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N.O. Mayor Ray Nagin:

Post-Katrina New Orleans Ray Nagin 2007

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#21 Kosh

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Posted 19 March 2007 - 03:41 PM

The City, State and Corp of Engineers have been destroying NOLA for years. Starting with cutting off the water to the nateral storm breaker, the wet lands around the coast that took the brunt of storms. If they were still what they were years ago, NOLA may still be standing today. If the Levey were opened to allow fresh water to reach the area again, it might recover, maybe.

But it's not, and until the Mayor  and the Governor are gone. Not sure how Nagin was elected this time, except that none of the Candidates stood out. I watched them debate one night on MSNBC, and thought then that Nagin might win again, and he pulled it off.
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#22 Vapor Trails

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Posted 19 March 2007 - 05:41 PM

View PostSparkyCola, on Mar 19 2007, 02:22 PM, said:

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We'll have to agree to disagree. If holding onto history means putting people in jeporady, in terms of being able to provide them with the basics and an infrastructure that can help the most vulnerable, then I can't disagree more strongly with you.

I can't help but feel you sorta...missed my point. I agree with you - on the whole. I agree that human life is considerably more important than history. The point is though - you can put that as your highest, number one priority and STILL take history into account, in all that you do. I'm sure there are archaeologists and historians who haven't got a clue how to build a house or heal people, but there's one area they DO specialise in - and they can do that while people who DO know how to build houses are doing that. There's no NEED to be overly-dismissive of it. Just because it's not top on the agenda doesn't mean it's not important in any way whatsoever.

That's just how I feel about it anyhow.

Sparky

And again Sparky-I understand the value of history. I really do. But I'm standing my ground on this one. Feed people first. Clothe them. Give them food, social services, housing, health care, and so on and so forth. This is ESPECIALLY important regarding the poorest and most desperate.

Once THAT is solidifed enough, then come back and talk to me about history. I'm not saying history isn't important. What I AM saying is that a person who is a diabetic and has been having problems getting the insulin he needs is focused on getting his insulin. A single mom, who was widowed and has lost her home, has to figure out how to feed, clothe and house herself and her kids-as well as getting a job. Folks in these circumstances don't have the time or luxury to think about history, and there are TOO MANY of them. NOLA is TOO MESSED UP right now.

When the infrastructure I'm talking about is reasonably stablized, THEN bring the archaeologists and historians in. Not before. Feel free to agree to disagree. But I'm not budging from this position.

Edited by Digital Man, 19 March 2007 - 05:43 PM.

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#23 Rhea

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Posted 19 March 2007 - 07:21 PM

I was thinking about the constant comparison between the Netherlands and New Orleans. I believe that the Netherlands doesn't suffer from weather that has quite the ferocity of the hurricanes that batter NO every year. Off to see..

ARGH! Most of my post was lost.

This may help:

http://www.bbc.co.uk...tml?tt=TT005670

Quote

Gales are quite frequent on the coast, particularly in autumn and winter. The flat countryside makes the Netherlands a rather windy place at all times of the year. In the past this aspect of the weather was fully utilised by the Dutch, who built numerous windmills to pump water from the low-lying land reclaimed from the sea and the rivers.

On rare occasions in the past severe northerly gales have whipped up storm waves and a tidal surge in the North Sea sufficiently high to batter and breach the coastal dykes. This last flood occurred in January 1953 with disastrous consequences, inundating land below sea level and causing great loss of life.

In other words, while they have storms every winter the last time they had one big enough to batter the dykes was 1953!! The weather overall is temperate but windy, and winters on the coast are generally mild.

The constant comparison of NO to the Netherlands just doesn't hold up. The weather is nothing alike, nor is the frequency of severe storms.

Edited by Rhea, 19 March 2007 - 07:30 PM.

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#24 Vapor Trails

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Posted 20 March 2007 - 10:52 AM

Interesting post, Rhea. Thanks. :cool:
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#25 Vapor Trails

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Posted 20 March 2007 - 11:10 AM

View PostBalderdash, on Mar 18 2007, 06:33 PM, said:

The city has always and will always be below sea level but with the canal system, pumps and proper levees that shouldn't be a problem.  The other problem is that storms like Katrina erode the marsh type land that is like a buffer between storm surge and the city, that is the real problem, well, that and levees that actually work.

The question that comes to mind is-are the things put in place to protect NOLA a real deterrent, or is it giving NOLA folks a false sense of security? To compound this factor is the ineptitude of people who played a factor in the current disaster in NOLA.

I'm reminded of Kansai Airport in Japan. There was no room on the mainland to build an airport, so the Japanese basically created an artificial island. This island, BTW, is sinking. There is an elaborate system of jacks underneath to keep the airport above water.

Now, keep in mind that Japan is in the Pacific Ring of Fire-a very geologically active area. If I recall correctly, Japan is sitting on three fault lines. We've also had the temblor that was responsible for the tsunamis that killed nearly a quarter of a million people near the end of 2004. And there was also the explosion of the island of Krakatoa in 1883. There were 3 volcanic islands. Two of them blew up, killing 36,000 people. The noise that was created was said to be the loudest noise ever recorded.

No offense-but Kansai Airport looks like a disaster waiting to happen. :(

Using technology is laudable, but, as Clint Eastwood said, "A man has gotta know his limitations." It's one thing to have ideas about creating protection, but the ideas have to be backed up by science, knowledge of the environment, and political will.

And as I said before, humans have a tendency towards arrogance. That has gotten them in trouble quite a few times, in terms of not using technology properly.
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Politicians are like bananas; they hang together, they're all yellow, and there's not a straight one among them.

"We're relevant for $ and a vote once every two years. Beyond that, we're completely irrelevant, except of course to consume, and preach the gospel according to [insert political demigod here]."--Cait

#26 SparkyCola

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Posted 20 March 2007 - 11:21 AM

I understand DM :)

Rhea- I imagine houses in areas with a high risk of flooding etc. are cheaper than houses in NYC. It comes back to money in the end I reckon. Thing is, if you're used to storms and floods and batterings, you're used to it. It's still your home. If you're too poor to move, if your livelihood is where you live, you don't have much choice. I mean, what about the San Andreas fault? I don't see any mass migrations happening there, and they KNOW FULL WELL something disastrous could happen at any moment. In the end, people are sheep. If they look around at their neighbours and see they're not moving, they won't either. I just think it's callous to say "Meh, what did they expect?".

Sparky
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