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N.O. Mayor Ray Nagin:

Post-Katrina New Orleans Ray Nagin 2007

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#1 The Oncoming Storm

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 12:35 PM

Nagin Suspects A Plot to Keep Blacks Away

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New Orleans Mayor C. Ray Nagin has suggested that the slow recovery and rebuilding of New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina -- which has prevented many black former residents from returning -- is part of a plan to change the racial makeup and political leadership of his and other cities.

Yeah, right.  And Al Sharpton was spot on that the levees were intentionally blown, wasn't he?

It gets even better:  It's a plot directed at him.

Quote

Nagin's remarks Thursday night recalled the controversy stirred up by his prediction in a Martin Luther King Jr. Day speech in 2006 that, despite the evacuation of thousands of black people in the wake of Katrina, New Orleans would once again become a "chocolate city." The mayor later apologized for the comment, which had infuriated many whites and African Americans. Nagin, who won reelection last May over Lt. Gov. Mitch Landrieu, referred obliquely to the "chocolate city" comment at the dinner and suggested that his assertion that New Orleans would once again be a majority-black city had made him a political target.

"Everybody in America started to wake up and say: 'Wait a minute. What is he doing? What is he saying? We have to make sure that this man doesn't go any further,' " Nagin told a room full of black newspaper publishers and editors at the Capital Hilton.

Wow, at the self-delusion self-importance.  Like Nagin's a real political threat.  His "chocolate city" comment, in conjunction with this blather will really get him taken seriously now.  :rolleyes:

Makes me ashamed to be from La.

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#2 Spectacles

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 12:51 PM

I agree that Nagin is an embarrassment. Personally, I've had it with black leaders who play the race card so often and so clumsily. Race is still a genuine problem in America, but every time some goofy conspiracy theory is promoted by a black leader, it sets back the credibility of those who earnestly work to address valid concerns.

And I'm still mad at the guy for dragging his feet on ordering the mandatory evacuation of New Orleans. A lot of this misery lies at his feet, too. I was disappointed to see him re-elected. Of course, I was also disappointed to see Jefferson re-elected, too. I wish that more black voters would be a bit more discerning when they cast their votes and not support someone who pulls this kind of crap. Unfortunately, this kind of crap is what gets many votes, and it ironically usually ends up hurting the very people who fall for it.

That said, the 9th Ward is sitting on prime real estate. I'm sure that developers would love to see it rebuilt as high-priced condos--which would effectively drive lower-income people from the city.

Edited by Spectacles, 18 March 2007 - 12:53 PM.

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#3 Vapor Trails

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 01:05 PM

For me, the real issue is having to rebuild on land that is constantly sinking. If that isn't resolved first, the very idea of rebuilding is a farce. It's nothing more than a blatant example of ass-backwards thinking. :sarcasm:

Edited by Digital Man, 18 March 2007 - 01:08 PM.

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#4 Bobby

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 01:13 PM

View PostDigital Man, on Mar 18 2007, 12:05 PM, said:

For me, the real issue is having to rebuild on land that is constantly sinking. If that isn't resolved first, the very idea of rebuilding is a farce. It's nothing more than a blatant example of ass-backwards thinking. :sarcasm:


Yep, that's the way I feel about it.  They see how much it's costing now and they still want to move back to the same spot.  There might be something to the classism involved but why not just do what those people in that Florida tralier park did, buy low and sell high.

Edited by Life for Rent, 18 March 2007 - 01:14 PM.


#5 Vapor Trails

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 01:57 PM

View PostLife for Rent, on Mar 18 2007, 01:13 PM, said:

View PostDigital Man, on Mar 18 2007, 12:05 PM, said:

For me, the real issue is having to rebuild on land that is constantly sinking. If that isn't resolved first, the very idea of rebuilding is a farce. It's nothing more than a blatant example of ass-backwards thinking. :sarcasm:


Yep, that's the way I feel about it.  They see how much it's costing now and they still want to move back to the same spot.  There might be something to the classism involved but why not just do what those people in that Florida tralier park did, buy low and sell high.


I'm gonna say something that's going to infuriate people, but here it goes...

Who gives a sh!t about New Orleans's history?! Seriously! What's more important-waxing nostalgic about a bygone era, or rebuilding a city on a spot where it will sink into the mud?! Some people need to get their priorities straight. :sarcasm:

I could care less about New Orleans's history. I care about people having a safe place to live. If you don't have that, what else matters?!

Leave history for the history books. Get people a stable place to live, clothes on their backs, jobs and food. :glare:

Edited by Digital Man, 18 March 2007 - 02:02 PM.

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#6 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 02:23 PM

View PostDigital Man, on Mar 18 2007, 02:05 PM, said:

For me, the real issue is having to rebuild on land that is constantly sinking. If that isn't resolved first, the very idea of rebuilding is a farce. It's nothing more than a blatant example of ass-backwards thinking. :sarcasm:

Well if you're thinking of buying a home, and that home happens to be so many feet BELOW sea level...that should be a hint and a half for your a$$...but, I guess some people just don't think.

It would be like building your home at the base of a Volcano...Sooner or later it just might erupt. And if it does, you, IMO, have no right to act surprised.
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#7 Vapor Trails

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 02:43 PM

I'm sure someone is going to come up with "there's no such thing as absolute safety anywhere". While true, you ALSO have to look into the factors involved in a given situation, as well as how thoroughly problems are thought through.

New Orleans looks like a FUBAR case that's continuing to snowball into something worse and worse every passing day. :(
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#8 Balderdash

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 03:58 PM

Having just moved back north recently because I can't afford to live in Louisiana anymore I can give some first hand accounting.  There are thousands of white people that are out of homes too.  It isn't just black people that are screwed but all of the people that live down there.  St. Bernard Parish has barely been touched, they've barely moved the houses out of the streets down there.  The problem is every ones problem including Ray Nagin.  There is more than enough blame to go around for everyone to get a piece.

As far a NOLAs history, well, I have to disagree that it doesn't matter.  I've lived in many places but New Orleans is the richest by far in character and I love that place like no other.  The fact that the city is below sea level doesn't mean squat and too much is made of that, fact is, if the levees had held New Orleans would have suffered moderate damage and folks would have been back in their homes in no time.  The other side of the lake and Mississippi suffered far more from wind damage as we were in the eye of the storm.

Much of what is wrong down there is red tape from top to bottom, people are still waiting for frickin' FEMA in some cases or their insurance companies to get up off their duffs.  It's amazing the amount of finger pointing still going on down there.

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#9 Hibblette

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 04:19 PM

The really sad thing is that eventually there will be investors that will move in and buy up the unused and not worth saving land and suddenly the problem will be solved.  And then there will be this high cost resort that will exist and it will be because they pushed the citizens away and not just the blacks.

It's maddening in my opinion.
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#10 Vapor Trails

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 04:30 PM

View PostBalderdash, on Mar 18 2007, 03:58 PM, said:

As far a NOLAs history, well, I have to disagree that it doesn't matter.  I've lived in many places but New Orleans is the richest by far in character and I love that place like no other.  The fact that the city is below sea level doesn't mean squat and too much is made of that, fact is, if the levees had held New Orleans would have suffered moderate damage and folks would have been back in their homes in no time.  The other side of the lake and Mississippi suffered far more from wind damage as we were in the eye of the storm.

Hey Baldilocks :)

I'm saying that, in terms of what's important, getting people stabilized would be first. In this context, I'm afraid that I must continue to stick with the POV that NOLA's history really doesn't matter right now. What matters is getting people back into some semblance of security. It's been more than a year and a half (?) since Katrina hit, and large parts of NO still look like a bomb hit them.

Right now, poor folks, IMO, can't afford to think about history. They need to think about basic necessites first. That's all I'm saying. And given how FUBAR Bush and his ilk have been in this regard, it's even more imperative IMHO that this is focused on first.

Why do you say that the city being below sea level means squat? My understanding is that NOLA is slowly sinking into the mud. Isn't that a problem that could potentially prove to be far more serious than what happened with Katrina?  :unsure:

Edited by Digital Man, 18 March 2007 - 04:32 PM.

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#11 Balderdash

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 06:33 PM

View PostDigital Man, on Mar 18 2007, 02:30 PM, said:

View PostBalderdash, on Mar 18 2007, 03:58 PM, said:

As far a NOLAs history, well, I have to disagree that it doesn't matter.  I've lived in many places but New Orleans is the richest by far in character and I love that place like no other.  The fact that the city is below sea level doesn't mean squat and too much is made of that, fact is, if the levees had held New Orleans would have suffered moderate damage and folks would have been back in their homes in no time.  The other side of the lake and Mississippi suffered far more from wind damage as we were in the eye of the storm.

Hey Baldilocks :)

I'm saying that, in terms of what's important, getting people stabilized would be first. In this context, I'm afraid that I must continue to stick with the POV that NOLA's history really doesn't matter right now. What matters is getting people back into some semblance of security. It's been more than a year and a half (?) since Katrina hit, and large parts of NO still look like a bomb hit them.

Right now, poor folks, IMO, can't afford to think about history. They need to think about basic necessites first. That's all I'm saying. And given how FUBAR Bush and his ilk have been in this regard, it's even more imperative IMHO that this is focused on first.

Why do you say that the city being below sea level means squat? My understanding is that NOLA is slowly sinking into the mud. Isn't that a problem that could potentially prove to be far more serious than what happened with Katrina?  :unsure:

Most "poor folks" have the things they "need" just not in their home.  And it's not just poor folks it's middle class folks too.  Most want to go home and after all this time there should be more of them doing just that.

The city has always and will always be below sea level but with the canal system, pumps and proper levees that shouldn't be a problem.  The other problem is that storms like Katrina erode the marsh type land that is like a buffer between storm surge and the city, that is the real problem, well, that and levees that actually work.

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#12 SparkyCola

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 07:17 PM

Ok, lots to address.

Below sea level - yeah, most of The Netherlands is below sea level too. They don't seem too bothered by it. As usual it's the "Bad neighbours? Under a volcano? Below sea level? live on a bad street? JUST MOVE!!" over-simplifying. Like it's that simple to just up and leave. Some people have been there all their lives, many are much too poor to move, it's not that easy. Try it yourself and see. Balderdash is right. People who live below sea level can expect flooding every now and then. But what happened in NO is more than "a bit of flooding". Just like Boscastle, what it requires is not adding insult to injury and saying the residents "Well, what did you expect?" Because the answer to that is "we expected the levee to be stronger, as we had been led to believe it would hold". What they need is country-wide support, and I don't know if they got that - but knowing the US, almost certainly they did and still are getting support. I just don't buy this "it's their own fault" nonsense.

History - Yes, the people are more important. But that doesn't mean the history isn't. That kind of culture - it's so precious but in a couple of generations it can be lost completely. If you hold onto it though it can last a very long time indeed, and it's worth holding on to. Putting one thing first doesn't mean you should disregard other things entirely.

Sinking into the mud - Yep, DM's right on that point. They built Winchester Cathedral on a swamp and it started sinking...well duh. Thankfully some clever engineers saved it and it's fine even today. That was over 100 years ago so if they could do it then it must be possible today too. But that's a major problem which seriously needs to be addressed.

Nagin - back to the topic at hand...well...actually I'm so :sarcasm: toward this guy I'm not sure I can dignify his idiocy with a response to be perfectly honest. No offence.

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#13 Rhea

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 08:31 PM

View PostDigital Man, on Mar 18 2007, 12:43 PM, said:

I'm sure someone is going to come up with "there's no such thing as absolute safety anywhere". While true, you ALSO have to look into the factors involved in a given situation, as well as how thoroughly problems are thought through.

New Orleans looks like a FUBAR case that's continuing to snowball into something worse and worse every passing day. :(

I've never understood the mentality. Where I live you should have a geological survey before you buy a house to make sure you're on a stable area. Some people buy houses with great views anyway and their houses slide down the hill. Sorry. No pity.

I can completely understand the way New Orleans just sort of built up over the cemturies. But now that people KNOW what the hell can happen it just doesn't make good sense to rebuild below sea level. Why not paint a target on yourself and play on the freeway? :wacko:
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#14 Vapor Trails

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 09:36 PM

View PostSparkyCola, on Mar 18 2007, 07:17 PM, said:

Ok, lots to address.

Below sea level - yeah, most of The Netherlands is below sea level too. They don't seem too bothered by it. As usual it's the "Bad neighbours? Under a volcano? Below sea level? live on a bad street? JUST MOVE!!" over-simplifying. Like it's that simple to just up and leave. Some people have been there all their lives, many are much too poor to move, it's not that easy. Try it yourself and see. Balderdash is right. People who live below sea level can expect flooding every now and then. But what happened in NO is more than "a bit of flooding". Just like Boscastle, what it requires is not adding insult to injury and saying the residents "Well, what did you expect?" Because the answer to that is "we expected the levee to be stronger, as we had been led to believe it would hold". What they need is country-wide support, and I don't know if they got that - but knowing the US, almost certainly they did and still are getting support. I just don't buy this "it's their own fault" nonsense.

Of course it's a lot easier said than done for the poor. Did I imply otherwise? The problems are as follows:

1) Not paying close attention to the environment and solutions to potential problems that can occur.
2) Not taking into regard the problems faced by the poor.

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History - Yes, the people are more important. But that doesn't mean the history isn't. That kind of culture - it's so precious but in a couple of generations it can be lost completely. If you hold onto it though it can last a very long time indeed, and it's worth holding on to. Putting one thing first doesn't mean you should disregard other things entirely.

We'll have to agree to disagree. If holding onto history means putting people in jeporady, in terms of being able to provide them with the basics and an infrastructure that can help the most vulnerable, then I can't disagree more strongly with you.

Quote

Sinking into the mud - Yep, DM's right on that point. They built Winchester Cathedral on a swamp and it started sinking...well duh. Thankfully some clever engineers saved it and it's fine even today. That was over 100 years ago so if they could do it then it must be possible today too. But that's a major problem which seriously needs to be addressed.

And the key point here is being able to solve the problem in a realistic way. Humans have a tendency towards arrogance as well as short-sightedness. It's why we have the disaster that resulted from Katrina. And this disaster is likely to repeat itself, because humans are slow to learn things. We also tend to think we can beat Nature at its own game. The best we can do is stall for time.
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#15 Mel

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Posted 19 March 2007 - 01:13 AM

View PostSparkyCola, on Mar 18 2007, 07:17 PM, said:

Ok, lots to address.

Below sea level - yeah, most of The Netherlands is below sea level too. They don't seem too bothered by it. As usual it's the "Bad neighbours? Under a volcano? Below sea level? live on a bad street? JUST MOVE!!" over-simplifying. Like it's that simple to just up and leave. Some people have been there all their lives, many are much too poor to move, it's not that easy. Try it yourself and see. Balderdash is right. People who live below sea level can expect flooding every now and then. But what happened in NO is more than "a bit of flooding". Just like Boscastle, what it requires is not adding insult to injury and saying the residents "Well, what did you expect?" Because the answer to that is "we expected the levee to be stronger, as we had been led to believe it would hold". What they need is country-wide support, and I don't know if they got that - but knowing the US, almost certainly they did and still are getting support. I just don't buy this "it's their own fault" nonsense.

Sparky

The residents of NO might could have expected the NO levees to hold for Katrina, but they should have known they were gambling.  However, it isn't correct to say that the residents didn't know that the levees could fail--or at least they should have known.  Because of costs, the levees weren't built strong enough or tall enough to handle a hurricane stronger than a Category 3.  That was widely known.  

There were reports out years before Katrina hit detailing the possibility of the levees failing.  FEMA declared a hurricane hitting NO one of the top 3 most likely disasters back in 2001.  The Times-Picayune (NO's newspaper) had a series of articles called Washing Away that came out in 2002 that covered what could happen if a hurricane struck NO.  

Granted, the risks the article described mainly discussed the risks of overtopped levees and what actualy happened was a breached levee, but when the Katrina evacuation was called, it wasn't at all clear that the storm wouldn't overtop the levees.  Overtopping or breach, the description was very accurate (except that enough people got out to make the death toll relatively low compared to what the article predicted).  

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If enough water from Lake Pontchartrain topped the levee system along its south shore, the result would be apocalyptic. Vast areas would be submerged for days or weeks until engineers dynamited the levees to let the water escape. Some places on the east bank of Orleans and Jefferson parishes are as low as 10 feet below sea level. Adding a 20-foot storm surge from a Category 4 or 5 storm would mean 30 feet of standing water.

Whoever remained in the city would be at grave risk. According to the American Red Cross, a likely death toll would be between 25,000 and 100,000 people, dwarfing estimated death tolls for other natural disasters and all but the most nightmarish potential terrorist attacks. Tens of thousands more would be stranded on rooftops and high ground, awaiting rescue that could take days or longer. They would face thirst, hunger and exposure to toxic chemicals.

"We don't know where the pipelines are, and you have the landfills, oil and gas facilities, abandoned brine pits, hardware stores, gas stations, the chemicals in our houses," said Ivor van Heerden, assistant director of the LSU Hurricane Center. "We have no idea what people will be exposed to. You're looking at the proverbial witch's brew of chemicals."

Look, I live right on the Gulf Coast (not water front, but still within storm surge range if you're talking a Katrina or Rita size storm).  I get why people take the risks they do (we live were we do for work/school related reasons), but that doesn't change the fact that when you live in certain areas you are assuming very high risks.  When Rita came through, we faced a very real possibility of losing everything that we couldn't evacuate with us.  We got really lucky when the storm turned, but when we left, we knew we might be coming back to a bare lot (or one filled with rubble).   I don't know what it's like to lose everything, but depending on the hurricane season in the next couple of years, I may still get to find out.  If we do lose it all in a storm, it will be a combination of being unlucky and the natural consequences of our choices.   We've done what we can to mitigate our risks--we have all the necessary insurances, we live behind a seawall, we have hurricane shutters, etc, etc--but ultimately we're choosing to gamble with nature.  We think our odds are pretty good (although I'm not sure we would have made the same choices if we'd bought our house after the 2005 hurricane season), but we may lose.  

The people in NO made the same gamble we're making.  Their odds were pretty good too.  NO had been missed for years.  They finally lost.  Yeah, some of them were too poor to move, but a lot of them made the choice to stay.  They probably had good reasons--they'd lived there all their lives, their family was there, their jobs were there--but ultimately, they made a choice.  I might have made the same choice, but that doesn't take away the fact that at least part of the responsibility is theirs.  It would have been great if the federal government had built stronger levees, but they didn't and, well, everyone knew they didn't, so while you can and IMO, should critize the government for their cost cutting measures and disregard for safety, if you know that corners have been cut, and still choose to live there, again, you are making the choice.

#16 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 19 March 2007 - 01:25 AM

^

I think comedian Carlos Mecina said it best: "You see the water rising, and a bus going through your neighborhood....GET on the bus!"

Not that the buses would've helped much, since they would've been stuck in the massive traffic jams...But that's when you start walking towards higher ground.

Yes, the government should've built better levees...But, as sad as it is to say...If you're trusting others to look out after your wellbeing...you're looking to get screwed over....especially if it's the government that's suppose to be looking after you.

It's harsh, but the bottom line is: You have to look after yourself, nobody is going to do it for you.
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#17 The Oncoming Storm

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Posted 19 March 2007 - 09:09 AM

The other thing about NO that's being overlooked is the fact that city accounted for nearly a 1/3 of LA's total income:  from imports, exports, tourism, etc.  The history, which you have so greatly put down DM, was necessary to the state's survival.  Hotel taxes, resterauant taxes, liquor taxes. . .you name it, NO provided it for La.  People came from all over the world, not just the US, for the history that NO has.  Jazz, The French Quarter, Bourbon/Canal Streets, the National WWII Museum (what used to be the DDay Museum), and hundreds of other things that NO had that people wanted to see that I can't even begin to list.  

But, aside from the loss of history (and the subsequent tourism) that Katrina's aftermath still threatens, the Port of NO is still recovering.  It was the largest US Port on the Gulf Coast and the gateway to one of the largest petrochemical refining areas in the US.  The loss of business in this area (combined with the affects of Rita on the Lake Charles area) have thoroughly crippled La's economy in ways most states couldn't even imagine.  The only comparable comparison I could think of is to have both the movie industry and the wine industry in California suddenly both dry up at the same time.  California would be crippled immeasurably if Hollywood relocated and if the Napa Valley suddenly fell off production to zero.  That's what happened to La.:  NO tourism has diminished and the petrochemical industries in the state took a severe hit in both major refining areas.  

To say that the history of NO is not worth saving is speaking from a position of ignorance.  Philosophically speaking, what are we, as a people, but the sum of our history?  We cling to our heritage because it has defined and shaped us; it's made us who we are.  NO has a significantly distinct history that no other city could boast about:  French built capital of French Louisiana; given the Spanish; influenced both architecturally and culturally by the Spanish; sold back to France; sold to the US by Napoleon; it was the first key port taken by the Union in 1862 to close off the MS River to the Confederates; birth place of Jazz and Louis Armstrong; birth place of Andrew J. Higgins and the LCVP (Higgins Boat); and there's more I could go into that's of immense value to New Orleanians and many more people across the US.  People, because of that history, trekked to NO, bringing their dollars and business to the city and infused money into the local and state economies at all times of the year, not just Mardi Gras.  

It's the same kind of reasons people to go Philly, NY, Detroit, Chicago, St. Louis, and a host of other cities across the country.  So, before you completely deride the history these people cherish (and have lost a good deal of) think about what that history does for the entirety of the state before you say, "Shelve it."

Rose: [disgusted] Oh, look at what the cat dragged in: "The Oncoming Storm."

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." -- John Wayne


Sometimes the best causes worth fighting for are lost causes. -- Me.

Formerly Known as "Lost Cause."


#18 Vapor Trails

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Posted 19 March 2007 - 11:45 AM

View PostLost Cause, on Mar 19 2007, 09:09 AM, said:

The other thing about NO that's being overlooked is the fact that city accounted for nearly a 1/3 of LA's total income:  from imports, exports, tourism, etc.  The history, which you have so greatly put down DM, was necessary to the state's survival.  Hotel taxes, resterauant taxes, liquor taxes. . .you name it, NO provided it for La.  People came from all over the world, not just the US, for the history that NO has.  Jazz, The French Quarter, Bourbon/Canal Streets, the National WWII Museum (what used to be the DDay Museum), and hundreds of other things that NO had that people wanted to see that I can't even begin to list.  

But, aside from the loss of history (and the subsequent tourism) that Katrina's aftermath still threatens, the Port of NO is still recovering.  It was the largest US Port on the Gulf Coast and the gateway to one of the largest petrochemical refining areas in the US.  The loss of business in this area (combined with the affects of Rita on the Lake Charles area) have thoroughly crippled La's economy in ways most states couldn't even imagine.  The only comparable comparison I could think of is to have both the movie industry and the wine industry in California suddenly both dry up at the same time.  California would be crippled immeasurably if Hollywood relocated and if the Napa Valley suddenly fell off production to zero.  That's what happened to La.:  NO tourism has diminished and the petrochemical industries in the state took a severe hit in both major refining areas.  

To say that the history of NO is not worth saving is speaking from a position of ignorance.  Philosophically speaking, what are we, as a people, but the sum of our history?  We cling to our heritage because it has defined and shaped us; it's made us who we are.  NO has a significantly distinct history that no other city could boast about:  French built capital of French Louisiana; given the Spanish; influenced both architecturally and culturally by the Spanish; sold back to France; sold to the US by Napoleon; it was the first key port taken by the Union in 1862 to close off the MS River to the Confederates; birth place of Jazz and Louis Armstrong; birth place of Andrew J. Higgins and the LCVP (Higgins Boat); and there's more I could go into that's of immense value to New Orleanians and many more people across the US.  People, because of that history, trekked to NO, bringing their dollars and business to the city and infused money into the local and state economies at all times of the year, not just Mardi Gras.  

It's the same kind of reasons people to go Philly, NY, Detroit, Chicago, St. Louis, and a host of other cities across the country.  So, before you completely deride the history these people cherish (and have lost a good deal of) think about what that history does for the entirety of the state before you say, "Shelve it."

I get the sense that you were insulted by my comments, regarding NOLA's history. While it's true that I can be a very blunt, no-nonsense person, I have to say that in this case, no insult was intended.

There's no denying the richness of NOLA's history. However, I still stand by my POV that if you don't secure a reasonably safe environment for the citizens, what is the point of thinking about history?

The problems NOLA has need to REALLY be looked at with a fine-toothed comb, not in some half-assed way. Frankly, I place the blame squarely on the government officials. The ones in charge with looking over NOLA's welfare have to look at the problems and deal with them in a realistic way.

If folks don't get their act together, there won't BE any more history to make. :(
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#19 The Oncoming Storm

The Oncoming Storm

    Water's wet; sky's blue; and Satan Clause is out there.

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Posted 19 March 2007 - 02:05 PM

View PostDigital Man, on Mar 19 2007, 12:45 PM, said:

View PostLost Cause, on Mar 19 2007, 09:09 AM, said:

The other thing about NO that's being overlooked is the fact that city accounted for nearly a 1/3 of LA's total income: from imports, exports, tourism, etc. The history, which you have so greatly put down DM, was necessary to the state's survival. Hotel taxes, resterauant taxes, liquor taxes. . .you name it, NO provided it for La. People came from all over the world, not just the US, for the history that NO has. Jazz, The French Quarter, Bourbon/Canal Streets, the National WWII Museum (what used to be the DDay Museum), and hundreds of other things that NO had that people wanted to see that I can't even begin to list.

But, aside from the loss of history (and the subsequent tourism) that Katrina's aftermath still threatens, the Port of NO is still recovering. It was the largest US Port on the Gulf Coast and the gateway to one of the largest petrochemical refining areas in the US. The loss of business in this area (combined with the affects of Rita on the Lake Charles area) have thoroughly crippled La's economy in ways most states couldn't even imagine. The only comparable comparison I could think of is to have both the movie industry and the wine industry in California suddenly both dry up at the same time. California would be crippled immeasurably if Hollywood relocated and if the Napa Valley suddenly fell off production to zero. That's what happened to La.: NO tourism has diminished and the petrochemical industries in the state took a severe hit in both major refining areas.

To say that the history of NO is not worth saving is speaking from a position of ignorance. Philosophically speaking, what are we, as a people, but the sum of our history? We cling to our heritage because it has defined and shaped us; it's made us who we are. NO has a significantly distinct history that no other city could boast about: French built capital of French Louisiana; given the Spanish; influenced both architecturally and culturally by the Spanish; sold back to France; sold to the US by Napoleon; it was the first key port taken by the Union in 1862 to close off the MS River to the Confederates; birth place of Jazz and Louis Armstrong; birth place of Andrew J. Higgins and the LCVP (Higgins Boat); and there's more I could go into that's of immense value to New Orleanians and many more people across the US. People, because of that history, trekked to NO, bringing their dollars and business to the city and infused money into the local and state economies at all times of the year, not just Mardi Gras.

It's the same kind of reasons people to go Philly, NY, Detroit, Chicago, St. Louis, and a host of other cities across the country. So, before you completely deride the history these people cherish (and have lost a good deal of) think about what that history does for the entirety of the state before you say, "Shelve it."

I get the sense that you were insulted by my comments, regarding NOLA's history. While it's true that I can be a very blunt, no-nonsense person, I have to say that in this case, no insult was intended.

There's no denying the richness of NOLA's history. However, I still stand by my POV that if you don't secure a reasonably safe environment for the citizens, what is the point of thinking about history?

The problems NOLA has need to REALLY be looked at with a fine-toothed comb, not in some half-assed way. Frankly, I place the blame squarely on the government officials. The ones in charge with looking over NOLA's welfare have to look at the problems and deal with them in a realistic way.

If folks don't get their act together, there won't BE any more history to make. :(
I'm not insulted.  It's just that the state's economy is tightly tied in many ways to NO's history and it's draw.  It's a situation that, "If NO suffers, La. suffers."

Rose: [disgusted] Oh, look at what the cat dragged in: "The Oncoming Storm."

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." -- John Wayne


Sometimes the best causes worth fighting for are lost causes. -- Me.

Formerly Known as "Lost Cause."


#20 SparkyCola

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Posted 19 March 2007 - 02:22 PM

Quote

We'll have to agree to disagree. If holding onto history means putting people in jeporady, in terms of being able to provide them with the basics and an infrastructure that can help the most vulnerable, then I can't disagree more strongly with you.

I can't help but feel you sorta...missed my point. I agree with you - on the whole. I agree that human life is considerably more important than history. The point is though - you can put that as your highest, number one priority and STILL take history into account, in all that you do. I'm sure there are archaeologists and historians who haven't got a clue how to build a house or heal people, but there's one area they DO specialise in - and they can do that while people who DO know how to build houses are doing that. There's no NEED to be overly-dismissive of it. Just because it's not top on the agenda doesn't mean it's not important in any way whatsoever.

That's just how I feel about it anyhow.

Sparky
Able to entertain a thought without taking it home to meet the parents



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