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"Study: Alcohol, Tobacco Worse Than Drugs"

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#41 Pywacket

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 01:04 PM

View PostNonny, on Mar 26 2007, 10:00 AM, said:

View PostKosh, on Mar 26 2007, 09:25 AM, said:

View PostSpidey, on Mar 24 2007, 10:20 PM, said:

A moot point for me since I believe that ALL drugs are bad for you.  That includes tobacco, and so forth.  Alcohol can be good for you though.  A glass of red wine during dinner is good for your heart.  White whine is good for your blood pressure or something.  I can't remember.  But binging on alcohol isn't good for you, so drink it wisely.


A doctor told me, three to five glasses a week are good for you, at least red wine. Less then three and you don't get the benifit, more then five, and it's too much alcohol. Most people can't stick to that, so you are better off not drinking.
Someone did a study to find out if grape juice provides the same benefit as red wine, and discovered that, yes, concord grape juice does.  

Nonny
Oh gag :crazy:.  I don't know what happened in my childhood but just the smell of grape juice makes me gag.  On the other hand, I can deal with a glass of red wine with dinner.  ;)

I knew people who went through one or two six-packs of beer every night and still worked the next day.  On weekends  it was more and often included hard liquor.  Most people never knew they were alcoholics.  At least not until they started drinking before work.

I worked with a woman who regularly called in to say she was going to be late for work.  Since she overslept she was going to have breakfast and then come in.  Breakfast always consisted of two bloody marys - that were mostly alcohol.  She was prefectly capable of performing her duties - and was actually in a better mood than those mornings when she didn't kick-start her day.  On those days, she went out for lunch and returned "glowing" from her "just one bloody Mary at lunch."

There's a lot more alcoholism happening than just those guys drunk in the alley or panhandling on the street.

Pywacket
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#42 Kosh

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 04:06 PM

View PostNonny, on Mar 26 2007, 01:00 PM, said:

View PostKosh, on Mar 26 2007, 09:25 AM, said:

View PostSpidey, on Mar 24 2007, 10:20 PM, said:

A moot point for me since I believe that ALL drugs are bad for you.  That includes tobacco, and so forth.  Alcohol can be good for you though.  A glass of red wine during dinner is good for your heart.  White whine is good for your blood pressure or something.  I can't remember.  But binging on alcohol isn't good for you, so drink it wisely.


A doctor told me, three to five glasses a week are good for you, at least red wine. Less then three and you don't get the benifit, more then five, and it's too much alcohol. Most people can't stick to that, so you are better off not drinking.
Someone did a study to find out if grape juice provides the same benefit as red wine, and discovered that, yes, concord grape juice does.  

Nonny




I tried the wine for a while, but I wasn't aways getting the three glasses in a week, so I stopped. I used to drink to excess once in a while, but wiht the perscription, I can only have one, so I don't bother often.
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#43 Themis

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 10:58 PM

View Postilexx, on Mar 26 2007, 08:04 AM, said:

We don't eat and drink alone, we don't eat and drink reading newspapers or in front of the tv, we mostly don't eat and drink quickly. You come home, you start cooking for the entire family

There are no singles in your part of the world?  Nobody who lives alone?  Nobody without a family?  If there are any singles, people who live alone and/or people without a family, do they not eat, never have a drink??  (And just who is it that's doing that cooking for the entire family?  Probably not dad... )  I'm single, I live alone and I don't have a family.  What would I do??

Also, while I wish it weren't true, the American fast-food restaurants now blanket the globe.  Somebody besides American tourists must be eating in them.

However, when I think of European culture in general, I do think of drinks and food together rather than people going out just to drink - and if they do, not with the intent of drinking too much.  But everything changes...
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#44 Rhea

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 11:48 PM

View PostThemis, on Mar 26 2007, 08:58 PM, said:

However, when I think of European culture in general, I do think of drinks and food together rather than people going out just to drink - and if they do, not with the intent of drinking too much.  But everything changes...

I always do too. Except England. Dear Lord, can those guys drink! I did a regular consulting job for a software firm in Sussex for several years. The programmers always hauled me to the pub at 6 pm, and they were knocking back pints while I'd nurse a whisky (which is delicious there, tasted like it was made with very soft water -might have been Irish, come to think of it - and they serve it in a small snifter like brandy). Then we'd go home and the partner and his wife would have wine with their dinner. :eek:

They catered lunches and always offered wine and beer with the lunches (sandwiches true to English form - cucumber, tomato, watercress, and turkey with cranberry jelly).  (Beer, IMO, is a killer both in calories and in the quantity of consumption I've often seen among beer drinkers.) True wimp that I am, I had a glass of white wine with lunch - and then dozed off in solitary splendor in the 15th century bakery where they'd set up my computer - just me and the look of history past and the smell of loaves past, and I zonked right out.

I swear, I've never seen so much booze as in England!  :blink:

That's why I absolutely believe SparkyCola about the booze problem in the UK.

Unfortunately, the English booze like we do (or vice verse) - beer/cocktails before dinner, drinks with dinner, etc., while places like Italy and France generally have wine with food. I had Swiss German neighbors for a while in Austin and I adored them. For them, it was a glass of wine with dinner and if you had company, another glass during several hours of conversation. And most French aperitifs are really digestive aids of one kind or another.

I'm a booze wimp, which is a mercy being the child of an alcoholic father. My brother inherited the alcoholic gene, and although he's been sober for many years, I remember what a fight it was for him to get that way. I count my blessings every day that booze and I don't like each other, because that's one battle I'm profoundly grateful not to have to face.

While we're rhapsodizing about Europe, let's not forget that includes the Scandanavian countries, where consumption of hard liquor skyrockets during those long winters. Not everybody's a big believer in moderation. Must be all the snow.... :p

And now that I think about it, I can further that theory, having spent a miserable two weeks in Anchorage right before Christmas one year. The road from the airport to downtown is, so I'm told, lined with whorehouses on either side! Entertainment there apparently consists of movie theatres, whorehouses, girly shows and drinking. The hotel restaurants are usually empty but the bars do a booming business! This just goes to show ya - a long, cold winter apparently demands serious booze (and possibly serious whoring, judging by the Anchorage night life.). They think of themselves as very much a bush town - a sort of Wild West mentality - and it shows. I understand you can do cool things in the summer, like ski down Mendenhall glacier. YES! Unfortunately, I only made two business trips to Anchorage, and both were during the winter nasties. If I'd stayed much longer, I would have been knocking back Stoli shots with the best of 'em. Fortunately, I was rescued in the nick of time.

Edited by Rhea, 27 March 2007 - 12:03 AM.

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#45 ilexx

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Posted 27 March 2007 - 02:51 AM

^That's why I was pointing out that there are major differences between Northern and Southern Europe.


View PostThemis, on Mar 27 2007, 05:58 AM, said:

View Postilexx, on Mar 26 2007, 08:04 AM, said:

We don't eat and drink alone, we don't eat and drink reading newspapers or in front of the tv, we mostly don't eat and drink quickly. You come home, you start cooking for the entire family

There are no singles in your part of the world?  Nobody who lives alone?  Nobody without a family?  If there are any singles, people who live alone and/or people without a family, do they not eat, never have a drink??  (And just who is it that's doing that cooking for the entire family?  Probably not dad... )  I'm single, I live alone and I don't have a family.  What would I do??

Also, while I wish it weren't true, the American fast-food restaurants now blanket the globe.  Somebody besides American tourists must be eating in them.

However, when I think of European culture in general, I do think of drinks and food together rather than people going out just to drink - and if they do, not with the intent of drinking too much.  But everything changes...

Yes, there are a lot of singles in Europe, but again: the further North you get, the more singles you find. My part of the world is currently Germany and has been England and Holland prior to that. And I am well aware of the problems alcohol causes around here. But I also know that it goes hand in hand with the fact that people are really getting solitary, spending their free time too much on their own instead of with others.

As to the singles in Southern Europe... plenty of them there, too. But again, things are a bit different. Eating in larger numbers means that it really doesn't matter much if there are six or seven seated around a table. Even if you're single: you have a family, parents (in fact a lot of singles in Southern Europe often live with their parents), friends you get to see on an almost daily basis. We simply tend to live in flocks.

And the cooking, yes: in my experience it's really sort of a messy get-together with someone stirring something, another doing a great show of opening the wine and lecturing about it, kid/kids assigned to chop something or other, people washing salad while eating half of it up, the women saying things like 'No, don't do it like that!' while the men get to drop the plates - and the single friend staying around and acting like Paul Bocuse, giving statements along the line of 'Why don't you people use Dead Sea-salt?...' That's not an everyday scene, but you get to be part of it 3-4 times a week. Kind of explains why we need big kitchens. And appreciate the time we have to ourselves only.

#46 Nonny

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Posted 27 March 2007 - 07:16 AM

View PostRhea, on Mar 26 2007, 09:48 PM, said:

They think of themselves as very much a bush town ....
In many senses of the word?   :whistle:

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#47 Themis

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Posted 27 March 2007 - 09:51 AM

View Postilexx, on Mar 27 2007, 07:51 AM, said:

(snip) the further North you get, the more singles you find.

(snip)Even if you're single: you have a family, parents (in fact a lot of singles in Southern Europe often live with their parents), friends you get to see on an almost daily basis. We simply tend to live in flocks.

Maybe it's the US "wide open spaces"?  We don't seem to live in flocks over here.  May be different in those few US cities like NYC where people aren't car-dependent.   Why would there be more singles further north???  Just curious!  Again, I'm single, no parents and my closest cousins are 2000 miles away.  There's nobody in my situation in southern Europe???  Methinks you generalize too much.   OTOH, the US is hard on singles - all the restaurant coupons and travel discounts etc. are for two people.   I do think single living might lead to more imbibing if one is single and lonely.

The UK, yes - it's become almost like a sport.  And on beer - I can't drink that much beer!  (Except at hot outdoor festivals where the beer is icy cold and sweats right out of me!)  On the message boards of a certain UK sci-fi con organizer, part of the planning for cons seems to be planning to get smashed.  It happens at US cons, but doesn't seem to be part of the planning and anticipation.  (A member of a group that frequents those cons posts here so you've seen their logo, which includes the proud statement "drinking bars dry for ... years" [exact quote escapes me], which offends me no end.).  I wonder if it has anything to do with the UK strict enforcement of drunk driving laws so people freed from their car for a short period of time plan to overindulge?  I've personally never seen the attraction of intentionally getting drunk...I've accidentally overindulged several times over my life and the next day is a miserable experience - why would someone do that intentionally??
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#48 ilexx

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 01:58 AM

View PostThemis, on Mar 27 2007, 04:51 PM, said:

View Postilexx, on Mar 27 2007, 07:51 AM, said:

(snip) the further North you get, the more singles you find.

(snip)Even if you're single: you have a family, parents (in fact a lot of singles in Southern Europe often live with their parents), friends you get to see on an almost daily basis. We simply tend to live in flocks.

Maybe it's the US "wide open spaces"?  We don't seem to live in flocks over here.  May be different in those few US cities like NYC where people aren't car-dependent.   Why would there be more singles further north???  Just curious!  Again, I'm single, no parents and my closest cousins are 2000 miles away.  There's nobody in my situation in southern Europe???  Methinks you generalize too much.   OTOH, the US is hard on singles - all the restaurant coupons and travel discounts etc. are for two people.   I do think single living might lead to more imbibing if one is single and lonely.

The UK, yes - it's become almost like a sport.  And on beer - I can't drink that much beer!  (Except at hot outdoor festivals where the beer is icy cold and sweats right out of me!)  On the message boards of a certain UK sci-fi con organizer, part of the planning for cons seems to be planning to get smashed.  It happens at US cons, but doesn't seem to be part of the planning and anticipation.  (A member of a group that frequents those cons posts here so you've seen their logo, which includes the proud statement "drinking bars dry for ... years" [exact quote escapes me], which offends me no end.).  I wonder if it has anything to do with the UK strict enforcement of drunk driving laws so people freed from their car for a short period of time plan to overindulge?  I've personally never seen the attraction of intentionally getting drunk...I've accidentally overindulged several times over my life and the next day is a miserable experience - why would someone do that intentionally??

Hm... highjacking the thread a bit...

Of course it's a generalized overview... As long as we talk about such thing, we place the habits of the majority more or less like a glass bell over the entire society, disregarding the minorities... It's what happens when you talk a 'European' or 'American' or whatever way-of-life, and not the way-of-life of a certain European or American, etc.

About Northern Europe: It's rather simple, really. The social security systems are far better in Northern and Western than Southern and Eastern Europe; they've been so for quite a while, reaching this amazing level they display today around the mid-sixties. The downside is that with time it's eroded the 'large family'-structure and the need to entertain in social relationships with neighbours, friends, relatives, colleagues etc. There are a couple of other reasons, too, like the climate, for instance, that makes Southerners spending most of their free time outside their houses, like the more extrovert temperament (again... generalizing, but by and large it's easier to start a conversation with a French than with a German you  never met) etc.

As to the alcohol consumption: I think Rhea's observations with Anchorage are just as valid for the UK, Scandinavia etc. It's dark, cold, rainy over a longer period of time than Milan or Dubrovnik - and it's a lot darker and colder, too. I remember distinctly that when I moved to Germany I simply couldn't get warm in the first two years - and no central heating could change that. I was a child, so no one served me alcohol to fight the coldness, but before central heating etc. it might have started that way and turned into a habit.



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