 PM, said:

Quote

If someone was going to hold a "We Hate Mark" rally, I certainly wouldn't want to attend for fear of physical, and mental harm!

And if they were holding a "We hate Mark and want to exclude him from the same rights we have...oh and damn him to Hell in the process" rally, what then? Would you feel some obligation to defend yourself, your rights etc...against such an attack? See there's a difference between having a "We hate those folks" rally and a "We hate those folks, we want to condemn them and exclude them from having the same rights we have" rally. I don't think most gays gve two schznits what people like this guy think about them but they do care about people like this actively trying to exclude them from having the same rights as the rest of us.

Mark: Then might I suggest a peaceable counter-protest rally?
I really hope this a-hole who pushed this lady does some jail time, but as usual, I doubt there'll be any justice.  :glare:
Mark
Discussion is an exchange of knowledge: argument is an exchange of ignorance.
Peace is not the absence of conflict, but the ability to cope with it.
APOGEE MESSAGE BOARD

#107 Julianus

Julianus
  • Islander
  • 1,660 posts

Posted 23 December 2006 - 11:21 PM

This story sounded to me like a playground fight. It even made me think of a niece who, many years ago at around age two or three, told her mother, "I'm going to push her!" She was mad at a fellow daycare "student" about something. Of course one difference is with my niece we have malice aforethought. I don't know if she ended up "pushing" the intended victim, but they did end up becoming friends.
Boston just had its 72nd murder of the year, a thirteen year old shot outside a church. The kid who did the shooting is never going to become his victim's friend. No, it is not, as far as we know, about the same issue, but it is about what hate and fear can do.
http://news.bostonhe...rticleid=173618

Pardon the melodrama, but I just wanted to provide a little context for what happened vs what might have happened and what has happened over issues of sexual orientation in the past.

Edited by Julianus, 23 December 2006 - 11:38 PM.


#108 BklnScott

BklnScott

    FKA ScottEVill

  • Islander
  • 18,142 posts

Posted 24 December 2006 - 02:31 AM

View PostMark, on Dec 23 2006, 10:28 PM, said:

View PostLin731, on Dec 23 2006, 07:06 PM, said:

Quote

If someone was going to hold a "We Hate Mark" rally, I certainly wouldn't want to attend for fear of physical, and mental harm!

And if they were holding a "We hate Mark and want to exclude him from the same rights we have...oh and damn him to Hell in the process" rally, what then? Would you feel some obligation to defend yourself, your rights etc...against such an attack? See there's a difference between having a "We hate those folks" rally and a "We hate those folks, we want to condemn them and exclude them from having the same rights we have" rally. I don't think most gays gve two schznits what people like this guy think about them but they do care about people like this actively trying to exclude them from having the same rights as the rest of us.

Mark: Then might I suggest a peaceable counter-protest rally?

Isn't that exactly what they were doing?

Quote

I really hope this a-hole who pushed this lady does some jail time, but as usual, I doubt there'll be any justice.  :glare:

Apparently, misdemeanor assault & battery in Massachusetts carries no possibility of jail time.  I think it's a maximum $10,000.

Quote

There isn't enough mommy in the world to further a cause like yours!

#109 Bad Wolf

Bad Wolf

    Luck is when opportunity meets preparation

  • Islander
  • 38,881 posts

Posted 24 December 2006 - 02:00 PM

View PostAnastashia, on Dec 21 2006, 09:28 PM, said:

View PostUna Salus Lillius, on Dec 22 2006, 12:20 AM, said:

View PostAnastashia, on Dec 21 2006, 08:35 PM, said:

I'm not saying that he had a right to assault her. I'm saying that if she hadn't put herself in that position she wouldn't have been assaulted. She's an ACLU board member. She's no total innocent bystander in this. She was trying to provoke a reaction by what she did and she got it.

As to who's description of what happened is more credible, if you read my post #56 above and think about it you'll realize as I did that what she says happened is physically impossible.


Okay so, assuming that she was attacked (if she wasn't then she's a liar and does a disservice to her cause), unless you're saying that the reaction that she was trying to provoke is that she'd get assaulted, which is pretty far out there, there is no justification at all, no matter how anyone spins it, for either the guy assaulting her or for the authorities tacitly approving it.  Period.

And arguing that there is or that she bears some responsibility for being HURT is for me exactly the same as arguing that Civil Rights activists in the 60's bore some responsibility for being attacked (or killed) by people who disagreed with them.  Violence is violence.

Lil

No Lil I'm just saying that if she wasn't where she was she wouldn't have gotten hurt, that's a fact that no one can argue with. There was a perfectly viable avenue to make her point and she felt the need to go outside of that avenue. If she hadn't she wouldn't have gotten hurt. If you don't think that makes her somewhat responsible you have a right to your opinion, but you can't argue it wouldn't have happened.

I have to agree with others who don't see how you're not arguing that it's her fault.

But since you're talking in cause and effect here's another one:  If the *a$$h*le hadn't attacked her IT WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED.

Here's another one:  If there weren't fundamentalist fanatics trying to force their intolerant half baked "doctrine" on others IT WOULDN'T have happened.

And that's about all I have to say about that.

Lil
Posted Image

#110 Drew

Drew

    Josef K.

  • Islander
  • 12,191 posts

Posted 26 December 2006 - 10:44 AM

View PostD.Rabbit, on Dec 23 2006, 11:28 AM, said:

Hatred evolves through identity and elitism.
The placing of any type of word before or after the words, "I am," to quality identity or join a genre of humanity, is the impetus that conflicts us.

Yes. That makes more sense than the usual doggerel about how hatred evolves from fear. Logically, that rhetoric never made a bit of sense to me, but it was always a fine bit of smoke screen for the various "sides" to deploy.

As to the rest of your post, you're right. It seems unfair that married couples get more benefits than singles. As someone who was single until his mid-thirties, I always thought that was wrong somehow. But then it doesn't seem that the answer is to demand marriage, rather to demand fairness, whether it's from the country club, the athletic club, or the IRS. In that way you're seeking fairness for all single people rather than for just a small portion thereof. You'd also find great support among other singles regardless of sexual orientation.
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#111 Kosh

Kosh

    Criag Ferguson For President!

  • Islander
  • 11,149 posts

Posted 26 December 2006 - 12:48 PM

Quick to judge, quick to anger, slow to understand.
Ignorence and Prejudice and Fear walk hand in hand.  (Neil Peart)
Can't Touch This!!

#112 Drew

Drew

    Josef K.

  • Islander
  • 12,191 posts

Posted 26 December 2006 - 01:17 PM

View PostKosh, on Dec 26 2006, 11:48 AM, said:

Quick to judge, quick to anger, slow to understand.
Ignorence and Prejudice and Fear walk hand in hand.  (Neil Peart)

Neil Peart? Famous psychologist/sociologist?  :wink:

Seriously . . . I know fear is a common layman's analysis of prejudice -- an attempt to make sense of something that's difficult to understand -- but I never really bought it. Part of why I believe this analysis is faulty is because I think "fear" is a terribly misused term.

Fear is not just a passing emotion. Fear is a deep-down shake-you-to-the-core emotion. Your heart races, you cannot breath, you seek escape or any available savior. You are sinking and you'll cling to whatever lifeline is thrown your way. That's fear.

The problem is not "fear" . . . rather, I might call it "apathy." It's not caring about someone else. Or worse, it's devaluing another person or group, placing them lower in the pecking order than you or your group. You don't see their concerns as having any validity. You don't really care what they have to say. And that active or passive apathy toward another person or group -- or to turn it around, that complete and utter selfishness or inability to see beyond one's own interests -- is what does the damage in human relationships.

"Fear" . . . it's at best an ancillary issue. Applicable in some rare situations, but as an overarching analysis of relations between identity groups, . . . no, I don't think so.
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#113 Kosh

Kosh

    Criag Ferguson For President!

  • Islander
  • 11,149 posts

Posted 26 December 2006 - 02:34 PM

View PostDrew, on Dec 26 2006, 01:17 PM, said:

View PostKosh, on Dec 26 2006, 11:48 AM, said:

Quick to judge, quick to anger, slow to understand.
Ignorence and Prejudice and Fear walk hand in hand.  (Neil Peart)

Neil Peart? Famous psychologist/sociologist?  :wink:

Seriously . . . I know fear is a common layman's analysis of prejudice -- an attempt to make sense of something that's difficult to understand -- but I never really bought it. Part of why I believe this analysis is faulty is because I think "fear" is a terribly misused term.

Fear is not just a passing emotion. Fear is a deep-down shake-you-to-the-core emotion. Your heart races, you cannot breath, you seek escape or any available savior. You are sinking and you'll cling to whatever lifeline is thrown your way. That's fear.

The problem is not "fear" . . . rather, I might call it "apathy." It's not caring about someone else. Or worse, it's devaluing another person or group, placing them lower in the pecking order than you or your group. You don't see their concerns as having any validity. You don't really care what they have to say. And that active or passive apathy toward another person or group -- or to turn it around, that complete and utter selfishness or inability to see beyond one's own interests -- is what does the damage in human relationships.

"Fear" . . . it's at best an ancillary issue. Applicable in some rare situations, but as an overarching analysis of relations between identity groups, . . . no, I don't think so.




Quote

Fear is a deep-down shake-you-to-the-core emotion.
I think most people who "hate", fear what they don't understand. They are afraid they will become that which they fear. Islam hates us because they are afraid that their peole will become more like us then them.






Quote

Fear is not just a passing emotion. Fear is a deep-down shake-you-to-the-core emotion. Your heart races, you cannot breath, you seek escape or any available savior. You are sinking and you'll cling to whatever lifeline is thrown your way. That's fear.

I've been afraid of things without ever getting to that point. That's more like terror.



Selfishness is good too. Never thought of it that way.

Edited by Kosh, 26 December 2006 - 02:38 PM.

Can't Touch This!!

#114 Vapor Trails

Vapor Trails

    In a world where I feel so small, I can't stop thinking big.

  • Awaiting Authorisation
  • 16,523 posts

Posted 26 December 2006 - 02:46 PM

View PostDrew, on Dec 26 2006, 01:17 PM, said:

View PostKosh, on Dec 26 2006, 11:48 AM, said:

Quick to judge, quick to anger, slow to understand.
Ignorence and Prejudice and Fear walk hand in hand.  (Neil Peart)

Neil Peart? Famous psychologist/sociologist?  :wink:

Neil Peart? Never heard of him. :p~
Posted Image

Politicians are like bananas; they hang together, they're all yellow, and there's not a straight one among them.

"We're relevant for $ and a vote once every two years. Beyond that, we're completely irrelevant, except of course to consume, and preach the gospel according to [insert political demigod here]."--Cait

#115 Drew

Drew

    Josef K.

  • Islander
  • 12,191 posts

Posted 26 December 2006 - 02:50 PM

View PostDigital Man, on Dec 26 2006, 01:46 PM, said:

Neil Peart? Never heard of him. :p~

Excellent. Deprogramming completed.  :coolninja:
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: LGBT, Anti-Gay Demonstration, Hate, 2006

0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users