Spidey, on Apr 11 2007, 09:55 AM, said:
Eye guess you're right.
To err is human. To forgive is human as well, although shakespeare disagrees
Before I continue, I'm really not looking to cause offense. If anyone feels offended, let me know and I'll delete or edit this post. My opinions in this case are not worth causing a fight.
Jesus never said slavery was just dandy.
In Collosians Paul told slaves to accept their lot in life. He admonished them not to disobey their masters. and Jesus did nothing to stop or admonish Paul for his statements. That is at the very least, indifference to the slaves fates. and at worst it's acceptance of slavery. In Titus the concept is repeated, but this time it is God telling people that slaves should submit, and give their masters true fidelity.
So yes, Jesus was quite comfortable with the notion of slavery.
Moses freed the Jews from slavery by the Egyptians. That was by the help of God.
Don't start with me about Moses if you want to keep this discussion civil. I find him one of the most abhorrent people in the whole bible.
As for Slavery, God didn't seem to have a problem with it, as long as it wasn't his people being enslaved. To wit
Leviticus Chapter 25, verse 44:
Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
Sounds to me like support for slavery to me. At least during Moses' era.
Jesus believed very strongly in a free and equal people. He never supported slavery, and He never considered it the "norm".
Show me where he says, or even implies, that slavery as an institution is wrong. I'm taking my knowledge directly from the bible. Show me i'm wrong.
It is not a new concept at all that people should not be slaves to anyone.
Are you kidding me? We've got records going back five thousand years that indicate that people have always owned other people. It wasn't until two hundred or so years ago that people finally started standing up and saying that it was truly, unequivocally wrong.
Ah, but philosophy is no more or less important that religious scripture. To me, they go hand in hand. Religion has a lot to offer, and it's a personal experience for each individual. In a sense, religion is a philosophy in of itself.
Shrug, that feels an awful lot like semantics, but yes, religions espouse a philosophy. However most religions impart a supernatural element to it's philosophy that takes precendence. After all, it was Love God, then Love thy neighbour. Not the other way round.
Be careful what you wish for. As for what he meant, I believe it is misinterpretation.
Then by all means, let him come back. The Christians will be happy because it's the second coming, and I'll be happy because I get to debate the man himself. Everyone wins.
I have learned that a religious experience isn't something one should expect. It just doesn't work that way. I wouldn't say it gives me any happiness in my life since my life sucks right now, and has for a while now. But, it did give me some clarity, and offered some answers to my questions. You have a PM for the rest my friend.
Then I'm happy for you. And if I ever have a religious experience and see the light I may change my mind, but I wouldn't bet any serious money on it.
[amended because DWF makes a fair point]
Edited by Godeskian, 11 April 2007 - 07:23 AM.