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Rape charged dropped against Duke Players

Alleged Rape Duke University Charges Dropped 2006

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#21 Tricia

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Posted 22 December 2006 - 11:43 PM

Not sure what to make of this.  

Initially I was inclined to believe her as there seemed to be evidence proving that something happened.

Then came the contradictions to the story.

To say that she totally lied may be overreaching here tho.  Something may have happened.  maybe with the lacrosse team, maybe with other person or persons.  We don't know there was no assault.  

Another theory could be that she was dazed, confused, whatever from an assault and got mixed up, had a flashback from another incident...who know? ( and it does happen when shock is involved sometimes) ....and maybe the DA jumped on this as  a way to get re-elected/make a name for himself prosecuting college athletes.

It was said on the news tonight that she was shown only pictures of lacrosse team members.  Which is like being given a multiple choice test with no possible wrong answers....ie no other  choices than those that the DA wanted to hear perhaps.

Anybody else think that maybe once she started telling her story...and perhaps working herself into realizing what the truth was (presuming that she as assaulted in some way by someone)....that maybe the DA's office tried to convince her that she was remembering wrong in order to keep the case going?

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#22 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 23 December 2006 - 02:01 AM

View Posttrikay, on Dec 22 2006, 11:43 PM, said:

that maybe the DA's office tried to convince her that she was remembering wrong in order to keep the case going?

Wouldn't surprise me in the least. I swear, I'm starting to wonder if Nifong is related to Bush...neither seems able to admit when they've screwed up and made a mistake.
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#23 Hibblette

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Posted 23 December 2006 - 11:03 AM

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Anybody else think that maybe once she started telling her story...and perhaps working herself into realizing what the truth was (presuming that she as assaulted in some way by someone)....that maybe the DA's office tried to convince her that she was remembering wrong in order to keep the case going?

That's what I'm thinking.

I do think this girl went through something...It's such a hard thing sometimes to fathom even if you're just being cornered in a particular situation-it's hard sometimes to fathom that it's happening to you.
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#24 Cheile

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Posted 23 December 2006 - 03:31 PM

View PostScottEVill, on Dec 22 2006, 02:24 PM, said:

I dunno, maybe I knew and forgot, but -- again -- this isn't about race.  It's about the credibility of the accuser.

of course it's not supposed to be about race; it's supposed to be about getting a rape victim some justice.  but in a Southern state where racism is still practiced, condoned and permitted, you can bet it factors in in its own subtle way.

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#25 G1223

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Posted 23 December 2006 - 04:23 PM

Except the rape victim seems to be changing her story about what happened. And the actual evidence is not backing up her claim anywhere along the line.

Or is it She said she is raped their is no proof that the people she accued did it but they are accused so must be punished?

Do we want justice to be totally based on she said she was raped?
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#26 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 23 December 2006 - 06:57 PM

View PostCheile, on Dec 23 2006, 03:31 PM, said:

of course it's not supposed to be about race; it's supposed to be about getting a rape victim some justice.  but in a Southern state where racism is still practiced, condoned and permitted, you can bet it factors in in its own subtle way.

If you want to talk about race...If the races had been reversed, and the ALLEDGED victim had been white, there would be no way in hell that this DA would've lined up all the black members of the team, taken DNA samples, ect...There would be no way that would have happened. The NAACP, as well as the ACLU would've been screaming bloody murder.

But, because it was a black girl accusing white men...it's ok to line up every white in the area, take DNA, ect...and when that DNA doesn't match, and the alledged victim's sotry changes, repeatedly...as does the story of the other stripper...then still charge them. Yep, it's OK to be racist against whites apparently.

Do you still want to try and make this case all about race?
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#27 BklnScott

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Posted 24 December 2006 - 02:45 AM

View PostCheile, on Dec 23 2006, 03:31 PM, said:

View PostScottEVill, on Dec 22 2006, 02:24 PM, said:

I dunno, maybe I knew and forgot, but -- again -- this isn't about race.  It's about the credibility of the accuser.

of course it's not supposed to be about race; it's supposed to be about getting a rape victim some justice.  but in a Southern state where racism is still practiced, condoned and permitted, you can bet it factors in in its own subtle way.

It's only justice if they punish the men who actually raped her, agreed?  

If these three men did it, then all three of them managed to do so without leaving any DNA evidence.  Three of them rape her, and not one of them leaves a single hair.

And it's not that there was no DNA evidence, either.  There was plenty, but none of it was left by these three men.

Think about it.

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#28 Cheile

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Posted 24 December 2006 - 03:46 AM

View PostLORD of the SWORD, on Dec 23 2006, 03:57 PM, said:

If you want to talk about race...If the races had been reversed, and the ALLEDGED victim had been white, there would be no way in hell that this DA would've lined up all the black members of the team, taken DNA samples, ect...There would be no way that would have happened. The NAACP, as well as the ACLU would've been screaming bloody murder.

says your opinion.  that doesn't prove that it would happen.

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But, because it was a black girl accusing white men...it's ok to line up every white in the area, take DNA, ect

they took the DNA of those at the PARTY.  is it the victim's fault most of the lacrosse team is white?  hardly.

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Yep, it's OK to be racist against whites apparently.

yea i'm racist against my own race because i choose not to believe the little bastards are pure and innocent.  i find that funny.

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#29 G1223

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Posted 24 December 2006 - 10:40 AM

No one said they were pure. But innocent unless you have more than her saying they did it as the basis for that feeling they are guilty that is exactly what the law says they are.

There is  NO DNA from the accused. Not one bit. No body hair. No sperm. No bite marks to show they bit her or she bit any of them.

So what shall we do? Find them guilty of rape based on her say so alone?

Take into account her story has changed time and again. As well as that of her friend. See you had to remind that she was black. That does not change that there is a great deal of evidence that is lacking here.
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#30 Godeskian

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Posted 24 December 2006 - 01:32 PM

Reasonable doubt exists for a reason.

I doubt very much these jocks are innocent, but that is far cry from believing them to be guilty of this specific crime. And lest we forget, this specific crime is the one they've been accused of comitting.

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#31 Cheile

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Posted 24 December 2006 - 03:32 PM

View PostG1223, on Dec 24 2006, 07:40 AM, said:

There is  NO DNA from the accused. Not one bit. No body hair. No sperm. No bite marks to show they bit her or she bit any of them.

i could swear i read somewhere that they might have made her bathe afterwards.  if i recall correctly and that did happen, there's your lack of DNA.  if i recall wrong, then i say they got lucky.


Quote

Take into account her story has changed time and again.

yea and how many times a day was she harassed by the defense attorneys demanding her story be told 290823089259745 times?  when you're that harassed and stressed from such trauma, your story won't be the same each time.

this is why a lot of rape victims can never get justice.  they're automatically liars if everything doesn't line up just right to the satisfaction of the cops and attorneys of the attackers like it does on an episode of SVU.

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#32 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 24 December 2006 - 04:15 PM

View PostCheile, on Dec 24 2006, 03:32 PM, said:

i could swear i read somewhere that they might have made her bathe afterwards.  if i recall correctly and that did happen, there's your lack of DNA.  if i recall wrong, then i say they got lucky.

Even if that were true, it wouldn't matter...Since they still managed to collect DNA from 5 other men...none of whom were the Duke Players. If they had sexually assaulted and raped her their DNA would be there....along with the other 5 men.
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#33 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 24 December 2006 - 04:21 PM

View PostCheile, on Dec 24 2006, 03:46 AM, said:

says your opinion.  that doesn't prove that it would happen.

Well the only way to prove what I KNOW in my gut would happen, would be for a white girl to be raped and accuse 3 black men...And I wouldn't wish rape on anyone. So I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on whether or not the NAACP would scream bloody murder if a DA lined up all the black players of a team, took DNA, ect...based on the report of one alledged victim...who even in the beginning kept changing her story.

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yea i'm racist against my own race because i choose not to believe the little bastards are pure and innocent.  i find that funny.

I never said these men were pure....But I do believe they are innocent. Sorry, you can choose to believe a stripper who constantly is changing her story, has accused 3 other men of the same crime in the past, and whose friend also changed her story several times...But as for me, I chose to believe the people whose story has never, not once, waivered. One of whom has a airtight alibi, namely him on a ATM camera at the time the alledged victim claimed this happened....

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this whole case.
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Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

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#34 Hibblette

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Posted 24 December 2006 - 05:06 PM

View PostCheile, on Dec 24 2006, 02:32 PM, said:

View PostG1223, on Dec 24 2006, 07:40 AM, said:

There is  NO DNA from the accused. Not one bit. No body hair. No sperm. No bite marks to show they bit her or she bit any of them.

i could swear i read somewhere that they might have made her bathe afterwards.  if i recall correctly and that did happen, there's your lack of DNA.  if i recall wrong, then i say they got lucky.


Quote

Take into account her story has changed time and again.

yea and how many times a day was she harassed by the defense attorneys demanding her story be told 290823089259745 times?  when you're that harassed and stressed from such trauma, your story won't be the same each time.

this is why a lot of rape victims can never get justice.  they're automatically liars if everything doesn't line up just right to the satisfaction of the cops and attorneys of the attackers like it does on an episode of SVU.

They found DNA but it wasn't the players.

This whole thing was a mess from the players running and stonewalling to the DA acting like a total...

Anyways what a mess.
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#35 Tricia

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Posted 24 December 2006 - 06:20 PM

Cheile....

I wanted to believe her too.  I did not nor do I want to believe that any woman would lie about being raped.

In fact, some part of me still believes that something happened to her.  But not as sure that it was these lacrosse players who did it.  Maybe she had a flashback to whatever  happened occurred or something previously and go confused. I don't know. I'd like to give her the benefit of the doubt on that.

(BTW nothing I read about this case ever said that she was forced to clean up by her attackers but that she did admit to taking a shower once she got to her own home.  By her own choice)  

Also we do not know which details of her story changed.  Obviously, it must have been some dramatic changes not just minor details.  I know the memory can be fuzzy on some details when one is in shock only to become clearer later after some time has passed.  

So now that she remembers or things are clearer that the DA choices to make this all her fault when they perhaps jumped the gun too fast on arresting and charging anyone.  Before test results where in, before enough investigation was done.

And additionally I heard them say something on the news that I am not sure of....that this announcement of the drop or reduiction of charges came after the victim said that she would not nor could she testify that a rape had occurred...only that she was sexually assaulted.

These guys may be guilty of something....arrogance, violence against other persons (the one who was charged with gay-bashing), just plain old being party hearty jerks....but now by the victims own account they did not rape her.

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#36 G1223

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Posted 24 December 2006 - 06:47 PM

View Posttrikay, on Dec 24 2006, 06:20 PM, said:

These guys may be guilty of something....arrogance, violence against other persons (the one who was charged with gay-bashing), just plain old being party hearty jerks....but now by the victims own account they did not rape her.

Well except for the gay bashing (Which I see the person was charged) None of the other charges count as criminal acts.
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#37 Tricia

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Posted 24 December 2006 - 07:00 PM

^^^^

And I did not say that the things I mentioned were criminal acts, G. :rolleyes:

I was just saying that no matter what else they had done or how they acted in other situations.....that they were not guilty or presumed innocent of these charges.  Or that there is a lack of evidence to prove it.

The fact is that many times someone can behave badly....not necessarily anything illegal...or be a jerk.  And often athletes---- be they professional, college level or high school---seem to get away with things that the ordinary person does not.  

Someone can be three kinds of a jerk but if they did not do this specific crime then they should not do the time for it.

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#38 BklnScott

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Posted 28 December 2006 - 10:26 AM

View PostLORD of the SWORD, on Dec 24 2006, 04:15 PM, said:

View PostCheile, on Dec 24 2006, 03:32 PM, said:


i could swear i read somewhere that they might have made her bathe afterwards.  if i recall correctly and that did happen, there's your lack of DNA.  if i recall wrong, then i say they got lucky.

Even if that were true, it wouldn't matter...Since they still managed to collect DNA from 5 other men...none of whom were the Duke Players. If they had sexually assaulted and raped her their DNA would be there....along with the other 5 men.

This is an important point -- Thanks (to yourself, and to Hibblette) for stressing it.  Scrubbing her clean of *their* DNA while leaving that of 5 other men (whom she presumably had sex with prior to the alleged rape) would not be luck.  It would be miraculous.

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#39 G1223

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Posted 29 December 2006 - 12:13 PM

Guess who is actually being brought up on ethics charges?  And it Ain't the accused players.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

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#40 Bad Wolf

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Posted 29 December 2006 - 12:42 PM

LOTS when you say things like "how is sexual assault different from rape" it pretty much flabbergasts me.  Maybe you ought to look up a couple of definitions or something.  There IS a difference.

Anyways yeah I noticed that the D.A. is being accused of unethical conduct.

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