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Saddam Hussein To Die in 30 Days

Iraq Saddam Hussein Execution in 30 days 2006

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#101 Redshirt #24

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Posted 01 January 2007 - 09:18 AM

Being in the Army at the time...let's just say (though I suppose it's almost common knowledge now) that they backed away at about the absolutely last minute from dispatching Saddam back in '91.  The known-quantity thing is the only thing that seems to make any sense, even now.

As for his finally being dispatched...I suppose we were screwed either way at that point, letting him live as a martyr-in-imprisonment or being a more traditional dead martyr, so I'm not losing any sleep over their (finally) choosing door number two.

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Now can we have a new word associated with Iraq?
Unfortunately, probably not yet...they can still milk this for a bit.

#102 SparkyCola

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Posted 01 January 2007 - 09:28 AM

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^True DM, I'll always be anti-DP, fair trial or not, even in the case of Saddam Hussein.
Call me biased.... but I think anyone who doesn't believe Saddam should be executed should have to listen to the stories of a few hundred of his victims families.... And then stand there and explain why Saddam shouldn't be killed.

It'd be a interesting learning experience on how the real world operates. And that the world really isn't warm, cuddly, or nice. That some people do forfeit their right to life.

I'm honestly not sure this dignifies a response. Thankfully Godeskian did it for me.

For the most part I agree with what Gode, Scott and Lil said. And DM when he says we should all just agree to disagree, considering how many times we've been over this. But DM and G and others aren't making it personal, CJ, and you are.

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I think it shows a certain naivetivity regarding just how nasty some people are and how they are too dangerous to keep around. As for bordering on arrogant its no more arrogant than someone who has never suffered under Saddam thinking that they can tell the Iraqis that they are doing the wrong thing with Saddam after they give him a fair trial in he eyes of most experts. The experts who are complaining about this trial are either the internationalist whackjobs like Ramsey Clark who would support any tinpot dictator as long as they stand against the US or they are rabidly anti-death penalty and would find something wrong with the trial no matter what. I think one of the more telling things for me was listening to an exiled Iraqi who works for Amnesty International as anti-death penalty advocate. She had to fess up the interviewer and admit she supported the sentence for Saddam after seeing the personal impact he had on people around her. Hopefully most anti-death penalty people can go through life without having that touch of the harsher world take someone from them in the form of violent crime or the act of a mad man. That said I'd still like to see anti-death penalty people have to explain their stance to the families of Saddam victims in person and actually put their money where there mouth is.

Funny, I think it's naive (as well as offensive) to presume I have put forward such a strong point opinion without having thoroughly thought it through beforehand. What's more interesting is that you tell me I'm arrogant for putting forward an opinion because I'm not Iraqi. And here I was all this time assuming you were American, CJ, you never told us YOU were suffering under Saddam's regime. Or do you just mean that people (who are not Iraqi) who don't agree with you, can't put forward a view whilst still being intelligent or thoughtful human beings? And you call me arrogant?

No one is even implying Saddam is innocent, don't try to throw that in there as though it's relevant.

My opinion that the death penalty is wrong on many levels does not depend on judging the level of the crime. Therefore, it doesn't matter about the person in question. I've covered this ground about 50 zillion times on the OT so I'm pretty sure most people here at least KNOW my view even if they don't understand it or agree with it. I think you're not exactly a newbie here either CJ so I guess you just weren't paying attention before. Well go back and read cos I ain't typing it again.

Besides, Scott already did it very well.

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#103 scherzo

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Posted 01 January 2007 - 04:33 PM

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As bad a person as Saddam was, there was more than a whiff of Vercingetorix in the whole circus
The whole place reeked of it! Saddam's lawyer tried to get him to use a less pungent styling gel, but the man insisted Vercingetorix made him look like George Clooney.  :dontgetit:

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#104 MuseZack

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Posted 01 January 2007 - 06:30 PM

Actually, I have to modify my earlier statement.  There's no way the Romans at the height of their power would have presided over a spectacle this shabby and seemingly designed to widen the sectarian divide in Iraq:

The unofficial video of the execution, filmed on the mobile cell phone of one of the officials present is sure to further inflame sectarianism, because it is clearly a Shia execution. Men are heard talking, one of them is called Ali. As the executioners argue over how to best position the rope on his neck Saddam calls out to god, saying, "ya Allah." Referring to Shias, one official says "those who pray for Muhamad and the family of Muhamad have won!" Others triumphantly respond in the Shia chant: "Our God prays for Muhamad and the family of Muhamad." Others then add the part chanted by supporters of Muqtada al Sadr: "And speed his (the Mahdi's) return! And damn his enemies! And make his son victorious! Muqtada! Muqtada! Muqtada!"

Saddam then smiles and says something mocking about Muqtada. "Muqtada! It is this..." but the rest is blocked by the voices of officials saying "ila jahanam," or "go to Hell." Saddam looks down and says "Is this your manhood...?" As the rope is put around Saddam's neck somebody shouts "long live Muhamad Baqir al Sadr!" referring to an important Shia cleric who founded the Dawa Party and was also Muqtada's relative. Baqir al Sadr was executed by Saddam in 1980. He is venerated by all three major Shia movements in Iraq, the Dawa, the Sadrists and the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq. Others insult Saddam. One man asks them to stop: "I beg you, I beg you, the man is being executed!" Saddam then says the Shahada, or testimony, that there is no god but Allah and Muhamad is his prophet. When he tries to say it again the trap door opens and he falls through to be hung. One man then shouts that "the tyranny has ended!" and others call out triumphal Shia chants. Somebody wants to remove the rope from his neck but is told to wait eight minutes.


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#105 Nonny

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 02:17 PM

I was ambivalent about the death penalty for a long time.  I don't like it, but I do believe that some criminals deserve to pay the ultimate price, but where to draw the line?  And how to avoid mistakes in determining guilt?  Then along came Dead Man Walking, and I had to throw in in favor.  All that the clips from the movie inspired in me was concern for how the families of the victims of that monster were dealing with it.  I know I would have broken all over again from the barrage of misdirected love.  I watched the first five minutes of a PBS interview with the nun portrayed in the movie, just to see if she was different from the nuns of my unfortunate grade school experience, and no, she was just another angry zealot of a victim-blaming nun with a soft spot for bad boys, glorifying them as if they really are the redeemable heroes of those bodice rippers with Fabio on the cover.  Her face looked just as grim and angry as the face of Sister Muriel that day that she lit into the girls of her 7th grade class and, thank goodness, since I never could have survived her, my 7th grade class, brought together to be bullied, browbeaten and informed that every sin the boys would ever commit would be our fault.  What a cow!  And what a liar.  The nun portrayed in Dead Man Walking is one of her ilk, and so I had to dig a lot deeper to find a reason to want to end the death penalty completely, and I couldn't.  

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#106 Spectacles

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 04:34 PM

View PostMuseZack, on Jan 1 2007, 06:30 PM, said:

Actually, I have to modify my earlier statement.  There's no way the Romans at the height of their power would have presided over a spectacle this shabby and seemingly designed to widen the sectarian divide in Iraq:

The unofficial video of the execution, filmed on the mobile cell phone of one of the officials present is sure to further inflame sectarianism, because it is clearly a Shia execution. Men are heard talking, one of them is called Ali. As the executioners argue over how to best position the rope on his neck Saddam calls out to god, saying, "ya Allah." Referring to Shias, one official says "those who pray for Muhamad and the family of Muhamad have won!" Others triumphantly respond in the Shia chant: "Our God prays for Muhamad and the family of Muhamad." Others then add the part chanted by supporters of Muqtada al Sadr: "And speed his (the Mahdi's) return! And damn his enemies! And make his son victorious! Muqtada! Muqtada! Muqtada!"

Saddam then smiles and says something mocking about Muqtada. "Muqtada! It is this..." but the rest is blocked by the voices of officials saying "ila jahanam," or "go to Hell." Saddam looks down and says "Is this your manhood...?" As the rope is put around Saddam's neck somebody shouts "long live Muhamad Baqir al Sadr!" referring to an important Shia cleric who founded the Dawa Party and was also Muqtada's relative. Baqir al Sadr was executed by Saddam in 1980. He is venerated by all three major Shia movements in Iraq, the Dawa, the Sadrists and the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq. Others insult Saddam. One man asks them to stop: "I beg you, I beg you, the man is being executed!" Saddam then says the Shahada, or testimony, that there is no god but Allah and Muhamad is his prophet. When he tries to say it again the trap door opens and he falls through to be hung. One man then shouts that "the tyranny has ended!" and others call out triumphal Shia chants. Somebody wants to remove the rope from his neck but is told to wait eight minutes.


http://www.iraqslogg..._Hanging_Saddam

Yep. This execution, because of the way it was carried out, is going to do nothing to lessen sectarian violence in Iraq. Quite the contrary. Even Sunnis who were fed up with the insurgents and wanted to give the political process a chance will buy out of it now. Can't say as I blame them.
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#107 Anastashia

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 06:46 PM

There's now going to be an investigation of the filming and taunting.
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#108 Godeskian

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 07:16 PM

The cynic in me says the 'investigation' is going to lead to the 'accidental' fatal shooting of the person who took the film. After all, the Iraqi goverment seemed happy enough with the videofootage before sound was added.

Edited by Godeskian, 02 January 2007 - 07:17 PM.

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#109 Spectacles

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 07:42 PM

Yeah, I think they're primarily interested in finding out who made the cellphone movie that recorded it all and revealed that this was not a dispassionate state execution but a sectarian lynching. The identities of the taunters shouldn't require any investigation at all. They know who the guards were.
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#110 Lin731

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 09:27 PM

Sad to say (given what a miserable POS Saddam was and how deserving of his fate he happened to be) but he died with more dignity than his executioners killed him with. Youtube has the entire video and some of the people I work with were watching it. Looked like a bunch of murderous thugs killing another murderous thug. It's one thing to carry out the law, quite another to do so in such an unprofessional way. Saddam earned the hangmen's noose but the people I watched in that video may well earn (or already have earned) their way to a noose of their very own. Chanting for that murderous Al Sadir, a man no better in many respects than Saddam was but he happenes to be a Shia not a Sunni. Apparently there are no definitions for irony or hypocrisy in Iraqi dictionaries.
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#111 MuseZack

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 11:18 PM

I read somewhere that Saddam's "Muqtada?" followed by "Is this your manhood?" taunt to the militiamen was actually him getting in one last dig by referring to the widespread rumor in Iraq that Muqtada al-Sadr is secretly gay.  It was the equivalent of him saying "Muqtada?  Is that your boyfriend?  Neener neener neener..."  which isn't all that elegant, but probably better than most of us could manage when facing a bunch of guys in ski masks and a noose.  Monstrous Saddam and his progeny were, but one has to admit they didn't lack a certain bravado in the face of death.  Even his 14 year old grandson went out with an AK-47 in his his hands back when we took down Uday and Qusay.  Wanna bet they were all big Scarface fans?
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#112 Vapor Trails

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 11:27 PM

View PostMuseZack, on Jan 3 2007, 11:18 PM, said:

I read somewhere that Saddam's "Muqtada?" followed by "Is this your manhood?" taunt to the militiamen was actually him getting in one last dig by referring to the widespread rumor in Iraq that Muqtada al-Sadr is secretly gay.  It was the equivalent of him saying "Muqtada?  Is that your boyfriend?  Neener neener neener..."  which isn't all that elegant, but probably better than most of us could manage when facing a bunch of guys in ski masks and a noose.  Monstrous Saddam and his progeny were, but one has to admit they didn't lack a certain bravado in the face of death.  Even his 14 year old grandson went out with an AK-47 in his his hands back when we took down Uday and Qusay.  Wanna bet they were all big Scarface fans?


Yeah...when I saw the video, Saddam was almost chuckling when he repeated Muqtada's name. If there was any fear at all in Saddam, he hid it pretty damn well.

As I said-at least he'll serve use as fertilizer for the flowers. :eh:
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#113 Rhea

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 11:59 PM

View PostUna Salus Lillius, on Dec 31 2006, 10:30 AM, said:

View PostG1223, on Dec 31 2006, 09:56 AM, said:

As has been said time and again no one that I know of on the proside of the penalty is saying kill a single innocent person. But we are saying that when ALL reasonable doudt is exausted that if a person is found guilty of murder that we be willing to move forward with that part of the punishment.

Not quite the case for me. At least on a theoretical basis (practically is another story because it's so badly administered in this country) if a certain kind of crime is committed, and there is NO doubt of guilt I believe in the death penalty, not as a deterrent, but because society has malignant things that sometimes just need to be removed.

As for Saddam: I'm disgusted. Dubbaya decided to make this guy the poster child for terrorism (erm..wasn't it Osama that orchestrated 9-11???). So now he's the guy the terrorists rally behind thank's to THIS ADMINISTRATIONS'S bogus ad campaign, and then THIS ADMINISTRATION arranges for the guy to become a martyr. Yipee. What a SMART move. (sarcasm). But aside from that the US media's feeding frenzy is in worse taste than OJ's lates book. I was watching some news thingie after the execution and the gleam in this female reporter's eyes as she asked the guy in Iraq if there was a video and if it would be released. I mean EWWWWWWWWW. I guess there's a reason for the success of slasher films like Saw. There is a significant portion of this population that enjoys watching other people die horribly and it really is horrible. Yuck.



How else has the Jerry Springer survived all these years if not because of sheer bloodlust? :eek: :p

I'm not at all surprised at how many people wanted to see Saddam die. If we reinstituted public hangings I'm sure there'd be a contingent who would turn out and eat popcorn. :barf:
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#114 Spectacles

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Posted 04 January 2007 - 09:10 AM

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Zack: I read somewhere that Saddam's "Muqtada?" followed by "Is this your manhood?" taunt to the militiamen was actually him getting in one last dig by referring to the widespread rumor in Iraq that Muqtada al-Sadr is secretly gay.  It was the equivalent of him saying "Muqtada?  Is that your boyfriend?  Neener neener neener..."  which isn't all that elegant, but probably better than most of us could manage when facing a bunch of guys in ski masks and a noose.
Interesting....I had wondered what that "manhood" reference was about.

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Monstrous Saddam and his progeny were, but one has to admit they didn't lack a certain bravado in the face of death.  Even his 14 year old grandson went out with an AK-47 in his his hands back when we took down Uday and Qusay.  Wanna bet they were all big Scarface fans?

I remember reading that Saddam loved the Godfather movies. Makes sense.

What's that quote from Macbeth? "Nothing in his life became him like the leaving it; he died as one that had been studied in his death." It looks like, as with most events in Iraq, Saddam's hanging has had an unintended, unforeseen consequence. If the executioners had been dispassionate and silent, if Saddam had been obviously frightened--as would most people--then this would have played well for the Shiite-controlled Iraqi government. "The cowardly tyrant Saddam is dead. Long live a new Iraq." But that sure didn't happen.

Even those of us who despised Saddam have to admire his courage at the gallows. I can only imagine how Sunnis in Iraq--and in the region, really--perceive his death. Because of the manner in which the execution was carried out, Saddam will be remembered and revered as a martyr, and the U.S. will be held responsible for his death. Score another one for the terrorists.
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#115 Darkside_1

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Posted 06 January 2007 - 03:41 AM

One thing though... Saddam's Clerics made a mistake in regarding his arrival in paradise with the '72 virgins' and such. It was actually supposed to have read "a 72 year old virgin"   :p

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#116 Spectacles

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Posted 06 January 2007 - 05:52 AM

http://www.nytimes.c...agewanted=print

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January 6, 2007
Images of Hanging Make Hussein a Martyr to Many
By HASSAN M. FATTAH
BEIRUT, Lebanon, Jan. 5 — In the week since Saddam Hussein was hanged in an execution steeped in sectarian overtones, his public image in the Arab world, formerly that of a convicted dictator, has undergone a resurgence of admiration and awe.

On the streets, in newspapers and over the Internet, Mr. Hussein has emerged as a Sunni Arab hero who stood calm and composed as his Shiite executioners tormented and abused him.

“No one will ever forget the way in which Saddam was executed,” President Hosni Mubarak of Egypt remarked in an interview with the Israeli newspaper Yediot Aharonot published Friday and distributed by the official Egyptian news agency. “They turned him into a martyr.”

In Libya, which canceled celebrations of the feast of Id al-Adha after the execution, a government statement said a statue depicting Mr. Hussein in the gallows would be erected, along with a monument to Omar al-Mukhtar, who resisted the Italian invasion of Libya and was hanged by the Italians in 1931.

In Morocco and the Palestinian territories, demonstrators held aloft photographs of Mr. Hussein and condemned the United States.

Here in Beirut, hundreds of members of the Lebanese Baath Party and Palestinian activists marched Friday in a predominantly Sunni neighborhood behind a symbolic coffin representing that of Mr. Hussein and later offered a funeral prayer. Photographs of Mr. Hussein standing up in court, against a backdrop of the Dome of the Rock shrine in Jerusalem, were pasted on city walls near Palestinian refugee camps, praising “Saddam the martyr.”

“g*d d*mn America and its spies,” a banner across one major Beirut thoroughfare read. “Our condolences to the nation for the assassination of Saddam, and victory to the Iraqi resistance.”

By standing up to the United States and its client government in Baghdad and dying with seeming dignity, Mr. Hussein appears to have been virtually cleansed of his past.



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Just a month ago Mr. Hussein was widely dismissed as a criminal who deserved the death penalty, even if his trial was seen as flawed. Much of the Middle East reacted with a collective shrug when he was found guilty of crimes against humanity in November.

But shortly after his execution last Saturday, a video emerged that showed Shiite guards taunting Mr. Hussein, who responded calmly but firmly to them. From then on, many across the region began looking at him as a martyr.

“The Arab world has been devoid of pride for a long time,” said Ahmad Mazin al-Shugairi, who hosts a television show at the Middle East Broadcasting Center that promotes a moderate version of Islam in Saudi Arabia. “The way Saddam acted in court and just before he was executed, with dignity and no fear, struck a chord with Arabs who are desperate for their own leaders to have pride too.”

Ayman Safadi, editor in chief of the independent Jordanian daily Al Ghad, said, “The last image for many was of Saddam taken out of a hole. That has all changed now.”

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In Saudi Arabia, poems eulogizing Mr. Hussein have been passed around on cellphones and in e-mail messages.

“Prepare the gun that will avenge Saddam,” a poem published in a Saudi newspaper warned. “The criminal who signed the execution order without valid reason cheated us on our celebration day. How beautiful it will be when the bullet goes through the heart of him who betrayed Arabism.”

Mr. Safadi, the Jordanian editor, said: “In the public’s perception Saddam was terrible, but those people were worse. That final act has really jeopardized the future of Iraq immensely. And we all know this is a blow to the moderate camp in the Arab world.”

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#117 G1223

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Posted 06 January 2007 - 09:16 AM

And if we had put him in a cell the rest of his life this would be different how?  It would be likely that the jail he was placed in would need to be in the US to prevent a rescue attempt.  Which point we would be condemmed for holding him.
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#118 Spectacles

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Posted 06 January 2007 - 09:30 AM

I think the problem is that in the Arab world, Saddam's image was redeemed by the way in which his execution was conducted--mainly the dignity with which he approached death vs. the indignity of the hooting, "long live Moqtada" executioners.

Quote

Just a month ago Mr. Hussein was widely dismissed as a criminal who deserved the death penalty, even if his trial was seen as flawed. Much of the Middle East reacted with a collective shrug when he was found guilty of crimes against humanity in November.

But shortly after his execution last Saturday, a video emerged that showed Shiite guards taunting Mr. Hussein, who responded calmly but firmly to them. From then on, many across the region began looking at him as a martyr.



Quote

Ayman Safadi, editor in chief of the independent Jordanian daily Al Ghad, said, “The last image for many was of Saddam taken out of a hole. That has all changed now.

Even Charles Krauthammer was so disgusted with the demeanor of the executioners that his latest column calls for us to no longer support the Maliki government because it's clearly a sectarian, Shiite government controlled by Al Sadr, who looks to become the new, Shiite-version of Saddam.
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#119 offworlder

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Posted 06 January 2007 - 10:31 AM

no, Sadr really wants to be the Ayatolah, the power behind the throne, and the Maliki type ministers and pres's are the front for the ayatolah and mullahs like in Iran;
you can just smell it, Sadr's role model is Komeini ;)
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#120 DWF

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 12:21 PM

View PostMuseZack, on Dec 30 2006, 05:25 PM, said:

It also strikes me as weird that Saddam was executed not for his biggest crimes-- Operation Anfal (the campaign against the Kurds) and the brutal suppression of the Shia rebellion in 1991-- but for the killing of about 150 Shi'ites in reprisal for an assassination attempt against him in 1982.

Not much of a surprise those charges were dropped.

http://news.yahoo.co...n_re_mi_ea/iraq

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Saddam Hussein's trial for the killing of 180,000 Kurds in the 1980s resumed Monday with the late dictator's seat empty, nine days after he went to the gallows. The court's first order of business was to drop all charges against Saddam.

Six co-defendants — including Saddam's cousin Ali Hassan al-Majid, known as "Chemical Ali" — still face charges of war crimes and crimes against humanity stemming from a military campaign code-named Operation Anfal during the 1980-88 Iraq-Iran war.

Shortly after the court reconvened Monday, a bailiff called out the names of the accused and the six men walked silently into the courtroom one after another.

Chief Judge Mohammed Oreibi al-Khalifa said the court decided to stop all legal action against the former president, since "the death of defendant Saddam was confirmed."

All seven defendants in the Anfal case, including Saddam, had pleaded innocent to charges of war crimes and crimes against humanity. Saddam and one other man also pleaded innocent to the additional charge of genocide.

Prosecutor Munqith al-Faroon aired graphic video Monday of scores of bodies in trucks and in piles on the street, overlayed with a voice purported to be al-Majid saying "I will hit them with chemical weapons." But al-Majid testified that the bodies were killed by Iranian troops, not Iraqis.

Another audiotape had the alleged voice of Saddam warning, "These weapons are only used at my orders." He also reassures colleagues that the weapons "kill by the thousands."

"It will force them out of their homes without water or food. It makes them evacuate their homes naked," the voice said.

Saddam was sentenced to death for the killing of 148 Shiites and hanged on Dec. 30 in a chaotic execution that has drawn global criticism for the Shiite-dominated government. An illicit video from inside the former leader's execution chamber showed him being taunted on the gallows.

Saddam's half brother and former intelligence chief, Barzan Ibrahim, and former head of Iraq's Revolutionary Court, Awad Hamed al-Bandar, were sentenced to death after being found guilty along with Saddam of involvement in the killings in the town of Dujail after a 1982 assassination attempt there against Saddam.

Their executions were postponed, however, until after the Muslim holiday of Eid al-Adha, which ended six days ago. They were expected in the coming days, though Jaafar al-Mousawi, the chief prosecutor in the separate Dujail case, said the timing would "be determined by the government."

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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Iraq, Saddam Hussein, Execution in 30 days, 2006

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