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Smoker arrested

Smoking Smoker Arrested 2007 Texas

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#21 Hibblette

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Posted 06 April 2007 - 08:57 PM

But see LotS we are being overcome by those that know what's good for all of us.  WE don't have the right to think on our own anymore.  

They know whats best for all of us.  Sure it's your money that buys the ciggies and so what if you are now going outside to smoke-now that we have you trained to this they say nope can't do that so it's back to smoking and hiding.

Where's the best place to hide?  Why inside of course.  You sneak around and smoke.
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#22 Jazzer

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Posted 07 April 2007 - 12:15 AM

BTW, thanks to those who clarified that the arrest was for his not showing up at court.  I didn't make that clear.  My personal focus was more on some broader issues about government (local, state, or federal) regulating our behavior, but I didn't really make that clear, either.  :look:  I'm certainly for the usual laws against things that are hurtful to other people.  But sometimes I get concerned about governments trying to micro-manage some things too much.  (Maybe that would be better for a spin-off thread sometime.)


View PostHibblette, on Apr 6 2007, 08:57 PM, said:

But see LotS we are being overcome by those that know what's good for all of us.  WE don't have the right to think on our own anymore.  

They know whats best for all of us.  Sure it's your money that buys the ciggies and so what if you are now going outside to smoke-now that we have you trained to this they say nope can't do that so it's back to smoking and hiding.

Where's the best place to hide?  Why inside of course.  You sneak around and smoke.
I think what troubles me about all this is wondering how far regulations of our behavior will keep going.  I was a bit surprised by the intensity of my own reaction about the guy being arrested, but I think it's because I'm thinking of more than just a smoking ban.  

Anyway, I've been trying to find more specific information on the policy in Abilene and this incident.  Something that's slowing me down is in trying find and read articles, I keep running into websites that require registration to read more.  The registration's free, but it's still a bit time-consuming.  Anyway, I'll post more information after I've had the chance to read some more.
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#23 Bad Wolf

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Posted 07 April 2007 - 12:21 AM

FTR, I agree about local governments and micro management.  I mean, I live in San Francisco, land of the banned plastic grocery bags.  But contempt is still contempt, and if he wants to get all civil disobediency ala MLK that's one thing but to just thumb his nose and then start in with the "I can't believe I got arrested for smoking" is just stupid.  If he doesn't like the law there are ways to address that.  Until then he's as bound by it as the next average joe and he doesn't get a free pass just because he thinks he's above the rules.  In other words, the government can't actually control people's actions but it damn well does have some say over the consequences for said actions.

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#24 Jazzer

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Posted 07 April 2007 - 12:27 AM

^ Good points, Lil.  :)
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#25 Raina

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Posted 07 April 2007 - 04:34 AM

View PostLord of the Sword, on Apr 6 2007, 03:31 PM, said:

There has to be some compromise. A seperate section, with seperate ventilation, seems like a good compromise to me.
Yeah, though that would be prohibitively expensive, and you'd have the waiters and waitresses being exposed to secondhand smoke.

What about separate restaurants? There's gotta be enough people who want to be able to smoke in a restaurant/bar/pub/etc. that there'd be enough business for a few businesses to designate themselves as smoker friendly. And they could have their waiters and waitresses agree that it's their choice to work in a place where there's smoking and any health problems that result are their responsibility.

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#26 Bad Wolf

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Posted 07 April 2007 - 10:22 AM

View PostRaina, on Apr 7 2007, 02:34 AM, said:

View PostLord of the Sword, on Apr 6 2007, 03:31 PM, said:

There has to be some compromise. A seperate section, with seperate ventilation, seems like a good compromise to me.
Yeah, though that would be prohibitively expensive, and you'd have the waiters and waitresses being exposed to secondhand smoke.

What about separate restaurants? There's gotta be enough people who want to be able to smoke in a restaurant/bar/pub/etc. that there'd be enough business for a few businesses to designate themselves as smoker friendly. And they could have their waiters and waitresses agree that it's their choice to work in a place where there's smoking and any health problems that result are their responsibility.

Seperate but equal aye?
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#27 szhismine

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Posted 07 April 2007 - 10:26 AM

:clap: @ the smoking ban and enforcing it. :cool:
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#28 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 07 April 2007 - 10:35 AM

View PostRaina, on Apr 7 2007, 05:34 AM, said:

Yeah, though that would be prohibitively expensive, and you'd have the waiters and waitresses being exposed to secondhand smoke.

Nobody is forcing them to work there. That is there choice. If they don't want to work there, I'm sure they will find someone that will.

Quote

What about separate restaurants? There's gotta be enough people who want to be able to smoke in a restaurant/bar/pub/etc. that there'd be enough business for a few businesses to designate themselves as smoker friendly. And they could have their waiters and waitresses agree that it's their choice to work in a place where there's smoking and any health problems that result are their responsibility.

I would love to have seperate restaurants. In fact, I'm wondering why nobody has tried to do that? Only reason I could think of is that the fanatical anti-smoking crowd would raise holy hell. If a restaurant advertised itself as a smoker's restaurant, and said: "This is a smoking restaurant, non-smokers are of course welcome, but they need to know that this is a smoking restaurant." you know the fanatical anti-smoking crowd would go ballistic.
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#29 Hibblette

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Posted 07 April 2007 - 10:59 AM

View PostUna Salus Lillius, on Apr 7 2007, 12:21 AM, said:

FTR, I agree about local governments and micro management.  I mean, I live in San Francisco, land of the banned plastic grocery bags.  But contempt is still contempt, and if he wants to get all civil disobediency ala MLK that's one thing but to just thumb his nose and then start in with the "I can't believe I got arrested for smoking" is just stupid.  If he doesn't like the law there are ways to address that.  Until then he's as bound by it as the next average joe and he doesn't get a free pass just because he thinks he's above the rules.  In other words, the government can't actually control people's actions but it damn well does have some say over the consequences for said actions.

Lil

Well to me what's maddening about this is the fact this guy should have shown up his not showing up still allows this maddness to continue.

Sure the Restuarants having a choice is all about freedom of commerce...and at this stage of the game with non smoking issues there would be restuarants that would be non smoking.  It shouldn't be a problem but it is because of those people that want to save all of us from death that it won't be happening until we tell them to stop doing that.  As LotS says they don't have to work at that particular Restuarant or Bar and they don't have to eat there.

I absolutely hate the whole "Hooters" concept.  Sorry, but it just... :censored: but I will not ask for them to shut down.  I would not join a group to shut them down.  I just don't go there.  I will not go there.
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#30 G1223

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Posted 07 April 2007 - 11:14 AM

View PostLord of the Sword, on Apr 7 2007, 11:35 AM, said:

I would love to have seperate restaurants. In fact, I'm wondering why nobody has tried to do that? Only reason I could think of is that the fanatical anti-smoking crowd would raise holy hell. If a restaurant advertised itself as a smoker's restaurant, and said: "This is a smoking restaurant, non-smokers are of course welcome, but they need to know that this is a smoking restaurant." you know the fanatical anti-smoking crowd would go ballistic.

No not ballistic. Hyper sonic yeah. After all that would keep them from getting to control other people's lives and Smoke Nazi's can never allow such a place to exist. They want there to be no smoking anywhere they might think of going. Even in the homes of smokers. Hell they already tried to say you could not smoke on your porch. I guess the smoke would seek out a non smoker and kill them . (Just like a laser. And without paying attention to the fact cars put out more carbon moixcide than ten smokes in a phone booth.)
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#31 Raina

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Posted 08 April 2007 - 03:40 AM

View PostLord of the Sword, on Apr 7 2007, 08:35 AM, said:

I would love to have seperate restaurants. In fact, I'm wondering why nobody has tried to do that? Only reason I could think of is that the fanatical anti-smoking crowd would raise holy hell. If a restaurant advertised itself as a smoker's restaurant, and said: "This is a smoking restaurant, non-smokers are of course welcome, but they need to know that this is a smoking restaurant." you know the fanatical anti-smoking crowd would go ballistic.
I think it's because the smoking bans are city or state/provincial bylaws rather than individual restaurant policy, so therefore the bans tend to be blanket bans that apply to all public places.

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#32 Mark

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Posted 08 April 2007 - 04:58 AM

Mark: I must admit, when I first saw this thread, this image popped into my head for a fleeting second.
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I thought, "nah, surely they wouldn't arrest a smoker".
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#33 SparkyCola

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Posted 08 April 2007 - 10:08 AM

What szh said :thumbs-up:
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#34 Rhea

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Posted 08 April 2007 - 12:38 PM

View PostUna Salus Lillius, on Apr 6 2007, 09:55 AM, said:

*sigh*

HE WAS NOT JAILED FOR SMOKING, HE WAS JAILED FOR NOT SHOWING UP IN COURT WHEN HE WAS SUPPOSED TO WHICH IS CALLED CONTEMPT REGARDLESS OF THE REASON UNDERLYING THE COURT APPEARANCE.

*better now*

What Lil (and several other people said).

If he had paid the fine instead of ignoring it, he would never have been arrested.
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#35 Rhea

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Posted 08 April 2007 - 12:40 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on Apr 7 2007, 08:35 AM, said:

View PostRaina, on Apr 7 2007, 05:34 AM, said:

Yeah, though that would be prohibitively expensive, and you'd have the waiters and waitresses being exposed to secondhand smoke.

Nobody is forcing them to work there. That is there choice. If they don't want to work there, I'm sure they will find someone that will.


I remember reading an article about a city where there's a smoking ban in public places. They monitored restaurant and bar employees before and after the ban. And employees were sick way less often after the ban. Apparently what they thought were colds or whatever were really caused by the smoky environment.

Here's some info about second hand smoke:

http://www.healthtal...smoke/home.html

Quote

Researchers at the University of Minnesota followed non-smoking women who visited casinos, where they were exposed to second hand smoke for a period of four hours. When we compared levels of a tobacco-specific carcinogen called NNK from before and after the visit, we found these women had elevated levels of this chemical, which could only come from tobacco smoke. We'd expect that restaurant and bar employees working longer shifts would test positive for even higher levels of this cancer-causing chemical.

And:

Quote

A recent study published in the British Medical Journal suggests that exposure to second-hand smoke might also increase risk of heart attacks.

Researchers found that community smoking bans could help reduce the number of heart attacks. The study examined hospital admissions for heart attacks in Helena, Mont., during a six-month smoking ban and compared the data two other periods. The researchers found a 40 percent decrease in heart attack admissions for that same period the previous year and the following six months after the ban was lifted. Residents living around the city had no decrease. This seems to suggest that reducing people's exposure to second-hand smoke could help reduce the number of heart attacks.

The Environmental Protection Agency associates second-hand smoke with increased risk of lower respiratory infections like bronchitis and pneumonia in children. In fact, as many as 300,000 of these infections in infants and toddlers could be attributable to second-hand smoke.

There's no question that tobacco smoke is a health hazard, whether you're a smoker or you're exposed to second-hand smoke. New York City and California have implemented bans on smoking in bars and restaurants, as have some communities in Minnesota, including Duluth. The hospital industry leaders expressed fears that the bans would hurt business, but so far there are no conclusive studies to suggest they have been detrimental.

What we really need is hermetically sealed rooms for smokers so that nobody else has to inhale their smoke. :p ;)

And even more importantly:

http://environmental...moke/index.html

Quote

U.S. Surgeon General Richard H. Carmona today issued a comprehensive scientific report which concludes that there is no risk-free level of exposure to secondhand smoke. Nonsmokers exposed to secondhand smoke at home or work increase their risk of developing heart disease by 25 to 30 percent and lung cancer by 20 to 30 percent. The finding is of major public health concern due to the fact that nearly half of all nonsmoking Americans are still regularly exposed to secondhand smoke.

The report, The Health Consequences of Involuntary Exposure to Tobacco Smoke, finds that even brief secondhand smoke exposure can cause immediate harm. The report says the only way to protect nonsmokers from the dangerous chemicals in secondhand smoke is to eliminate smoking indoors.

Edited by Rhea, 08 April 2007 - 12:50 PM.

The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#36 szhismine

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Posted 08 April 2007 - 01:30 PM

what Rhea said. :D
Neville: "My grandmother forbids me from using raunchy language."
Harry: "Well your grandmother is a Blast-Ended Skank!"
Neville: *GASP*
Hermione: "He doesn't mean it Neville, he's just testing out some wizard swears."
Harry: "I mean every word I ever say ever, because I'm Harry Potter." --'Wizard Swears', Potter Puppet Pals

Hermione: "What's your problem Harry?"
Harry: "My parents are dead, my life sucks, I can't hold down a girlfriend, and I'm surrounded by f*ck*ng goblins and sh*t all the time. I mean what the f*ck?"
Ron: "But it's magic Harry. The goblins are magical!" --'Wizard Angst', Potter Puppet Pals

Me: "It's just a matter of looking past [McKay's] arrogant exterior to see his warm, fuzzy, probably angst-filled interior."
Hawkeye: "You harperchondriac girls think everyone has an angst filled interior."

"Good gods, you sniff out angst like a police dog sniffs out drugs." --Lyric (to me)

#37 Nonny

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Posted 11 April 2007 - 10:53 AM

View PostLord of the Sword, on Apr 6 2007, 03:26 PM, said:

And as for being at the hospital...I will ask doctors, regardless of their dirty looks, where the smoking section is.
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The only sad thing I have seen at Lucy Curci is the sight of a nurse slipping outside to light up.  What a waste of good health, good sense and professional training.  

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#38 Rhea

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Posted 14 April 2007 - 07:56 PM

I remember when they used to allow smoking in movie theaters. I developed what was later diagnosed as allergic asthma. I had no idea why, every time I'd go to the movie, I'd end up feeling like somebody was sitting on my chest. I didn't have asthma as a kid and never had the wheezy, obvious type. I'd get taken to an emergency room but by the time I got there the symptoms would be gone.

For a couple of years there I literally thought I was losing my mind. Then the allergist tested me and found out that I'm literally allergic to tobacco. I can still remember him saying "You know, that feeling you get when you're in a movie theatre that you can't breathe? Well guess what? You really CAN'T breathe." :p

(I'm allergic to marijuana, too - the sixties and seventies were not kind to me. )

I avoided movie theatres and other smoke-filled spots like the plague after that.

I was talking to my allergist not long ago, and I remember how suprised he was that they used to test for tobacco allergies. He said they don't bother any more because they already know it's not good for anybody ever, so why bother?  :wacko:

Edited by Rhea, 14 April 2007 - 07:58 PM.

The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#39 Mary Rose

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Posted 20 April 2007 - 07:56 AM

View PostNonny, on Apr 11 2007, 11:53 AM, said:

View PostLord of the Sword, on Apr 6 2007, 03:26 PM, said:

And as for being at the hospital...I will ask doctors, regardless of their dirty looks, where the smoking section is.


The only sad thing I have seen at Lucy Curci is the sight of a nurse slipping outside to light up.  What a waste of good health, good sense and professional training.  

Nonny


Being in the medical profession is highly stressful.  Stress kills too.  Cigarettes are a good stress reliever.   I know this because my mother smokes and that's part of why.  She also enjoys smoking.

People know it's not good for them.  But everyone does stuff they know is not good for them.  Perhaps even you.  I don't know anyone in my personal circle who doesn't have a vice or two.

I enjoy tanning.  I enjoy junk food.  Neither is good for me.  Is it sad that I enjoy these things?  Not IMO. We're all going to die eventually, anyway.  So why shouldn't we do things we enjoy while we're here?
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#40 Pixiedust

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Posted 20 April 2007 - 08:27 AM

But you tanning and eating junk food doesn't harm anyone else.
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