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Election 2008 John Edwards Democrats

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#1 Cait

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Posted 28 December 2006 - 03:46 PM



John Edwards is throwing in...

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

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#2 Drew

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Posted 28 December 2006 - 04:05 PM

Huh. Well I guess it's because he needs a job. But couldn't he go sell used cars or something?  :whatsthat:
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#3 enTranced

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Posted 28 December 2006 - 04:12 PM

I don't hate Edwards, in fact I like much of what he says but I think more and more I'm getting behind Obama. I really, REALLY like what I'm seeing there. The guy is just exciting to watch.

Sorry Edwards, but you still smell like 2004. You and Kerry blew it for all of us and thanks to you we still have two more years of Bush to scrape off our shoes. :ninja:

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#4 Cait

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Posted 28 December 2006 - 04:29 PM

I tend to agree with you eT, I still smell 2004 on him, but I thought the ad was an interesting way to jump start a discussion on all the candidates that are/will be throwing in their hats.

I like what I hear from Obama too, but I am hesitant to ever again vote for someone with no real International political experience.  We need strong leadership, not only here at home, but overseas, in order to regain all the squandered goodwill Bush has spent.  

I was telling my mom just before Christmas that I have never looked at this one issue before in an election.  I guess I got sidetracked in all the yelling and campaigning, but from now on I'm paying a LOT of attention to it.  The President is the Commander and Chief and I want someone there that actually knows how to command not only respect abroad, but can also command the troops effectively and efficiently.  

Sorry, but Bush has taught me a hard lesson in this regard.  

I don't think we can afford to elect anyone without knowing how well they can handle themselves in world politics.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#5 Spectacles

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Posted 28 December 2006 - 04:45 PM

I agree, Cait. And just as important is to elect someone who won't be blinded by ideology or load his/her staff with ideologues. And someone who doesn't put politics above sound policy.

It's too soon for me to say who I'll vote for. But I'll surely be scrutinizing them more closely than ever before.
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#6 Drew

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Posted 28 December 2006 - 04:46 PM

View PostCait, on Dec 28 2006, 03:29 PM, said:

I was telling my mom just before Christmas that I have never looked at this one issue before in an election.  I guess I got sidetracked in all the yelling and campaigning, but from now on I'm paying a LOT of attention to it.  The President is the Commander and Chief and I want someone there that actually knows how to command not only respect abroad, but can also command the troops effectively and efficiently.

Just out of curiosity, who would you say was the last president to do this effectively?

I like what I see in Barack Obama, . . . but I think he needs to establish himself a bit more. He's only been in Congress a couple years. In 2012 or 2016 he could be an unstoppable force if he keeps himself scandal-free, but right now maybe he needs to make a name for himself doing the job he was elected to do rather than seeking higher office almost immediately.

Edited by Drew, 28 December 2006 - 04:49 PM.

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#7 Kosh

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Posted 28 December 2006 - 04:46 PM

Dick Chaney looked like a warm hearted old fellow next to John Edwards, plus Chaney beat him like a drum in the debates. Bad Candidate. I'll lean toward Obama till he shows me that he isn't worthy. How ironic would it be for the next president of the USA to have the name Hussain. It will be tough not to vote for the irony.
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#8 Cardie

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Posted 28 December 2006 - 05:12 PM

I'd like someone more experienced, too, although there is something to be said for a charismatic person who can excite us to be our best.  Maybe I've lived in the south too long, but I'm still skeptical that this country will elect either a black person or a woman in the next fifty years.  Heck, we haven't elected a Greek, an Italian, a Pole, an Arab or a Jew yet.  So that makes me a bit nervous if it quickly boils down to Hillary vs. Obama.

I'd feel safer with Joe Biden or Bill Richardson, but I don't think either of them has a chance in hell of getting the nomination.

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#9 DWF

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Posted 28 December 2006 - 05:18 PM

Knee before Zod! :lol:
  
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Edited by DWF, 28 December 2006 - 05:19 PM.

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#10 Themis

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Posted 28 December 2006 - 05:38 PM

View PostCardie, on Dec 28 2006, 10:12 PM, said:

I'm still skeptical that this country will elect either a black person or a woman in the next fifty years.

Hey, it was a big deal when we elected a Catholic....  No way could a Jewish president happen in the current international climate - the opposition would say the Arabs would blow us away....

So far the two most charismatic Dem candidate hopefuls are a black man and a white woman.  Think they'll cancel each other out in the primaries?  It's gonna be interesting.

I agree with those who want somebody with international experience.  Or at least a very quick study surrounding him/herself with great advisors.  

I'll be waiting to see who the frontrunners are.
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#11 BklnScott

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Posted 28 December 2006 - 05:40 PM

View PostCardie, on Dec 28 2006, 05:12 PM, said:

I'd like someone more experienced, too, although there is something to be said for a charismatic person who can excite us to be our best.  Maybe I've lived in the south too long, but I'm still skeptical that this country will elect either a black person or a woman in the next fifty years.  Heck, we haven't elected a Greek, an Italian, a Pole, an Arab or a Jew yet.  So that makes me a bit nervous if it quickly boils down to Hillary vs. Obama.

I'd feel safer with Joe Biden or Bill Richardson, but I don't think either of them has a chance in hell of getting the nomination.

Cardie

I'm not an Edwards fan -- though I'm open to him showing me something I didn't see in 2004.  Same with Obama -- I'm open to him, but at this point, I haven't seen anything substantial that would persuade me to vote for him.  

Biden has stuck his foot in his mouth five or six times too often lately for my taste.  (Plus, choosing the "safer" candidate is what got John Kerry the nomination, and look how that turned out.)

I would *love* Bill Richardson -- but if he's running, he's kept that secret pretty well.  (Though--doesn't Richardson support legalization of marijuana?  That'd be quite a club for the republicans to beat him over the head with.)

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#12 Cait

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Posted 28 December 2006 - 05:55 PM

View PostDrew, on Dec 28 2006, 01:46 PM, said:

View PostCait, on Dec 28 2006, 03:29 PM, said:

I was telling my mom just before Christmas that I have never looked at this one issue before in an election.  I guess I got sidetracked in all the yelling and campaigning, but from now on I'm paying a LOT of attention to it.  The President is the Commander and Chief and I want someone there that actually knows how to command not only respect abroad, but can also command the troops effectively and efficiently.

Just out of curiosity, who would you say was the last president to do this effectively?


You know Drew, that is a good question.  I'd have to actually think about an answer.  Which is actually my point, I haven't paid enough attention to this particular quality.  I am ashamed to admit it, but I think I just assumed that with advisors and Generals, and the Joint Chiefs, that anyone elected could lead effectively.  Sort of by "Presidential Mystic" or something.

I'll never make that assumption again.  I'll need to not only hear policy positions from candidates, but some kind of evidence that the candidate can actually *do* what s/he says.  

What I do know is this, there is a lot of repair work [US image and effectiveness] to be done in the world community, and while I don't propose 'kissing the a$$' of the world community, I also don't believe we did ourselves any favors by sticking an ice pick in their eyes either.  

As to Obama, I really do wish he would hold off on his run until 2012 or 2016.  It would be good to know [and comforting] that we had such a leader coming up the ranks.  Rushing his run is just a little too much like 'cashing  in' while the press is adoring him.  I'd rather he seasoned a little and came to the WH running on ALL 8 cylinders down the road.  Now that would be a President to admire and follow.

And Cardie, I really do wish Joe Biden has a serious chance of wining the nomination.  I've been a Biden fangirl ever since I saw him during the Souter confirmation hearings.  I like him quite a bit.  He seems less flashy to me, but more serious and reflective about the direction of the country.  I really do wish he had a chance this coming election, but he doesn't stand a chance up against Hilary.  She'll get the money/donations/etc.,  and that will essentially seal the deal before they get out of Iowa.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#13 Spectacles

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Posted 28 December 2006 - 06:45 PM

Quote

Cardie: I'd like someone more experienced, too, although there is something to be said for a charismatic person who can excite us to be our best.
I agree. That's one reason I'm drawn to Obama. He has a quality I haven't seen in any potential leader since Jack Kennedy. He's that charismatic. And like Kennedy, I think he's a pretty smart guy.

Given the current state of affairs, though, I do wonder if we need to elect someone who knows the ins and outs of domestic and international politics thoroughly so that he or she can jump right in and get busy without making too many greenhorn mistakes....I want to vote for Obama. I just hope he can convince me that he's ready.

Quote

Maybe I've lived in the south too long, but I'm still skeptical that this country will elect either a black person or a woman in the next fifty years.

There's definitely a segment of the voting public that won't--and not just in the South. But an Obama campaign would probably bring young voters and black voters to the polls in droves. He'd energize a large group of people who normally don't vote....I remember when the black voting block in the South was so powerful that even George Wallace moderated his views to woo them. That seems to have eroded over time. Maybe an Obama candidacy would help combat the cynicism that has kept so many from the polls lately. I think that concern is what has probably led Rush Limbaugh and others on the right to start questioning just how black Obama is.  :rolleyes:
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#14 Caretaker

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Posted 28 December 2006 - 06:45 PM

Well, right now, I'm fond of the idea of Edwards for President and Obama for VP.  I would love to vote for Hillary - but she's too divisive a choice right now.  After the last six years of lack of smarts, I'd go for anyone with even half a brain in the White House.  That includes most of the Democratic candidates right now.

Edited by Caretaker, 28 December 2006 - 06:47 PM.

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#15 Rhea

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Posted 28 December 2006 - 07:53 PM

View PostCaretaker, on Dec 28 2006, 03:45 PM, said:

Well, right now, I'm fond of the idea of Edwards for President and Obama for VP. I would love to vote for Hillary - but she's too divisive a choice right now. After the last six years of lack of smarts, I'd go for anyone with even half a brain in the White House. That includes most of the Democratic candidates right now.

Ooh, I like it. Hillary's never going to get nominated - way too divisive, and why just hand the Republicans an election? :whistle:

I disagree, eT. I don't think Edwards blew a thing - Kerry and the neocon smear job worked together to do the job quite nicely without any assist from Edwards.

I think there's probably a large segment that flatout won't vote for Obama for President because a) he's too young and b)he's black (sorry, but I think bigotry's alive and well in this particular venue) and c) he's flat too inexperienced (I like him too, but I think he needs a few more laps around the track myself). But with Edwards for President, Obama could slide in the back door and prove himself. I think Edwards is  a man of integrity and intelligence who practices what he preaches. They'd be a good team, I'm betting.

Edited by Rhea, 28 December 2006 - 07:58 PM.

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#16 Drew

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Posted 28 December 2006 - 08:46 PM

I think Edwards is a flake.  :suspect:
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#17 enTranced

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Posted 28 December 2006 - 10:11 PM

View PostSpectacles, on Dec 28 2006, 11:45 PM, said:

Quote

Cardie: I'd like someone more experienced, too, although there is something to be said for a charismatic person who can excite us to be our best.
I agree. That's one reason I'm drawn to Obama. He has a quality I haven't seen in any potential leader since Jack Kennedy. He's that charismatic. And like Kennedy, I think he's a pretty smart guy.


And that is why he gets me so excited. One of my favorite pastimes is reading. I'm not a writer by any stretch of the imagination but I consider myself pretty articulate and I can find my way around words over two syllables. So imagine my six year nightmare with a president who stutters over the word AMERICAN.  :angry:

Obama is smart, he is a leader and I think of guys like him when I think about a President. And I am VERY happy to say that he is NOT somebody I would want to drink a beer with. However, right now, he is somebody I would vote for to be my President.

I am aware though that the guy does not have a lot of experience. And that is a issue with me, but right now he is the one that has me excited. And I like the noise he is making.

Rhea : I LIKE Edwards, but 2004 almost made me stop voting. I wasn't just disapointed with the results I was disgusted by them. And the way Kerry and Edwards just FOLDED that year almost turned me off of politics for good. Those scars run very deep and Edwards will have to convince me if he wants me to consider voting for him again.

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#18 enTranced

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Posted 28 December 2006 - 10:14 PM

View PostDrew, on Dec 29 2006, 01:46 AM, said:

I think Edwards is a flake.  :suspect:

That's a little harsh. The guy is smart and he is a guy who actualy seems to care about Americans who aren't making 6 or 7 figures. But the problem is he isn't a fighter. And Democrats, hell the NATION needs a fighter right now because the guys in charge are not playing fair.

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#19 Captain Jack

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Posted 29 December 2006 - 12:32 AM

I will NOT vote for a woman simply because she is a woman, or a black man simply because he is black.  I will vote for who I believe is the right person (or more right than his/her opponent) for the job.  It's a non issue for me whether that person is a woman, or black.  Don't care.

However, I will also not vote for Left-wing extremists bordering on being commie bleeding hearts like Obama, or Shrillary.  I'd choose Edwards any day.  His closet at least has a lot less skeletons to hide than any of the rest of them.  And, he seems to actually WANT to do the right things as a President, which is what we need.  What we don't need is another double talking serpant like Bush, Cheney, Hillary, Gulliani, or Obama to name a few.
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#20 MuseZack

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Posted 29 December 2006 - 12:52 AM

Edwards isn't my first choice, but I admire the way he's made addressing the plight of the poor a central concern since before 2004 and has continued to do so, even though the issue isn't considered a political winner by the punditocracy.
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