Jump to content


Getting an "Insecure Connection" warning for Exisle? No worry

Details in this thread

Rape charged dropped against Duke Players

Alleged Rape Duke University Charges Dropped 2006

  • Please log in to reply
59 replies to this topic

#1 Lord of the Sword

Lord of the Sword
  • Islander
  • 15,681 posts

Posted 22 December 2006 - 03:17 PM

Here's the link: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16327270/

So apparently the alledged victim has changed her story YET AGAIN! And the D.A finally realize he had no rape case. Why he is still keeping the sexual assault charge is beyond me? How is sexual assault different from rape? And Kidnapping? How in the world is he expecting to be able to prove that? Without putting her on the stand? Because if he puts her on the stand, the defense lawyers are going to tear her to shreds.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#2 GiGi

GiGi

    Lipstick wearing PIG kisser!

  • Islander
  • 8,774 posts

Posted 22 December 2006 - 03:28 PM

^ It says in the article-

Quote

Under state law, a rape charge requires vaginal intercourse, while sexual offense covers any sexual act.

"Life is as dear to a mute creature as it is to man. Just as one wants happiness and fears pain, just as one wants to live and not die, so do all creatures." -- HH The Dalai Lama

#3 Lord of the Sword

Lord of the Sword
  • Islander
  • 15,681 posts

Posted 22 December 2006 - 03:46 PM

View PostGiGi, on Dec 22 2006, 03:28 PM, said:

^ It says in the article-

Quote

Under state law, a rape charge requires vaginal intercourse, while sexual offense covers any sexual act.

Thanks. I missed that part for some reason. But then this begs the question of: If her statement about not sure if a penis was used, or pentetrated her...And that changed statement was enough to drop the rape charge...how can he still go forward with the other charge of sexual assault?
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#4 Cheile

Cheile

    proud J/Cer ~ ten years and counting

  • Islander
  • 10,776 posts

Posted 22 December 2006 - 04:30 PM

sorry, LOTS, but if the stripper skank had been white and the boys of another race, they'd STILL be locked up, whether or not she was a liar.  so i call it playing the race card against the girl because she's black/African-American.  (of course the fact that it's North Carolina doesn't help either....since only in Southern states does this racial B.S. continue)

Quote

how can he still go forward with the other charge of sexual assault?

because since the little bastards very likely molested her by way of groping she said "no" to, that's still sexual assault.

sorry but i don't buy their innocence for a second.  i for one am sick of high school and college jocks being allowed to commit crimes, often against girls/women, and either getting slaps on the wrists or off scot-free because victims and/or witnesses are harassed (in some cases...i have no doubt this girl was) and they're the "pride of the school" and other such CRAP.  it needs to stop now.

Posted Image


"Andromeda may be over but it's not dead. Not as long as we have fanfic writers dedicated to keeping it alive.  Whether you accept everything as canon or stop at a certain point. Whether you accept and enjoy Nu Drom or only accept Classic Drom, it will never be over.  Not as long as we have each other [and Beka], who binds us all together." ~ Mary Rose

Twitter * Facebook * ExIsle at Facebook

icon by mercscilla @ LJ

#5 BklnScott

BklnScott

    FKA ScottEVill

  • Islander
  • 18,142 posts

Posted 22 December 2006 - 04:48 PM

Cheile, does the lack of forensic evidence give you no pause whatsoever?  This is from the article linked above:

Quote

Last week, it was learned that DNA testing arranged by the prosecution at a private laboratory found genetic material from several men on the stripper’s underwear and body, but that none of it came from the players.


None.  That gave me a helluva lot of pause, and I had assumed they were guilty as sin.  My boss's son knows one of the three--Finnerty--and says he's quite the a$$h*le.  He also pleaded guilty to a gay-bashing in DC a couple of years back.  But if he didn't do it, then he didn't do it.

Plus, there's this:

Quote

The defense has complained that the stripper has given authorities at least a dozen different versions of her story. Among other things, she has given conflicting accounts of the number of attackers — anywhere from three to 20 — and the ways in which she was supposedly assaulted.

BTW, this has nothing to do with race.  I honestly didn't even know the accuser was black until I read your post, and I don't think it matters.  What matters, IMO, is her credibility, which is in tatters.  

No "justice system" worth the name should be able to send three young men to prison for decades based on this kind of "evidence."

Quote

There isn't enough mommy in the world to further a cause like yours!

#6 Cheile

Cheile

    proud J/Cer ~ ten years and counting

  • Islander
  • 10,776 posts

Posted 22 December 2006 - 04:54 PM

Scott, did it occur to you that they likely used condoms?  rapists as a whole are getting WAY smarter these days.  they know it's far less likely they'll get caught if they rape their victim(s) while protected.

as for her story changing, i would think trauma of the experience would do that.  especially with the number of jocks who were at that party.  if someone is being attacked by, say, three and there's five, six, ten others standing around cheering them on, or guys taking turns watching the attack, how is one supposed to keep count?  if i were in that position i'd be concentrating more on fighting off the ones who had their hands on me then trying to keep count of how many bastards were in the room/house in the first place.

and i have to ask how did you not know she was black....that was one of the big things in this case about how a black girl was accusing white lacrosse players.

Edited by Cheile, 22 December 2006 - 04:55 PM.

Posted Image


"Andromeda may be over but it's not dead. Not as long as we have fanfic writers dedicated to keeping it alive.  Whether you accept everything as canon or stop at a certain point. Whether you accept and enjoy Nu Drom or only accept Classic Drom, it will never be over.  Not as long as we have each other [and Beka], who binds us all together." ~ Mary Rose

Twitter * Facebook * ExIsle at Facebook

icon by mercscilla @ LJ

#7 Hibblette

Hibblette
  • Islander
  • 4,228 posts

Posted 22 December 2006 - 04:55 PM

This was a bungled up mess just like the basketball player in Colorado.

You have young women going to places that are populated by males who think they can get away with anything-which obviously they can.

I believe something happened here but because of the hysterics of the young woman ... you guys just don't understand how the mental capacity of a victim of rape is also compromised.  

Big sigh.

I wish this had never been whipped into the media attention it was whipped into.  On both party's side.
"There are many ways of going forward, but there is only one way of standing still."  FDR explaining why Liberals are so often divided and Conservatives are so often united.

"I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat."  Will Rogers

#8 schoolpsycho

schoolpsycho
  • Islander
  • 893 posts

Posted 22 December 2006 - 05:11 PM

Quote

the defense lawyers are going to tear her to shreds.

The defense ripped her to shreds from day one. Granted, the prosecution didn't help matters with the way they handled this case, but the defense did one of the greatest hatchet jobs ever.

Quote

If her statement about not sure if a penis was used, or pentetrated her...And that changed statement was enough to drop the rape charge...how can he still go forward with the other charge of sexual assault?

If they threatened to, or said they were going to touch her in an inappropriate way, that's sexual assault, and if they did, in any way, that's sexual battery. So, you don't have to prove rape in order to prove sexual assualt and battery.

Quote

sorry but i don't buy their innocence for a second. i for one am sick of high school and college jocks being allowed to commit crimes, often against girls/women, and either getting slaps on the wrists or off scot-free because victims and/or witnesses are harassed (in some cases...i have no doubt this girl was) and they're the "pride of the school" and other such CRAP. it needs to stop now.

Agreed. And I go back to this. If they're so innocent, why did they all get out of there like a bat out of hell the second they heard sirens? Why were the police called in the first place? Why were there witnesses who say that there were things said in and around that house that wreaked of fishy? Why was there a witness there that said this woman looked like she needed help, and he wished he had hepled sooner when he heard things from that house?

We may not know everything, but we know something happened in that house, and I guarantee you the lacrosse players aren't gonna tell everything.

sp
Love is hard...and all there is.

#9 BklnScott

BklnScott

    FKA ScottEVill

  • Islander
  • 18,142 posts

Posted 22 December 2006 - 05:24 PM

View PostCheile, on Dec 22 2006, 04:54 PM, said:

Scott, did it occur to you that they likely used condoms?  rapists as a whole are getting WAY smarter these days.  they know it's far less likely they'll get caught if they rape their victim(s) while protected.

Of course it occured to me -- but when they say they found no DNA evidence linking them to the crime, that would by definition include hair.  

Quote

as for her story changing, i would think trauma of the experience would do that.

Her story has changed on numerous occasions.  I'm well aware of the trauma such an experience can cause -- very well aware, in fact.  But now she says she isn't sure they actually penetrated her.  Come on -- Gimme a break.  How many "do overs" does she get?  

Quote

and i have to ask how did you not know she was black....that was one of the big things in this case about how a black girl was accusing white lacrosse players.

I dunno, maybe I knew and forgot, but -- again -- this isn't about race.  It's about the credibility of the accuser.

Edited by ScottEVill, 22 December 2006 - 05:25 PM.

Quote

There isn't enough mommy in the world to further a cause like yours!

#10 Lord of the Sword

Lord of the Sword
  • Islander
  • 15,681 posts

Posted 22 December 2006 - 06:25 PM

View PostCheile, on Dec 22 2006, 04:54 PM, said:

Scott, did it occur to you that they likely used condoms?  rapists as a whole are getting WAY smarter these days.  they know it's far less likely they'll get caught if they rape their victim(s) while protected.

Except for one little thing: DNA. There WAS DNA collected from her. That DNA did NOT match any of the Duke Players. Not one. So she did have sex with someone, just not any of the players. Except maybe for the black Duke player, since his DNA was never collected.

That little fact kills the whole: "They used condoms" defense right there.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#11 Lord of the Sword

Lord of the Sword
  • Islander
  • 15,681 posts

Posted 22 December 2006 - 06:29 PM

View PostCheile, on Dec 22 2006, 04:30 PM, said:

because since the little bastards very likely molested her by way of groping she said "no" to, that's still sexual assault.

Alright, I can concede that. IF that happened. Of course it does nothing to explain how one of the people she has accused has a airtight alibi...namely him on the security camera of a ATM at the time that she claimed this assault happened.

Then there is his campus card being used to open up the door to his dorm, shortly after he was at the ATM.

But there will still be those that will claim: "He had a friend that used that card." all in the defense of this woman who had not only changed her story, several times, but who also failed to ID these three men the first time she looked at the photos...then said: "This one looks like him, except he had a mustache." And that player, Evans, didn't have a mustache. Photos before and after that day prove that.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#12 Lord of the Sword

Lord of the Sword
  • Islander
  • 15,681 posts

Posted 22 December 2006 - 06:32 PM

View PostScottEVill, on Dec 22 2006, 05:24 PM, said:

Come on -- Gimme a break.  How many "do overs" does she get?

According to Nifong....as many as she wants.

I wonder how this has affected the college? Cause I know that the college basically just threw these boys to the wolf...Nifong in this case...all based on the flimsiest of evidence. It didn't protect them at all...So anyone going to that college needs to be aware that the college, on the say so of anybody, will throw you to the wolves...ruin your reputation, ect. I know I wouldn't send a child there.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#13 eechick

eechick
  • Islander
  • 4,219 posts

Posted 22 December 2006 - 07:41 PM

I watched CourtTV for a few hours today.  

According to the woman, condoms were not used by the guys at the house.  DNA from 5 guys, not on the team, were found on her.  The DA had his first conversation with her within the past few days.  The DA had an agreement with the DNA expert, that evidence showing that the DNA of the 3 players was not present, to the defense.

It's a mess.

#14 Lord of the Sword

Lord of the Sword
  • Islander
  • 15,681 posts

Posted 22 December 2006 - 07:53 PM

View Posteechick, on Dec 22 2006, 07:41 PM, said:

It's a mess.

It's beyond that. Nifong only pursued this case to help him get re elected. IMO he NEEDS to be disbarred! And if at all possible, thrown in jail. Ruining the lives of innocent people, to further his own political agenda...Guess that's what it means to be Nifonged!
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#15 Chipper

Chipper

    Give it up

  • Islander
  • 5,202 posts

Posted 22 December 2006 - 08:15 PM

Nifong is just digging his career grave here.  Much of this hoopla was done for reelection, no doubt.  Durham is a heavily African American neighborhood; the only part that isn't is the richer areas around Duke University.

The problem here is that this testimony has changed one to many times, and there is nothing and more importantly NOBODY at all to corroborate this woman's story.  The other stripper's story has been opposite to the accuser's since day one, evidence clearly not linking one of the accused to the house at the time the supposed "rape" (now sexual assault) occurred has existed since the early days of the investigation, etc.  I don't think that the lacrosse players didn't objectify these women and not respect them, but then again, they are strippers.  However, I do not believe that sexual assault happened.

The worse part about this is that innocent people's names have been dragged through the mud, the team and the school as well, when no, I do not believe they deserve it.  Yes, there is a 'lacrosse' culture and no, it isn't the classiest, but for the most part these are decent guys.  Regarding the gay-bashing issue Scott mentioned above, I know one of the other guys involved in that (another lax player) and he had to deal with a lot of heat because sentencing happened right after this whole issue broke out.  Other lacrosse schools have been targeted and it's a mess.

Nifong has no case.  He should be disbarred.
"Courtesy is how we got civilized. The blind assertion of rights is what threatens to decivilize us. Everybody's got lots of rights that are set out legally. Responsibilities are not enumerated, for good reason, but they are set into the social fabric. Is it such a sacrifice to not be an a**hole?"

- Jenny Smith on Usenet, via Jid, via Kathy

#16 BklnScott

BklnScott

    FKA ScottEVill

  • Islander
  • 18,142 posts

Posted 22 December 2006 - 08:29 PM

View PostLORD of the SWORD, on Dec 22 2006, 06:32 PM, said:

View PostScottEVill, on Dec 22 2006, 05:24 PM, said:

  Come on -- Gimme a break.  How many "do overs" does she get?

According to Nifong....as many as she wants.

I wonder how this has affected the college? Cause I know that the college basically just threw these boys to the wolf...Nifong in this case...all based on the flimsiest of evidence. It didn't protect them at all...So anyone going to that college needs to be aware that the college, on the say so of anybody, will throw you to the wolves...ruin your reputation, ect. I know I wouldn't send a child there.

OK, here we diverge, LoTS -- What "protection" do you think the college should have offered them?

Quote

There isn't enough mommy in the world to further a cause like yours!

#17 G1223

G1223

    The Blunt Object.

  • Dead account
  • 16,164 posts

Posted 22 December 2006 - 09:38 PM

Maybe not jumping on the side of the accused till say after a verdict of guilty?

Sure maybe suspend the players from playing but stop the press from hounding them on campus.

Stop making noise about policy changes till it's clear that there was a violation of the law.

I am glad the school has deep pockets as they seemed to judge these men and were wrong in doing so.

Edited by G1223, 22 December 2006 - 10:58 PM.

If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#18 Lord of the Sword

Lord of the Sword
  • Islander
  • 15,681 posts

Posted 22 December 2006 - 09:52 PM

View PostScottEVill, on Dec 22 2006, 08:29 PM, said:

OK, here we diverge, LoTS -- What "protection" do you think the college should have offered them?

G pretty much answered as I would've. Basically this school tried, convicted, and threw these innocent men to the media. They acted as if the players were guilty before any evidence was presented, except for the alledged victim's sotry...that kept changing.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#19 Broph

Broph
  • Islander
  • 6,671 posts

Posted 22 December 2006 - 10:16 PM

View PostCheile, on Dec 22 2006, 09:30 PM, said:

sorry, LOTS, but if the stripper skank had been white and the boys of another race, they'd STILL be locked up, whether or not she was a liar.  so i call it playing the race card against the girl because she's black/African-American.  (of course the fact that it's North Carolina doesn't help either....since only in Southern states does this racial B.S. continue)

As long as we're not playing the skank card, because that would be wrong.

#20 Rov Judicata

Rov Judicata

    Crassly Irresponsible and Indifferent

  • Islander
  • 15,720 posts

Posted 22 December 2006 - 10:39 PM

As it stands now, we can be very confident that these men are not guilty (note that I said 'not guilty' instead of 'innocent'). We can also be sure that she lied to the police; her constantly-changing story is inconsistent with the notion that  she's been telling the truth all along. Logically, she must have lied at least once.

The fact, then, that these students have had their names dragged through the mud and the media is protecting her identity is outrageous.
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. § 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Alleged Rape, Duke University, Charges Dropped, 2006

0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users