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And Iran goes nuclear

Middle East Iran 2007 Nuclear Development

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#1 Godeskian

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Posted 09 April 2007 - 12:12 PM

http://news.bbc.co.u...ast/6538957.stm

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Iran can now produce nuclear fuel on an industrial scale, President Ahmadinejad has announced, in a move likely to further strain tensions with the West

He gave no details of Iran's capacity, but some officials said 3,000 uranium gas enrichment centrifuges were running at the Natanz plant in central Iran.

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The Iranian president again asserted his country's right to nuclear development for peaceful purposes.

And he also warned that Iran would have no choice but to review its membership of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty if further pressure was applied by the West.

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#2 Palisades

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Posted 09 April 2007 - 12:47 PM

I'm no nuclear expert, but isn't 3000 centrifuges a small fraction of the number Iran needs to meet its enrichment requirements for nuclear weapons? This analysis says that Iran needs 50,000 centrifuges to do this. It also says that using spent fuel from the Busheir light water reactor is a much faster way for Iran to get the necessary quantities of weapons-grade uranium. Commentary by someone with more understanding of this than I have would be welcome.

Edited by Solar Wind, 09 April 2007 - 01:01 PM.

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#3 Godeskian

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Posted 09 April 2007 - 01:04 PM

There is of course the absolutely shocking possibility that the Nantaz facility is designed for nuclear power rather than nuclear weapons.

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#4 Captain Jack

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Posted 09 April 2007 - 01:40 PM

If you think that Iran is not making or not going to make nuclear weapons, I've got a bridge in New York I can sell you.  I'd sure hate to say "I told you so" after a big mushroom cloud blows up over some European city, or in Israel.
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#5 Palisades

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Posted 09 April 2007 - 01:51 PM

^ Assuming Iran would be stupid enough to do that. Why would Iran want to nuke Europe, anyway?

Now, do you trust the Bush Administration to fight a war against Iran, given how things have turned out in Iraq and Afghanistan? 0 for 2 is not a promising track record. If military action must be taken, better to wait for a different Administration to do it. Iran is unlikely to have a nuclear bomb before 2009.
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#6 szhismine

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Posted 09 April 2007 - 01:53 PM

Iran might have nuclear weapons in a few years... the US has nuclear weapons now. and yet Iran is the threat...
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#7 Godeskian

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Posted 09 April 2007 - 02:06 PM

View PostSpidey, on Apr 9 2007, 07:40 PM, said:

If you think that Iran is not making or not going to make nuclear weapons, I've got a bridge in New York I can sell you.  I'd sure hate to say "I told you so" after a big mushroom cloud blows up over some European city, or in Israel.

I'm thinking that Iran for all that folks here like to claim it's a barbaric backwater is a modern industrialised nation, and has a fairly sharp is undemocratic goverment. I'm thinking that the concept of MAD is as valid today as it was back when the term was first coined.

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#8 Spectacles

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Posted 09 April 2007 - 03:14 PM

Gee, you mean Iran is joining North Korea as a nuclear power? And this after our president called them "evil," refused to talk to them, and showed them how we mean by-god business by overthrowing (non-nuclear) Saddam? Don't they know that when the U.S. has leadership that talks loudly and wildly swings a big stick that they're supposed to not antagonize us?

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Gode: I'm thinking that the concept of MAD is as valid today as it was back when the term was first coined.

I wish, but I'm not so sure it is.

Back during the Cold War, I never really feared that the Russians would nuke us because they, like us, mainly wanted their kids to grow up, get an education, have as good a life as possible. We share a similar, Western world-view in many respects. I always worried instead about radical Islamists getting hold of nukes. If they decided to light up one or more of our cities, it would be an act of religious devotion and they'd not only not fear but actually welcome the consequences. They'd die in a state of grace.

So, we have a serious problem. But it's not a new problem. Nuclear-armed Pakistan is home to large numbers of thoroughly rabid Islamists. The only thing that currently stands between our going boom and them is Musharraff. If they ever succeed in overthrowing him, that is going to be a dark day indeed for the Western Hemisphere.

What we need to do is find a way to get that crazy ideology to moderate. Puffing up our chests and threatening force is only making that ideology grow. We'd better find a more effective way of weakening it--and fairly soon.

Edited by Spectacles, 09 April 2007 - 03:14 PM.

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#9 Kosh

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Posted 09 April 2007 - 03:20 PM

View PostSolar Wind, on Apr 9 2007, 01:47 PM, said:

I'm no nuclear expert, but isn't 3000 centrifuges a small fraction of the number Iran needs to meet its enrichment requirements for nuclear weapons? This analysis says that Iran needs 50,000 centrifuges to do this. It also says that using spent fuel from the Busheir light water reactor is a much faster way for Iran to get the necessary quantities of weapons-grade uranium. Commentary by someone with more understanding of this than I have would be welcome.


According to what has been said on TV, Iran could have weapons grade nuclear material in two years instead of five, and Iran plans to add more centrifuges. They are going for weapons grade. They know Isreal has weapons, and they wont stop until they have them.
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#10 Kosh

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Posted 09 April 2007 - 03:22 PM

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What we need to do is find a way to get that crazy ideology to moderate.

An end to all religion.
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#11 Vapor Trails

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Posted 09 April 2007 - 03:39 PM

View PostKosh, on Apr 9 2007, 04:22 PM, said:

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What we need to do is find a way to get that crazy ideology to moderate.

An end to all religion.

I agree, Kosh-but we know that isn't going to happen. Religion will continue to exist until man is wiped off the face of the planet.

Also many of those radicals loathe us for the very fact that we simply exist. We are an abomination to those radicals-and because of that fact alone, we must die.

It's hard to get radicals like that to moderate, particularly if they are in positions of power and influence, with an eager audience.

Edited by Digital Man, 09 April 2007 - 03:40 PM.

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#12 SparkyCola

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Posted 09 April 2007 - 05:13 PM

I'm exceedingly cautious about extremes of anything. Extreme religion, extreme anti-religion, extreme water drinking...you name it.

Also, what Specs said ^

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#13 CJ AEGIS

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Posted 09 April 2007 - 05:55 PM

View Postszhismine, on Apr 9 2007, 02:53 PM, said:

Iran might have nuclear weapons in a few years... the US has nuclear weapons now. and yet Iran is the threat...
Has the US used nuclear weapons since Nagasaki?  The US and USSR stared at each other for over 40 years during the Cold War with nuclear weapons at the ready.  Yet neither country blinked and launched their weapons.  Are you willing to put the same faith in religious nuts who believe that an 18 year old kid gets 70 virgins if they blow up a corner store full of other kids?  

Quote

Kosh: An end to all religion.
Are we going to kill all people who believe in religion?  

Your statement fails to explain why the two greatest mass murders of the 20th Century were communism and fascism political ideologies rather then religious .  Religion isn't the problem and someone who claims that is blinded by their own bigotry.  The problem is the human tendency to take any ideology to the point that they are willing to kill other human beings.  Need I remind you the good communists who  killed so many in the USSR, China, and Cambodia were a bunch of good godless atheists?  I suggest you take a look in your own heart and see the darkness that your suggestion could lead to if someone adopted the human idea of taking an ideology to the extreme.  Pretty soon it ends up at kill those religious people who cause all the trouble and that makes those people no better than the fundamentalist Muslims who wants to kill the "Zionist".      

Religion isn't the problem the problem is humanity taking ideas to the excess and being narrow minded fearing what they don't believe in themselves and your statement pretty much gives a taste of that.

(For once I find myself agreeing with Sparky on the extremes... Off to see if Satan's Hockey Team can win the Finals.....) ;)

Edited by CJ AEGIS, 09 April 2007 - 05:57 PM.

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#14 G1223

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Posted 09 April 2007 - 06:30 PM

View Postszhismine, on Apr 9 2007, 02:53 PM, said:

Iran might have nuclear weapons in a few years... the US has nuclear weapons now. and yet Iran is the threat...


Well lets see Iran which claims on a nearly daily basis to want to destroy Israel. They train and protect terrorist as well these terrorist who kidnap and kill people. They send their soldiers to agument terrorist with troops from their own army.

Yet we are a threat? We point out the reality that Iran is working towards it's professed goals.

Would say a nation which claims that it must destroy another one be a threat?
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#15 G1223

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Posted 09 April 2007 - 06:33 PM

View PostSpectacles, on Apr 9 2007, 04:14 PM, said:

What we need to do is find a way to get that crazy ideology to moderate. Puffing up our chests and threatening force is only making that ideology grow. We'd better find a more effective way of weakening it--and fairly soon.

No to get them to moderate is carry out the promise of force. Anything else is appeasing till they nickle and dime us with a war of words and get what they want.
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#16 Godeskian

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Posted 09 April 2007 - 06:35 PM

View PostCJ AEGIS, on Apr 9 2007, 11:55 PM, said:

Your statement fails to explain why the two greatest mass murders of the 20th Century were communism and fascism political ideologies rather then religious .  Religion isn't the problem and someone who claims that is blinded by their own bigotry.  The problem is the human tendency to take any ideology to the point that they are willing to kill other human beings.  Need I remind you the good communists who  killed so many in the USSR, China, and Cambodia were a bunch of good godless atheists?

I actually agree with you, but would like to clarify that they didn't commit their crimes in the name of Atheism, they committed their crimes in the names of Communism and fascism.

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#17 SparkyCola

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Posted 10 April 2007 - 08:54 AM

*re-reads CJ's post* :blink: There really is nothing else for it....

What CJ said!

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#18 Kosh

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Posted 10 April 2007 - 10:33 AM

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Religion isn't the problem and someone who claims that is blinded by their own bigotry.

Not believeing in God does not make me a Bigot. Religion has been the basis for to many wars, and to many killings, and it is to much money now, and to little about love. The entire middle east hates us, and they are taught that by there religious leaders. Christains hate Muslums for the most part. Christain groups that don't agree on the Bible don't get along with each other.

The Administration talks about God on one hand, and tortures people on the other. Sorry, but I'm not the bigot.
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#19 Captain Jack

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Posted 10 April 2007 - 01:02 PM

View PostGodeskian, on Apr 9 2007, 04:35 PM, said:

View PostCJ AEGIS, on Apr 9 2007, 11:55 PM, said:

Your statement fails to explain why the two greatest mass murders of the 20th Century were communism and fascism political ideologies rather then religious .  Religion isn't the problem and someone who claims that is blinded by their own bigotry.  The problem is the human tendency to take any ideology to the point that they are willing to kill other human beings.  Need I remind you the good communists who  killed so many in the USSR, China, and Cambodia were a bunch of good godless atheists?

I actually agree with you, but would like to clarify that they didn't commit their crimes in the name of Atheism, they committed their crimes in the names of Communism and fascism.

I agree with BOTH of you entirely.
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#20 Lover of Purple

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Posted 10 April 2007 - 01:39 PM

View PostKosh, on Apr 10 2007, 08:33 AM, said:

Quote

Religion isn't the problem and someone who claims that is blinded by their own bigotry.

Not believeing in God does not make me a Bigot. Religion has been the basis for to many wars, and to many killings, and it is to much money now, and to little about love. The entire middle east hates us, and they are taught that by there religious leaders. Christains hate Muslums for the most part. Christain groups that don't agree on the Bible don't get along with each other.

The Administration talks about God on one hand, and tortures people on the other. Sorry, but I'm not the bigot.

And no, not believing in God does not make you a bigot.

Actually, Kosh, true Christians do not hate Muslums (or anyone). But you are right that some Christian groups don't get along, but those that truly follow Christ do. Remember that many people who claim to be Christians are not. Many Americans believe that just being born here makes them a Christian..go figure. Many people call themselves Christians and do not follow Christ. These people are not Christians. A good rule I use to tell is "Do they treat people and act like Jesus did?" Jesus went so far as to even ask God to forgive those that crucified him, that is not a sign of a person who hates.



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