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Bush's Speech

State of the Union 2007 Bush

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#41 Kosh

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Posted 11 January 2007 - 04:53 PM

View PostScottEVill, on Jan 11 2007, 04:07 PM, said:

The 2 carrier groups in The Gulf seem to indicate that the Administration feels differently about that, Kosh. . .


We could always bomb them into the stone age. I suspect there is a Trident Sub within range as well as the Carriers, but we dont have the troops for a war, at least, not without a
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#42 SparkyCola

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Posted 11 January 2007 - 05:52 PM

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We will interrupt the flow of support from Iran and Syria. And we will seek out and destroy the networks providing advanced weaponry and training to our enemies in Iraq.

Bush: "The notion that the US is planning to attack Iran is simply ridiculous...and having said that all options are on the table."

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#43 Cait

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Posted 11 January 2007 - 06:34 PM

Secretary Rice to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee 1/11/07

"Senator, I think it's best to leave the President's words as the President's words."

Wow, now there's a cogent answer to "will we pull out if this doesn't work?".

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
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#44 Spectacles

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Posted 11 January 2007 - 07:16 PM

Well, if Bush is counting on Maliki's government to meet us halfway to implement this plan, this doesn't bode well:

http://www.nytimes.c...;pagewanted=all

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BAGHDAD, Jan. 10 — As President Bush challenges public opinion at home by committing more American troops, he is confronted by a paradox: an Iraqi government that does not really want them.

The Shiite-led government of Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki has not publicly opposed the American troop increase, but aides to Mr. Maliki have been saying for weeks that the government is wary of the proposal. They fear that an increased American troop presence, particularly in Baghdad, will be accompanied by a more assertive American role that will conflict with the Shiite government’s haste to cut back on American authority and run the war the way it wants. American troops, Shiite leaders say, should stay out of Shiite neighborhoods and focus on fighting Sunni insurgents.

“The government believes there is no need for extra troops from the American side,” Haidar al-Abadi, a Parliament member and close associate of Mr. Maliki, said Wednesday. “The existing troops can do the job.”

It is an opinion that is broadly held among a Shiite political elite that is increasingly impatient, after nearly two years heading the government here, to exercise power without the constraining supervision of the United States. As a long-oppressed majority, the Shiites have a deep-seated fear that the power they won at the polls, after centuries of subjugation by the Sunni minority, will be progressively whittled away as the Americans seek deals with the Sunnis that will help bring American troops home.

These misgivings are broadly shared by Shiite leaders in the government, including some whom Mr. Bush has courted recently in a United States effort to form a bloc of politicians from the Shiite, Sunni and Kurdish communities that can break Mr. Maliki’s political dependence on the radical Shiite cleric Moktada al-Sadr. He leads the Mahdi Army, the most powerful of the Shiite militias that are at the heart of sectarian violence in Iraq.

Hadi al-Ameri, the leader of the security committee in Parliament and a close associate of Abdul Aziz al-Hakim — a prominent Shiite leader who met with Mr. Bush last month in Washington, and who has quietly supported the American push to reshape the political landscape in Baghdad — was unequivocal in his opposition to a troop increase. “I’m against any increase in troops,” he said.

Redha Jawad Tahi, another Shiite member of Parliament from Mr. Hakim’s party, took a similar view. “You can’t solve the problem by adding more troops,” he said. “The security should be in the hands of the Iraqis. The U.S. should be in a supporting role.”

I know that today, as the plan was discussed before Congress, Gates and Pace said that we would no longer be restrained from going into Shiite neighborhoods and routing Shiite militants, as we have been in the past. But these remarks from Iraqi government officials don't sound promising. In fact, it sounds like they are on a separate page altogether. And also, this seems to contradict the "no holds barred" rhetoric coming from the Bush administration:

Quote

The plan sketched out by Mr. Bush went at least part way to meeting these Shiite concerns by ceding greater operational authority over the war in Baghdad to the government. The plan envisages an Iraqi commander with overall control of the new security crackdown in Baghdad, and Iraqi officers working under him who would be in charge of military operations in nine newly demarcated districts in the capital.

The commanders would report to a new office of commander in chief directly under the authority of Mr. Maliki. The arrangement appeared to have the advantage, for Mr. Maliki, of giving him a means to circumvent the Ministry of Defense, which operates under close American supervision. “The U.S. agrees that the government must take command,” Mr. Abadi said.

The arrangements appeared to suggest that Mr. Maliki would have the power to halt any push into Sadr City, the Mahdi Army stronghold that American commanders have been saying for months will have to be swept of extremist militia elements if there is to be any lasting turn toward stability in Baghdad. But along with more authority for Mr. Maliki, the American plan appeared to have countervailing safeguards to prevent sectarian agendas from gaining the upper hand. Bush administration officials said that Americans would be present in the commander in chief’s office and that an American Army battalion — 400 to 600 soldiers — would be stationed in each of the nine Baghdad military districts.

"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

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#45 Cait

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Posted 11 January 2007 - 08:13 PM

Quote

Hagel:  I think this speech, given last night by this President, represents the most dangerous foreign policy blunder in this country since Vietnam, if it's carried out.

Rice:  I think that I don't see it and the President doesn't see it as an escalation.  What he sees...

Hagel:  Putting 22,000 new troops, more troops in, is not an escalation?  Would you call it a decrease?  And billions of dollars more?  

Rice:  I would call it, Senator, an augmentation that allows the Iraqis to deal with this very serious problem that they have in Baghdad.

Quote

Biden:  If it's not open-ended, does that mean you're prepared, if they fail, to pull out? To terminate?  What is the accountability mechanism?  

Rice:  Senator, I think it's best to leave the President's words as the President's words.

Just because I don't paraphrase near as well as Rice spoke.  [Just kidding]  :p

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#46 Cait

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Posted 11 January 2007 - 10:00 PM

I swear I want to have Obermann's children.. I do.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16583889/

Quote

Only this president, only in this time, only with this dangerous, even messianic certitude, could answer a country demanding an exit strategy from Iraq, by offering an entrance strategy for Iran.

Only this president could look out over a vista of 3,008 dead and 22,834 wounded in Iraq, and finally say, “Where mistakes have been made, the responsibility rests with me” — only to follow that by proposing to repeat the identical mistake ... in Iran.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#47 Hibblette

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Posted 11 January 2007 - 10:19 PM

Puhlease-the Republicans are not that stupid that they would allow the WH to go to Pelossi.

Cheney steps down due to health reasons (it's always been a Plan B for them from the get go) and they appoint someone that is neutral in the party as VP.

Then when it gets a little too hot for the spoilt brat he gets on the plane and heads for Paraquay (because it's there) and well...we bring the troops home.

It could be bad for our Country if we don't stand up and impeach.  WE are coming across incredibly stupid and vulnerable right now in the world.
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#48 Themis

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Posted 11 January 2007 - 10:42 PM

View PostHibblette, on Jan 12 2007, 03:19 AM, said:

It could be bad for our Country if we don't stand up and impeach.  WE are coming across incredibly stupid and vulnerable right now in the world.

SO true....I have no quotes or statistics, but I'd bet international opinion of the US is at an all-time low since the shrub "won" a second term.....
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#49 Captain Jack

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 03:02 AM

Not Impeach, Bush must be forced to leave office.  As much juy that would give me, we are still stuck then with Shotgun Cheney.  And if he too bows out, then we get Pelosi.  I personally do not like those outcomes.

I'm sure when Bush finishes his term, and he will, he will be happy moving to his new 100,000 acre Ranch in South America somewhere?

That will give us a chance to designate that 100,000 acres as a threat to the U.S. and we can invade it.  :devil:
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#50 FlatlandDan

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 03:40 AM

Doesn't he look tired?

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#51 Captain Jack

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 03:41 AM

View PostFlatlandDan, on Jan 12 2007, 12:40 AM, said:

Doesn't he look tired?

;)

Yes.  He's all alone in all this, and he knows it.
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#52 DWF

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 06:33 AM

View PostSpidey, on Jan 12 2007, 03:41 AM, said:

View PostFlatlandDan, on Jan 12 2007, 12:40 AM, said:

Doesn't he look tired?

;)

Yes.  He's all alone in all this, and he knows it.

That's a Dr. Who reference actually, you need to see the Christmas Invasion. ;)
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#53 BklnScott

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 08:16 AM

What is this ranch in Paraguay business you've all been talking about?  

Unless he's nuder criminal indictment -- and we're a long way from that, even if a lot of us think he (and others) *should* be impeached, removed, and then arrested -- why would he ever leave the country?  He's a famous xenophobe who had never even traveled abroad before he became President.  This is the man who's gonna go live in deepest Paraguay?  

Horse-puckey.

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#54 Zwolf

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 09:38 AM

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What is this ranch in Paraguay business you've all been talking about?

Here's one link.  Any search for "Bush Paraguay" will turn up dozens.  I don't know if he's planning to move there or build a vacation ranch or set up a sweat shop or what, but he's buyin' up a whole lotta ranchland there for some reason.   If he owned the land, I think that'd get him over any xenophobia.

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#55 SparkyCola

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 11:02 AM

View PostDWF, on Jan 12 2007, 11:33 AM, said:

View PostSpidey, on Jan 12 2007, 03:41 AM, said:

View PostFlatlandDan, on Jan 12 2007, 12:40 AM, said:

Doesn't he look tired?

;)

Yes.  He's all alone in all this, and he knows it.

That's a Dr. Who reference actually, you need to see the Christmas Invasion. ;)

I got it :D
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#56 Hibblette

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 12:59 PM

View PostSpidey, on Jan 12 2007, 02:02 AM, said:

Not Impeach, Bush must be forced to leave office.  As much juy that would give me, we are still stuck then with Shotgun Cheney.  And if he too bows out, then we get Pelosi.  I personally do not like those outcomes.

I'm sure when Bush finishes his term, and he will, he will be happy moving to his new 100,000 acre Ranch in South America somewhere?

That will give us a chance to designate that 100,000 acres as a threat to the U.S. and we can invade it.  :devil:

They'd have to bow out together Spidey.

One would bow out and then the one left behind appoints their VP.  Then that one bows out and the VP that was appointed takes over.  It won't be a Dem.

This has happened in our history before.

Oh and editing to add-there's lots of things that both Bush and Cheney can be investigated for in regards to Criminal activity, that's what they mean by the subpoena's.  There's War Profiteering, there's the Oil situation, there's our own security, there's a little matter of the lies to get us to go to this war (and I'm not just talking the WMD's) and then under all of this is those oaths that they both swore too when they took office.  Those kodak moments at the Inaugurations are realllly not just photo ops.

Edited by Hibblette, 12 January 2007 - 01:05 PM.

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#57 BklnScott

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 02:24 PM

There's a book out outlining "The Case for Impeachment."  Not sure what it says, but I think the big one is the warrantless wiretapping -- because, there, not only did they commit crimes, not only did they lie about it on the campaign trail in 2004, but then they admitted it.

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#58 MuseZack

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 03:14 PM

I've seen the Paraguay thing, and I'm deeply skeptical.  As Scott points out, it doesn't jibe with what we know of Bush's personality and interests (hates to travel, uninterested in foreign countries) and seems to be a rumor that started around some mysterious land purchases and ended up snowballing and getting treated as fact.
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#59 Kosh

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 03:30 PM

^ Damn it, from now on, I'm staring back at you!!








Didn't Condalisa look bad yesterday? Trying to convince the Senators that this wasn't leading to something bigger. I'll give her this much, she is loyal to the bitter end.
Can't Touch This!!

#60 Captain Jack

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 09:42 PM

View PostDWF, on Jan 12 2007, 03:33 AM, said:

View PostSpidey, on Jan 12 2007, 03:41 AM, said:

View PostFlatlandDan, on Jan 12 2007, 12:40 AM, said:

Doesn't he look tired?

;)

Yes.  He's all alone in all this, and he knows it.

That's a Dr. Who reference actually, you need to see the Christmas Invasion. ;)

I did.  :cool:  It was good.
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