Jump to content


Getting an "Insecure Connection" warning for Exisle? No worry

Details in this thread

14 more flee from Jimmy Carter's version of the truth

President Jimmy Carter Advisers flee Book Palestine 2007

  • Please log in to reply
53 replies to this topic

#41 DWF

DWF

    Dr. Who 1963-89, 1996, 2005-

  • Islander
  • 48,287 posts

Posted 12 January 2007 - 11:11 PM

View PostG1223, on Jan 12 2007, 10:52 PM, said:

LOL Lack of Inflation. OMG it was the inflation and nose bleed high interest rates that doomed Jimmy Carter's reign. Hell that was one of Regan's selling points. His comment was in 1980 "Do you feel better off now than you did four years ago."


I remember seeing rates that nearly topped 20% as the rates people were paying. Regan got that rate to drop but OMG Carter was a disaster.  But he fouled up in talking with the people who seized our embassy. It took the credible threat of force which Jimmy could not or would not show to ensure the safe return of our people held hostage for over a year.

He did a nice job of Giving Saddat and Begin room to talk. But that was all he did.  His handling of 3 mile island. There he did a good job. He had a great deal of knowledge that let him help come up with a plan to fix the problem.

And yet the national debt went down which wasn't the case when Reagan the Bush's were in office.

http://en.wikipedia....sidential_terms

Quote

U.S. president Party Term years Start debt/GDP* End debt/GDP* Increase debt/GDP
Jimmy Carter D 1977-1981 35.8% 32.5% -3.3%
Ronald Reagan R 1981-1985 32.5% 43.8% +11.3%
Ronald Reagan R 1985-1989 43.8% 53.1% +9.3%
George H. W. Bush R 1989-1993 53.1% 66.1% +13.0%
Bill Clinton D 1993-1997 66.1% 65.6% -0.5%
Bill Clinton D 1997-2001 65.6% 57.5% -8.1%
George W. Bush R 2001-2005 57.5% 67.5% +10.0%
George W. Bush R 2005-2009 projection 67.5% 71.9% projection +4.4% projection

The longest-running science fiction series: decadent, degenerate and rotten to the core. Power-mad conspirators, Daleks, Sontarans... Cybermen! They're still in the nursery compared to us. Fifty years of absolute fandom. That's what it takes to be really critical.

"Don't mistake a few fans bitching on the Internet for any kind of trend." - Keith R.A. DeCandido

#42 G1223

G1223

    The Blunt Object.

  • Dead account
  • 16,164 posts

Posted 12 January 2007 - 11:32 PM

Ah yes and the military under Carter how did it fair? We were losing our ability to defend ourselves and Here was Mr. Peanut either giving away everything we owned. Or finding ways to be weak sister to anyone who wanted to hurt the US.  Odd you do not talk about his great way of rescuing the hostages in Iran.

Sorry Jimmy Carter did a few things right not enough for me to think him a great statesmen who brought us peace. He brought us a weaker US.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#43 Chipper

Chipper

    Give it up

  • Islander
  • 5,202 posts

Posted 13 January 2007 - 02:03 AM

There are countries without standing armies (i.e. Switzerland, I believe).  They seem to be pretty secure.
"Courtesy is how we got civilized. The blind assertion of rights is what threatens to decivilize us. Everybody's got lots of rights that are set out legally. Responsibilities are not enumerated, for good reason, but they are set into the social fabric. Is it such a sacrifice to not be an a**hole?"

- Jenny Smith on Usenet, via Jid, via Kathy

#44 tennyson

tennyson
  • Islander
  • 6,173 posts

Posted 13 January 2007 - 02:44 AM

Quote

There are countries without standing armies (i.e. Switzerland, I believe). They seem to be pretty secure.
There are very few nations in the world without a standing army and Switzerland is not one of them.  Switzerland has an an active military component  that serves to maintain training and readiness and nearly every citizen serves thier term as a part of it then goes into reserve status. These massive reserve forces can then be called into action very quickly and are backed up by one of the most extensive systems of fortifications and fallback bases ever devised including airfields built into the sides of mountains and civil defense complexes capable of holding the entire nation's population in the event of nuclear war. Switzerland hasn't been involved in a war since 1815 partly because the Swiss themselves made it suicidal for any other power to attempt invading thier territory.
Here's the Wikipedia entry, although I can cite a lot of other sources.
http://en.wikipedia....erland/Military

Quote

All able-bodied male Swiss citizens are conscripted to the armed forces. For women the service is voluntary. Since 1996, Swiss citizens can apply for civilian service instead. Entry to the civilian service is based on moral grounds and subject to a successful application.

A significant number of young men choose to avoid military service by visiting a doctor who attests to their incapacity to do military service on medical grounds, or try to fake it during recruitment through psychological and physical tests that are taken during recruitment. This can be on either physical or mental grounds. Those who are found unable to serve the military pay an additional 2% income tax, and must in any case serve in Civil Protection (Police, Fire Department etc.), though the duration of this is much shorter. As of January 2004, the income tax was raised to 3% by the Federal Council. Also, those who have conscience issues against war (for example, people who experienced violence at a young age, or have been in a warzone) can serve in Civil Service, where they do various kinds of social services, such as reconstructing cultural sites, helping the elderly and so on and so forth. However, a citizen may only request enrollment in Civil Service if they are psychologically and physically eligible for military service, but they have to put in one and a half times more time than they would as soldiers.

Conscription occurs at the age of 18 years. At the age of 20, about half the service is done during an initial training period of 21 or 18 weeks, depending on the service branch, with the exception of the Grenadiers, an elite infantry unit with a 25-week boot camp. Initial training (following regular boot camp) for members of the AAD, Switzerland's new SAS-type Special Forces unit, which is an all-volunteer professional unit with a rigorous selection process, is 18 months. Thereafter, men remain in the military until the age of 30 (or longer, if the military service is not yet completed), performing three weeks of training every year. However, the service period of non-commissioned officers and officers is significantly longer. Due to a new military reform enacted in 2005, it is no longer possible to postpone the initial training to finish university, although it is possible to postpone in order to finish highschool or equivalent internships (for example for an aspiring carpenter who might only finish training at 19 or 20). For this reason many people try to get out of military service, so they can attend university immediately after finishing highschool. It is possible to split the time in basic training (as recruit) and service (as soldier) which would allow one to start university immediately, the second half must be served at the earliest possible opportunity, usually Christmas break, a time which is usually used to study for exams. Hence, this practice is very hard on the student, and generally not recommended. The successive training weeks can also be postponed, but there is limited scope. In general, men interrupt their work during these weeks. During military service, the employee is paid a compensation of 80% of his regular salary by the state. Most employers, however, continue to pay the full salary during military service. In this case, the compensation is paid to the employer

The few nations without standing armies are either nations with protection agreements with larger, more powerful nations like Iceland (a NATO member) or Andorra(which relies upon protection agreements with Spain and France), completely isolated nations with no neighbors like Iceland and Barbados that still have treaties with larger nations(in Barbados's case the UK) or nations with something else that serves the same role like Costa Rica's National Guard.
"Only an idiot would fight a war on two fronts. Only the heir to the throne of the Kingdom of Idiots would fight a war on twelve fronts."

— Londo, "Ceremonies of Light and Dark" Babylon-5


#45 tennyson

tennyson
  • Islander
  • 6,173 posts

Posted 13 January 2007 - 02:56 AM

Quote

We had all of Korea and we gave it back to them and had to fight a police action for the next three years, kind of like what's going on in Iraq right now.
I honestly have no idea what sort of comparison you are drawing here. Korea had been ruled by Japan since 1910 until 1945 when it was divided between Soviet and American occupation forces that each controlled a sector of the country like their were British, French, American and Soviet sectors of control in Germany. The Soviets armed thier portion with the best weapons and armor they had and then that portion invaded an all but unarmed south. The US never had "all of Korea." The closest it came was the UN advance at the end of 1950 that was stopped by the Chinese throwing in thier massive numerical advantage. The combat in Iraq looks nothing like the combat in Korea that was defined by fixed battlelines, conventional battles and a casualty rate more than ten times higher.
Also, Korea was literally the first UN war, supported by a unanimous vote of the Security Council and prosecuted by contingents of troops from more than two dozen nations.

Quote

The stalemate meant making a country of North Korea again which in my mind means we gave it back to them.
How does not being able to achieve a goal equate to actively doing the exact opposite of that goal? The only reason the North had as much territory as it did in 1953 was because the Chinese tipped the balance and we spent the next two years fighting as hard as possible to get it back until the war couldn't be supported anymore.

Edited by tennyson, 13 January 2007 - 03:06 AM.

"Only an idiot would fight a war on two fronts. Only the heir to the throne of the Kingdom of Idiots would fight a war on twelve fronts."

— Londo, "Ceremonies of Light and Dark" Babylon-5


#46 tennyson

tennyson
  • Islander
  • 6,173 posts

Posted 13 January 2007 - 03:04 AM

Also, I'd like to put in a clarification, because I happen to weigh in on a few specific issues does not mean that I support all, some or even any of G1223's or any other's positions, rather it means I am talking about the very specific point that was brought up that I am discussing. My comments only have relevance to that specific point and should not be taken as examples of support or condemnation of any points beyond those that I have spcifically addressed in my posts. In other words if it is not mentioned then I didn't say anything about it.
"Only an idiot would fight a war on two fronts. Only the heir to the throne of the Kingdom of Idiots would fight a war on twelve fronts."

— Londo, "Ceremonies of Light and Dark" Babylon-5


#47 DWF

DWF

    Dr. Who 1963-89, 1996, 2005-

  • Islander
  • 48,287 posts

Posted 13 January 2007 - 08:41 AM

View Posttennyson, on Jan 13 2007, 02:56 AM, said:

Quote

We had all of Korea and we gave it back to them and had to fight a police action for the next three years, kind of like what's going on in Iraq right now.
I honestly have no idea what sort of comparison you are drawing here. Korea had been ruled by Japan since 1910 until 1945 when it was divided between Soviet and American occupation forces that each controlled a sector of the country like their were British, French, American and Soviet sectors of control in Germany. The Soviets armed thier portion with the best weapons and armor they had and then that portion invaded an all but unarmed south. The US never had "all of Korea." The closest it came was the UN advance at the end of 1950 that was stopped by the Chinese throwing in thier massive numerical advantage. The combat in Iraq looks nothing like the combat in Korea that was defined by fixed battlelines, conventional battles and a casualty rate more than ten times higher.
Also, Korea was literally the first UN war, supported by a unanimous vote of the Security Council and prosecuted by contingents of troops from more than two dozen nations.

Quote

The stalemate meant making a country of North Korea again which in my mind means we gave it back to them.
How does not being able to achieve a goal equate to actively doing the exact opposite of that goal? The only reason the North had as much territory as it did in 1953 was because the Chinese tipped the balance and we spent the next two years fighting as hard as possible to get it back until the war couldn't be supported anymore.

UN forces had made it to the Yalu river.

http://upload.wikime...ea-overview.gif

http://en.wikipedia....r_1950-1953.gif

And of course the Chinese forces outnumbered the UN's on the front, but the Chinese had no air support that was supplied by the Soviets and it was a conflict that we(meaning the UN) weren't allowed to win and to date there's still no peace treaty.
The longest-running science fiction series: decadent, degenerate and rotten to the core. Power-mad conspirators, Daleks, Sontarans... Cybermen! They're still in the nursery compared to us. Fifty years of absolute fandom. That's what it takes to be really critical.

"Don't mistake a few fans bitching on the Internet for any kind of trend." - Keith R.A. DeCandido

#48 Caithness

Caithness

    Nemo me impune lacessit.

  • Islander
  • 4,941 posts

Posted 17 January 2007 - 08:10 PM

View PostGodeskian, on Jan 12 2007, 11:06 AM, said:

Done, thought it looked odd in AGQ

yes, I was very confused.

nit, i like your avatar.
Posted Image

#49 Rhea

Rhea

  • Islander
  • 16,433 posts

Posted 17 January 2007 - 09:05 PM

View PostZwolf, on Jan 12 2007, 10:45 AM, said:

My co-worker was ranting about this today (because American Family Radio told her to), and she wants all copies of his book confiscated and burned. Because, she said, "I don't know how Jimmy Carter can side with the Palestinians after they bombed us on 9-11!"

:blink:

She's also happy that we get along with the Russians now, after we fought against them in World War II, and that Hitler was bad because he "only liked Americans."

And, she worries about Buddhism because of "them people sticking them pins in them dolls," has asked me how big a convertible is, and asked our boss where she could go to get a Christmas stocking engraved.

She's very concerned about Israel, though... even though she thinks Hebrew is a very hard language to learn, and Jewish is even harder. And if she adopted a baby, she'd get a Chinese one, because they're so well-behaved.

I wish I were making any of that up, but, alas... :wacko:

So, basically, I think the fear of Carter is a spook-the-herd dealie, and, from what I can see, the herd is being very accomodating.

I'm not a fan of Carter, and I'm not a fan of Palestine, but I'm not a fan of Israel, either. I think it has a right to exist and defend themselves, but I don't know why we have to get dragged into a quarrel that's not about us. 9-11 was bad, but so was The U.S.S. Liberty, so I don't see a lotta friendlies on either flank. I wish they'd all settle their dispute so the rest of the world could quit suffering on its behalf. But, that might require atheism, and we can't have that...

Cheers,

Zwolf


<snerk>

Thanks Z, for putting everything in perspective. :wink:  :clap: (Sometimes you just plain make my day. I don't know what I'd do without your co-worker stories. :laughlong: )
The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#50 SparkyCola

SparkyCola
  • Islander
  • 14,904 posts

Posted 18 January 2007 - 07:16 AM

^ Me too, Zwolf, though in the post Rhea quoted I wasn't quite sure whether to laugh or cry....:rolleyes:

Quote

The few nations without standing armies are either nations with protection agreements with larger, more powerful nations like Iceland (a NATO member)

Besides, who would want to attack Iceland? It's the best place in the world :love:  I guess it was pretty useful in Risk. :unsure:

tennyson you are an incredible fount of knowledge. Have you ever thought about going on MasterMind with specialist subject "Military History" or something like that?

Sparky
Able to entertain a thought without taking it home to meet the parents

#51 G1223

G1223

    The Blunt Object.

  • Dead account
  • 16,164 posts

Posted 18 January 2007 - 08:35 AM

Iceland has or at one time did have a US military detachment on the island. Add in the Naval techs operating the sonar nets you can see why they do not need a standing army.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#52 Rhea

Rhea

  • Islander
  • 16,433 posts

Posted 21 January 2007 - 11:39 AM

This is what President Carter had to say today:

http://news.yahoo.co...rter_conference

Quote

"I have been called a liar," Carter said at a town hall meeting on the second day of a three-day symposium on his presidency at the University of Georgia.

"I have been called an anti-Semite," he said. "I have been called a bigot. I have been called a plagiarist. I have been called a coward. Those kind of accusations, they concern me, but they don't detract from the fact the book is accurate and is needed."

Following the publication of the book: "Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid," 14 members of an advisory board to his Carter Center resigned in protest. Those former board members and other critics contend the book is unfairly critical of Israel.

"Not one of the critics of my book has contradicted any of the basic premises ... that is the horrible persecution and oppression of the Palestinian people and secondly that the formula for finding peace in the Middle East already exists," the 82-year-old Carter said.

Carter said he was pleased the book has stimulated discussion of an issue that has been "omitted from the public consciousness" for at least the last six years.

Edited by Rhea, 21 January 2007 - 11:39 AM.

The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#53 Nittany Lioness

Nittany Lioness

    Craving a little perspective.

  • Islander
  • 3,537 posts

Posted 21 January 2007 - 04:38 PM

Odd footnote is this account from Neal Sher, a veteran of the U.S. Justice Department's Office of Special Investigation who has been on national news last week or so after the Carter Book bruhaha ratcheted up:

http://www.israelnat....php3?id=119732

Carter apparently appealed for leniency, in the name of humanity, for an SS guard who killed Jews.
Sher in some circles is said to be a charlatan though, bilking holocaust compensation $$$ to live high on the hog.

Edited by Nittany Lioness, 21 January 2007 - 04:39 PM.

I'm cold Howard.jpg


#54 G1223

G1223

    The Blunt Object.

  • Dead account
  • 16,164 posts

Posted 21 January 2007 - 05:09 PM

[quote name='Rhea' post='949208' date='Jan 21 2007, 11:39 AM']This is what President Carter had to say today:

[url="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070121/ap_on_re_us/carter_conference"]http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070121/ap_on_...rter_conference[/url]


Carter said he was pleased the book has stimulated discussion of an issue that has been "omitted from the public consciousness" for at least the last six years.[/quote]
[/quote]

No not omitted Jimmy just seen as a fools quest.  After all Israel should lay down and be butchered by those same friendly understanding Palastinian folks who cannot seem to keep a ceasefire going. Maybe Jimmy if you talked to the PLO ...I mean Palistian Authority and it's Hamas led government about anger management and the benifits of Lithium. Maybe I could take you seriously.

But till then Jimmy I will thank you for your input and support Israel while it tires to find a way to have secuirty with a neighbor they cannot get the police to stop attacking them. That is before IDF gets orders to go in and move these 'peaceful people to Jordan or whatever country they can flee into ahead of whatever tank the IDF feels it needs to get the area under control.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: President Jimmy Carter, Advisers flee, Book, Palestine, 2007

0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users