12 replies to this topic

[DWF]

http://news.yahoo.co...el_070126212416

Quote

The United Nations General Assembly unanimously condemned denial of the Holocaust in a move diplomats said was directly aimed at Iran for branding the World War II mass murder of Jews a lie.

In the resolution proposed by the United States and co-sponsored by more than 100 countries, the 192-member Assembly General said it "urges all member states unreservedly to reject any denial of the Holocaust as a historical event, either in full or in part, or any activities to this end."

The resolution, adopted by consensus, does not name any country but points to "efforts to deny the Holocaust, which by ignoring the historical fact of these terrible events increase the risk they will be repeated."

Diplomats said the resolution was inspired by Iran, where President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and other leaders have repeatedly denied that the Nazis' systematic genocidal mass murder of six million Jews during World War II took place, calling it a "myth."

Iran drew international condemnation for holding the two-day conference in December to examine questions posed by Ahmadinejad over the Holocaust.

US Undersecretary of State Nicholas Burns described the resolution to reporters Friday as "an effective repudiation of President Ahmadinejad's baseless and gross mischaracterization" of the Holocaust.

Burns noted that Iran was the only country that disassociated itself from the resolution.

Israeli foreign ministry spokesman Mark Regev told AFP: "Israel is very pleased by the adoption of this resolution."

He said the resolution showed that "a government which offers a platform and its patronage to those who deny the Shoah (Holocaust) is rejected by the international community."

Israel's permanent UN representative Dan Gillerman lashed out at Tehran's stance during the assembly session Friday.

"While the nations of the world gather here to affirm the historicity of the Holocaust with the intent of never again allowing genocide, a member of this assembly is acquiring the capabilities to carry out its own. The President of Iran is in fact saying: 'There really was no Holocaust, but just in case, we shall finish the job.'"

Hossein Gharabi, second secretary of Iran's UN mission, countered: "We, like many countries, have condemned genocide against any race, ethnic or religious group as a crime against humanity. We reiterate this unambiguous position today.

"In our view, there is no justification for genocide of any kind, nor can there be any justification for the attempts made by some, particularly by the Israeli regime, to exploit the past crimes as a pretext to commit new genocides and crimes."

UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon, his spokesperson said Friday, "reiterates his conviction that the denial of historical facts such as the Holocaust is unacceptable."

Just before taking office on January 1, Ban warned the Iranian leadership that denial of the Holocaust and calls to eliminate any state were "not acceptable," a reference to Ahmadinejad's remarks that Israel should be "wiped off" the map.

But on Tuesday Ahmadinejad again described the Holocaust as a "fabrication" and repeated his prediction that Israel would "fall to pieces."

UN General Assembly resolutions are non-binding, unlike those of the 15-member UN Security Council, but they carry considerable moral and symbolic significance.

In November 2005 the United Nations proclaimed January 27 as the International Day of Commemoration in Memory of the Victims of the Holocaust to commemorate Jewish and other victims of the German Nazi regime during World War II.

I don't know if it means anything coming from the UN though.

[Godeskian]

I'm actually more concerned about Germany's plan to introduce European wide law that would make holocaust denial punishable as it currently is in Austria and Germany. I'm not a fan of Holocaust denials, but plenty of people have distorted history for their own views, and I don't believe in jailing them for it.

[The Oncoming Storm]

^Censuring people for denying the Holocaust is one thing.  I mean, were talking about one of the most well-documented cases of state-organized systematic mass murder of any group of people in history.  The thing that got 11 of the 21 defendants hung was that the paperwork proving the "Final Solution" was voluminous.  Frankly, only an idiot with an axe to grind would deny the Holocaust.  

But, being stupid is part of being a human being.  Everyone has the right to be stupid, as long as it doesn't hurt others.  If someone wants to deny the Holocaust, let 'em.  And then let the rest of civilized, educated society laugh them into the silence.  But, jailing an idiot for expressing and idiot's opinion is a gross violation of the rights of people to be as idiotically stupid as they can be or want to be.

[SparkyCola]

Quote

I'm actually more concerned about Germany's plan to introduce European wide law that would make holocaust denial punishable as it currently is in Austria and Germany. I'm not a fan of Holocaust denials, but plenty of people have distorted history for their own views, and I don't believe in jailing them for it.

Yes, we have to bear in mind freedom of speech, even if that speech is saying something we don't want to hear or we don't like. They still should have the right to their opinion even if we think it's wrong.

Sparky

[G1223]

DWF, on Jan 27 2007, 02:05 PM, said:

I don't know if it means anything coming from the UN though.

I means there is a pretty piece of paper with seals and stamps marking it as a important piece of paper.

In short it is talk talk talk talk talk. Till sleep takes the listener to Nod.

[D.Rabbit]

Any news on weather Turkey has admitted that they performed genocide on the Armenians yet?
Seeing that Turkey got away with marching Armenians around in circles until they died of starvation and fatigue etc. and where not punished by the international community, gave the go ahead for Hitler to do what he did to the Jews.

Let's put the blame where it belongs, on the League of Nations inability to protect the weak and the innocent. On the spiritual leaders who remained silent. As well as the lack of communication that was only beginning to make inroads into what was actually going on behind the scenes.

[SparkyCola]

^ The whole thing with the writer who died has brought that matter very much into the open.

I haven't checked up on it recently, but last I heard Turkey wanted to work with Armenia to investigate it, Armenia said they would rather have some solid political relations with Turkey in place before doing that.

France said Turkey didn't *have* to admit to it to join the EU according to the rules, but in their opinion they *should* have to.

The US and UK actually don't term it as a "genocide" as such, presumably on the grounds that the intention was not to wipe out every Armenian, but to kill an awful lot of them. A silly technicality i guess. But imo, and the opinion of many Armenians, Turkey goes too far in saying the mass killing or whatever you wanna call it is just your standard losses due to war.

Sparky

[G1223]

D.Rabbit, on Jan 28 2007, 07:43 AM, said:

Let's put the blame where it belongs, on the League of Nations inability to protect the weak and the innocent. On the spiritual leaders who remained silent. As well as the lack of communication that was only beginning to make inroads into what was actually going on behind the scenes.

Oh the hatred of the jews goes much further and deeper. The first time the word Holocaust was used was in Englad during Richard the Lionheart. The jews have been the subject of purges and attempts toend their faith from the Spainish to the Slavs to the Russians to the Germans It was not Just Hitler alone that came up with such terrible reasons for hating the jews.

And to act like the end of WWII brought that all to an end is fallacy. Attacks against Jews have continued in Europe and even in America. So the problem has never stopped.

[Godeskian]

G1223, on Jan 29 2007, 04:49 AM, said:

The first time the word Holocaust was used was in Englad during Richard the Lionheart.

I'm curious as to what your source is for this actually. The best I've ben able to do is find an etymological reference to it as a biblical word for 'burnt offering' but I couldn't find any sort of date to it, nor any reference to the jews prior to WWII

[Chakoteya]

The key words for me in the resolution are "denial of historical facts such as "

They're saying proof MUST override national politics every time. Good luck, Iran, Turkey, Serbia, ...
Now, if we can just get the courage up to STOP these 'ethnic cleansings' or whatever label you want to use instead of holocaust, that would be very nice too.

[G1223]

I was watching the documentry A history of Britian. The cocumentry also talked about one of the captains who had taken a few jews as passengers and when the tide had gone out tricked them into walking along the tidal basin and when the tide came back in pulled up the ladders and told them to call on their god to hold back the waters as Moses had done.

Not one of the finest moments of our past. And not something to blame current day Britians for today.

[Zwolf]

Cool.   I'm against anybody making Holocaust denial illegal, since everybody ought to have the right to embarrass themselves if they want to.  Holocaust deniers are right down there with crackpots who think the moon landing was fake, or that Elvis is still alive, or that the jets that hit the Twin Towers were equipped with missiles, or that John Edwards talks to the dead, or whatever.   Same stuff, just a little more hate-driven.  It's kind of useful to let people wax idiotic over those things, because then you can know that you're dealing with a blind, stupid, isolated idiot, and you don't have to waste your time with 'em much, or, if you wish, take advantage of 'em.  They self-identify, like they've put a sign on themselves.  Helpful!  

But, when Iran goes out of its way to officially declare itself an idiot, it's nice that the international community acknowledges their efforts, thusly.

Cheers,

Zwolf

[The Oncoming Storm]

Godeskian, on Jan 29 2007, 03:16 AM, said:

G1223, on Jan 29 2007, 04:49 AM, said:

The first time the word Holocaust was used was in Englad during Richard the Lionheart.

I'm curious as to what your source is for this actually. The best I've ben able to do is find an etymological reference to it as a biblical word for 'burnt offering' but I couldn't find any sort of date to it, nor any reference to the jews prior to WWII

Did you pull from this, G?

Online Etymological Dictionary--Holocaust

Holocaust is Greek in origin:  "holos" meaning "the whole, entire" and "kaustos" is related to the verb "kaio," which means "to burn."  

The entirety of the entry is fascinating, from an etymological point of view.