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State of the Union Thread

2007 State of the Union Bush

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#61 Rhea

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 05:40 PM

View PostSolar Wind, on Jan 24 2007, 11:44 AM, said:

^ Actually, the idea behind the child tax credit is that children place a strain on a family's finances, and a progressive tax system taxes people according to their ability to bear the burden.

Yeah, well, living puts a strain on you when you're single. No tax break in recent memory has given single people making under $40,000 single penny. That's what I mean when I said we don't count. Tax breaks are for the rich and those who choose to procreate.
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#62 Hibblette

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 05:46 PM

One of these days all of the greediness is going to implode on these a-holes.  Problem is we little guys will suffer in this also.

It's so obvious that you cannot keep raising prices and retaining low wages (not to mention sending jobs overseas) that eventually the consumer will literally explode.
"There are many ways of going forward, but there is only one way of standing still."  FDR explaining why Liberals are so often divided and Conservatives are so often united.

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#63 Godeskian

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 05:47 PM

View PostRhea, on Jan 24 2007, 10:40 PM, said:

View PostSolar Wind, on Jan 24 2007, 11:44 AM, said:

^ Actually, the idea behind the child tax credit is that children place a strain on a family's finances, and a progressive tax system taxes people according to their ability to bear the burden.

Yeah, well, living puts a strain on you when you're single. No tax break in recent memory has given single people making under $40,000 single penny. That's what I mean when I said we don't count. Tax breaks are for the rich and those who choose to procreate.

If it helps, the same is true in the UK. When the goverment comes out and says that tax benefits will go to single mothers, while folks like me work to pay taxes, it makes me very angry.

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#64 Hibblette

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 05:56 PM

View PostGodeskian, on Jan 24 2007, 04:47 PM, said:

View PostRhea, on Jan 24 2007, 10:40 PM, said:

View PostSolar Wind, on Jan 24 2007, 11:44 AM, said:

^ Actually, the idea behind the child tax credit is that children place a strain on a family's finances, and a progressive tax system taxes people according to their ability to bear the burden.

Yeah, well, living puts a strain on you when you're single. No tax break in recent memory has given single people making under $40,000 single penny. That's what I mean when I said we don't count. Tax breaks are for the rich and those who choose to procreate.

If it helps, the same is true in the UK. When the goverment comes out and says that tax benefits will go to single mothers, while folks like me work to pay taxes, it makes me very angry.

I don't know about in the UK but here in the States a lot of those single mothers are also taxpayers too.  

The choices I suppose are live with the guy that doesn't want you or his brats around and be beat on or try to make it on your own.  I went with choice b.
"There are many ways of going forward, but there is only one way of standing still."  FDR explaining why Liberals are so often divided and Conservatives are so often united.

"I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat."  Will Rogers

#65 ilexx

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 06:00 PM

View PostGodeskian, on Jan 24 2007, 11:47 PM, said:

View PostRhea, on Jan 24 2007, 10:40 PM, said:

View PostSolar Wind, on Jan 24 2007, 11:44 AM, said:

^ Actually, the idea behind the child tax credit is that children place a strain on a family's finances, and a progressive tax system taxes people according to their ability to bear the burden.

Yeah, well, living puts a strain on you when you're single. No tax break in recent memory has given single people making under $40,000 single penny. That's what I mean when I said we don't count. Tax breaks are for the rich and those who choose to procreate.

If it helps, the same is true in the UK. When the goverment comes out and says that tax benefits will go to single mothers, while folks like me work to pay taxes, it makes me very angry.

The same goes for Germany. If tax benefits were to go to single mothers, people would get angry. So it simply doesn't happen.

What I don't get, though: most single mothers I know of work too. And have more difficulties, financial or otherwise, than dinkis or the classical family with two parents. Why should the state not take those dificulties into account and grant benefits? Why should all tax payers get angry because a fraction among them, who are facing more challenges, is being helped along a bit?

#66 Palisades

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 06:13 PM

View PostRhea, on Jan 24 2007, 05:40 PM, said:

View PostSolar Wind, on Jan 24 2007, 11:44 AM, said:

^ Actually, the idea behind the child tax credit is that children place a strain on a family's finances, and a progressive tax system taxes people according to their ability to bear the burden.

Yeah, well, living puts a strain on you when you're single. No tax break in recent memory has given single people making under $40,000 single penny. That's what I mean when I said we don't count. Tax breaks are for the rich and those who choose to procreate.

But what financial costs do childless single people have that childless couples don't have? True, single people don't have a second wage earner to help pay for housing costs and utilities, but some couples only have one wage earner. Also, single people have the option of getting a roommate to help with the bills.

ETA: Bush's plan arguably benefits people who purchase single health insurance coverage more than people who purchase family coverage because on average, family coverage costs over 2.5 times as much as single coverage, but the deduction for purchasing family coverage is only twice as much as the deduction for purchasing single coverage.

Edited by Solar Wind, 24 January 2007 - 07:04 PM.

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#67 Themis

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 06:17 PM

View PostHibblette, on Jan 24 2007, 06:55 PM, said:

The healthcare issues is about the poor.

It's about more than that.  If I lost this job and could get health insurance, it would probably cost me over $400/month, or $4,800 a year.  If I lost this job, I'd probably be making less money, and I can't pay my bills now, so the likelihood of being able to afford health insurance is nil.  As it is, my doctor is sure I'm uninsurable, so I'm locked to this job for the insurance.  The healthcare/insurance issue is about the poor, the under-middle, the middle and the upper-middle classes (if any of those exist anymore).  The really rich don't need it - they can just pay the bills.  $15-20,000 for a 3-day hospital stay and the related services - no problem!  For those without insurance who aren't really rich, it's what leads to an enormous number of bankruptcy filings and drains on the nation's emergency rooms.
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#68 Palisades

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 06:28 PM

View PostGodeskian, on Jan 24 2007, 05:47 PM, said:

View PostRhea, on Jan 24 2007, 10:40 PM, said:

View PostSolar Wind, on Jan 24 2007, 11:44 AM, said:

^ Actually, the idea behind the child tax credit is that children place a strain on a family's finances, and a progressive tax system taxes people according to their ability to bear the burden.

Yeah, well, living puts a strain on you when you're single. No tax break in recent memory has given single people making under $40,000 single penny. That's what I mean when I said we don't count. Tax breaks are for the rich and those who choose to procreate.

If it helps, the same is true in the UK. When the goverment comes out and says that tax benefits will go to single mothers, while folks like me work to pay taxes, it makes me very angry.

I assume you mean the UK gives single mothers tax benefits that married parents don't get?

Edited by Solar Wind, 25 January 2007 - 12:27 AM.

"When the Fed is the bartender everybody drinks until they fall down." —Paul McCulley

"In truth, 'too big to fail' is not the worst thing we should fear – our financial institutions are now on their way to becoming 'too big to save'." —Simon Johnson

FKA:
TWP / An Affirming Flame / Solar Wind / Palisade

#69 Hibblette

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 06:39 PM

View PostThemis, on Jan 24 2007, 05:17 PM, said:

View PostHibblette, on Jan 24 2007, 06:55 PM, said:

The healthcare issues is about the poor.

It's about more than that.  If I lost this job and could get health insurance, it would probably cost me over $400/month, or $4,800 a year.  If I lost this job, I'd probably be making less money, and I can't pay my bills now, so the likelihood of being able to afford health insurance is nil.  As it is, my doctor is sure I'm uninsurable, so I'm locked to this job for the insurance.  The healthcare/insurance issue is about the poor, the under-middle, the middle and the upper-middle classes (if any of those exist anymore).  The really rich don't need it - they can just pay the bills.  $15-20,000 for a 3-day hospital stay and the related services - no problem!  For those without insurance who aren't really rich, it's what leads to an enormous number of bankruptcy filings and drains on the nation's emergency rooms.

There's a program out on ... I wanna say Sundance Channel...that tells about the healthcare issues that those of 9/11 have suffered.  It is mind boggling.  And actually everything they are saying about these rescue workers and survivors of this tragedy actually applies to all of us.

And Themis if you didn't get another job you would suddenly be poor...and the job market (despite what they are saying) is not all that great right now.

So to me it is about the poor.
"There are many ways of going forward, but there is only one way of standing still."  FDR explaining why Liberals are so often divided and Conservatives are so often united.

"I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat."  Will Rogers

#70 Themis

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 07:58 PM

View PostHibblette, on Jan 24 2007, 11:39 PM, said:

And Themis if you didn't get another job you would suddenly be poor...and the job market (despite what they are saying) is not all that great right now.

Actually there is a huge new retail center opening two miles from my house.  I'm doing demos at the weekend at the Costco, and I could probably get a full-time job there, or at the new Target, or the new Best Buy or a lot of other stores about to open in the next year.  I wouldn't be making the whopping (NOT) $15.79 I'm making now as a legal secretary, but Costco starts at $10.50 (and goes to $19.50, less than I'm making after 8 years where I am... I wouldn't be paying $110 a month parking and could work in jeans and tennies, and my gasoline costs would go way down.  So worse off, yes; poor, maybe not.  Probable bankruptcy though, as my debts are based on my current salary.  Actually my buying power five years ago... I could also work temp, which would end up with the same financial results.  Not poor enough to get poverty benefits or food stamps but far from what "middle class" should be.  I have a friend in advertising sales who isn't poor; but barely making ends meet, and she's got health insurance only for real catastrophes - it's all she can afford.

Of course that's it, isn't it.  I WILL work weekends at Costco doing demos.  I WILL work temp (and have the education to).   I WILL do that instead of relying on unemployment or welfare...

BTW, there are people who have company-paid insurance for themselves, but can't afford to pay the premiums for their children.  They're not "poor."

Single people and childless couples, in the name of an educated population (worth paying for, certainly - if only education actually educated the population!!), pay for schools and other benefits for children through taxes.  We also join the rest of the population in paying for health care and education for the children of both slackers and unfortunates who pay no taxes, not to mention illegals... Heck, the whole country deserves a tax deduction for our contribution to the welfare of illegal immigrants.  We just had a court ruling that the parents of an illegal who died on the job are entitled to benefits from state worker's comp insurance!!!!

I saw today that China still has a one-child-per-couple policy; two in rural areas - they must have one heck of a birth control program!  Maybe child tax credits should be limited by income - credits for no more children than your income indicates you can support.  (Probably a Catholic lobby would defeat that idea...)  Of course raising children is bringing up the next generation of taxpayers, not to mention scientists, teachers, etc. etc.  Of course in come cases it's bringing up the next generation of welfare recipients...  

I HAD a roommate in my 20's.  No more until I have a "roommate" who's a caregiver... Not that there's much help with that from any government entity...

Wages and the tax system are definitely keyed to couples and two-income households, despite the reality that many are living single these days.  How about a deduction for any household with only one income?!  That would include stay-at-home moms or dads.  Certainly to be encouraged!!!  How about a penalty for two-income-households that could get by with one - both parents working because they love their careers or want expensive holidays instead of one parent concentrating on child rearing?!  Society overall would, in a large proportion of cases, be better off if a parent was home with the kids instead of the kids being in day care.  Not to mention the kids wouldn't get sick as often from bugs spread in day care!

How about electing an economist for Pres. instead of a politician???
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#71 Hibblette

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 08:23 PM

Even if you're working you can still be poor.

I actually make just over $16.00 an hour and I work a full 40 hours but I am poor.

Edited by Hibblette, 24 January 2007 - 08:24 PM.

"There are many ways of going forward, but there is only one way of standing still."  FDR explaining why Liberals are so often divided and Conservatives are so often united.

"I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat."  Will Rogers

#72 Kimmer

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 10:24 PM

I stopped watching SOTU speeches eons ago. They're like campaign promises -- easily stated, seldom kept. ;)  Plus I hate the tug-at-your heart stuff of introducing folks from the gallery to make a point. We went to a concert instead of staying home being bored.  :p

View PostRhea, on Jan 24 2007, 02:40 PM, said:

View PostSolar Wind, on Jan 24 2007, 11:44 AM, said:

^ Actually, the idea behind the child tax credit is that children place a strain on a family's finances, and a progressive tax system taxes people according to their ability to bear the burden.

Yeah, well, living puts a strain on you when you're single. No tax break in recent memory has given single people making under $40,000 single penny. That's what I mean when I said we don't count. Tax breaks are for the rich and those who choose to procreate.
Trust me, when you're retired you don't benefit either. ;)  Plus, our health care premiums are around 4x what they were if we'd stayed "in state"; and our coverage is way less. Our actual health care costs are much lower than they were "in state", but we pay through the nose for the privilege of having a paper card that says we have insurance. We are actually looking at other plans (and dropping that benefit which Sneakers worked for for over 30 years) as a way to cut out our health care in order to survive. Good thing we managed to pay off all our debts. ;)

Gigi said:

But after living here for almost 30 years it is hard to think of re-building my life somewhere else.
Ahhh ... but it's a grand adventure. :) I don't recommend it for everyone -- and you should think long and hard and research long and hard before taking that kind of a step. I will tell you that Sneakers and I are happier than we've ever been. :)  Still ... it's a major undertaking.

#73 Kimmer

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 10:28 PM

Forgot ... I sincerely hope we some good progress in the area of energy independence. I think we have the technology to build more efficient automobiles, and to provide energy more efficiently -- but we have to stop listening to the lobbyists from the various oil companies and auto companies and actually do something positive for the country in this area.

#74 tennyson

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 08:27 PM

Quote

Yeah, well, living puts a strain on you when you're single. No tax break in recent memory has given single people making under $40,000 single penny. That's what I mean when I said we don't count. Tax breaks are for the rich and those who choose to procreate.

I got $300 from the first Bush tax cut and I was making under $9000 a year then.
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