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New Jersey Governor Injured In Car Crash

New Jersey Gov. John Corzine 2007 Accident

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#21 Vapor Trails

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Posted 14 April 2007 - 03:54 PM

New Jersey Seat Belt Law

Quote

New Jersey’s Seat Belt Law:
(NJS 39:3-76.2f)

# Applies to all passenger vehicles including vans, pickup trucks and SUV's, that are required to be equipped with seat belts.

# Applies to all passengers, who are at least 8 years of age but less than 18 years of age, and each driver and front seat passenger of a passenger automobile, operated on a street or highway. All occupants are required to wear a properly adjusted and fastened seat belt system.

# Makes the driver responsible for proper seat beltuse by all occupants who are under the age of 18.

# Children under age 8 who weigh more than 80 pounds must wear a seat belt anywhere in the vehicle.

# Passengers age 8 to 18 (regardless of weight ) must wear a seat belt anywhere inside a vehicle.

(purple highlight mine)

Why is an age distinction being made?  :blink:  People, regardless of age, should by law be made to wear a seat belt anywhere inside a vehicle. :sarcasm:

Stupid law. :angry:
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#22 Rov Judicata

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Posted 14 April 2007 - 04:25 PM

Because people under 18 aren't adults. Once you're over 18, your ability to make stupid decisions is greatly increased. A compulsory seatbelt law would be little more than a way to give cops an excuse to harass citizens who aren't risking or harming anybody but themselves.
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. § 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#23 QueenTiye

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Posted 14 April 2007 - 04:47 PM

But it is a stupid law - given that a free flowing passenger can injure everyone else in the vehicle.  Seatbelt law should be for all regardless of age if there's going to be one. But people have in fact resisted the law - which is why it's been so patchwork in creation.

QT

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#24 Rov Judicata

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Posted 14 April 2007 - 04:52 PM

View PostQueenTiye, on Apr 14 2007, 04:47 PM, said:

But it is a stupid law - given that a free flowing passenger can injure everyone else in the vehicle.  Seatbelt law should be for all regardless of age if there's going to be one. But people have in fact resisted the law - which is why it's been so patchwork in creation.

QT

A driver is free to refuse to drive anybody who declines to put on a seatbelt. By the same token, nobody is coercing anybody to ride in a vehicle that has an unbuckled passenger.

EDIT: For clarity.

Edited by Juris Rovvius, 14 April 2007 - 05:07 PM.

St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. § 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#25 eechick

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Posted 14 April 2007 - 05:00 PM

...

Edited by eechick, 14 April 2007 - 05:01 PM.


#26 G1223

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Posted 14 April 2007 - 05:21 PM

View PostJuris Rovvius, on Apr 14 2007, 05:25 PM, said:

Because people under 18 aren't adults. Once you're over 18, your ability to make stupid decisions is greatly increased. A compulsory seatbelt law would be little more than a way to give cops an excuse to harass citizens who aren't risking or harming anybody but themselves.

While filling the coffers of the state from violators who do not fight the ticket in court.
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#27 Nonny

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Posted 14 April 2007 - 07:24 PM

View PostJuris Rovvius, on Apr 14 2007, 02:52 PM, said:

A driver is free to refuse to drive anybody who declines to put on a seatbelt. By the same token, nobody is coercing anybody to ride in a vehicle that has an unbuckled passenger.
So what do you think happened to the first state employee who refused to drive the governor?  

Nonny
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#28 Rov Judicata

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Posted 14 April 2007 - 11:04 PM

View PostNonny, on Apr 14 2007, 07:24 PM, said:

View PostJuris Rovvius, on Apr 14 2007, 02:52 PM, said:

A driver is free to refuse to drive anybody who declines to put on a seatbelt. By the same token, nobody is coercing anybody to ride in a vehicle that has an unbuckled passenger.
So what do you think happened to the first state employee who refused to drive the governor?  

Nonny


Wittily stated, and a point I hadn't thought of. Well done.

All laws are, ultimately, value judgments that impose costs in the hopes that greater benefits will be received. In a sense, every law as in investment. Analytically, a decision *not* to enact a law is identical.  

Let's assume that the governor is a freak of nature who complies with all state laws. The state driver in question might lose his job, but the benefit is a reduction in police ability to harass otherwise-law-abiding citizens. The ability of the police to pull drivers over needs to be heavily restricted and regulated, for obvious reasons. As cost-benefit analyses go, not extending the law has a lot to go for it. And that's before reaching the ideological question of whether or not it's wise to require the state to tell us how to keep ourselves safe. For our own good, don't ya know.

Of course, even that analysis overlooks the obvious: Even if the state law did apply to the governor, the odds that he would have actually complied with it are essentially nil. He already disregarded the safety reasons for wearing the governor, so the chance of getting a ticket from a cop (and that would be one ballsy cop!!) would hardly even register on his radar. More broadly, I have my doubts that seatbelt laws actually encourage people on a large scale to wear seatbelts. I'm not aware of any empirical work being done on the issue, however.

Edited by Juris Rovvius, 14 April 2007 - 11:05 PM.

St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. § 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#29 QueenTiye

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Posted 14 April 2007 - 11:30 PM

I'm pretty sure that the data is already in saying that the law works.

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#30 G1223

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 03:15 AM

So does telling people to not shout fire in a crowded room. The fact is the law helps the few who might otherwise not wear the belt. But truth is it was done to help the insurance companies and not the people who have to buy the insurance.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

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If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#31 QueenTiye

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 03:40 AM

G - I agree.  And I'm surprised to find NJ's laws less stringent, given the cronic insurance problem the state had. McGreevey cut some kind of deal with the insurance companies to bring them back into the state at slightly (that's putting it mildly) lower rates by changing the way licensing is done in the state.  When I got my license - it was provisional for the first 5 years - this was part of the change to get insurance companies to work in the state and at rates that were slightly less than astronomical.  

I think that insurance should be abolished.  But that's another discussion.  The fact remains - the law is what it is, it DOES help, despite whatever motivators got the law on the books, and the governor broke the law.  I'm sorry he is injured - but I hope he has the graciousness to acknowledge his fault in this and to set a better example by talking about the importance of the seatbelt law that it is his job to uphold...

QT

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#32 Vapor Trails

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 07:53 AM

View PostG1223, on Apr 15 2007, 04:15 AM, said:

The fact is the law helps the few who might otherwise not wear the belt. But truth is it was done to help the insurance companies and not the people who have to buy the insurance.

Honestly, I strongly believe this when it comes to obtaining your driver's license in New Jersey. We have among the highest car insurance rates in the USA, and yet, our road tests are incredibly piss-poor!! Basically, you drive around a parking lot, park between two cones, and BINGO! You are now legally qualified to drive a car. :p  :rolleyes:

There's a part of me that really believes there's some sort of financial arrangement between insurance companies and the New Jersey government, where the government gets some sort of cut from the high insurance rates new drivers must pay. Someone who passes such a ridiculous test is a bigdanger to other motorists on the road, so of course the insurance companies are going to rob that person of everything he/she has.  :rolleyes:
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#33 Nonny

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 09:44 AM

Driver in Corzine Crash Not Charged

Quote

ATLANTIC CITY, N.J — State Police declined to charge the 20-year-old driver of a pickup truck for leaving the scene of a crash that critically injured Gov. Jon Corzine because the man said he was trying to make room for the governor's motorcade.

However, authorities said Saturday they were leaving open the possibility the driver could face other charges, saying the investigation is not complete. Investigators still want to interview Corzine, who remained on a ventilator, unable to speak.
Whatever happens, I hope he isn't made a scapegoat.  

Quote

"He hadn't any inkling that he contributed to it," New Jersey State Police Capt. Al Della Fave said. "That alleviates him of the responsibility of remaining at the accident scene. There's nothing he did here criminally. He did what he felt was the best he could."

Della Fave said the driver saw Corzine's motorcade with its flashing lights traveling in the left lane, and edged his pickup truck further to the right to give the official vehicles a wide berth.
How fast was he traveling?  How fast was the motorcade traveling?  

Quote

In so doing, the red pickup's right wheels went onto the grassy highway shoulder, alarming the driver. He looked up to see a highway mile marker sign directly in front of him, and steered hard to the left to avoid hitting it.

That brought the red pickup back onto the roadway and into the path of a white pickup truck, which also swerved to the left to avoid the red truck. The white vehicle struck Corzine's sport utility vehicle, sending it careening into a guard rail.
Out here, most major highways have scored shoulder pavement that makes a loud noise if you drive over it.  Not only does it warn you that you're heading for the edge of the road or the center divider, but it wakes up drowsy drivers too.  

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#34 Vapor Trails

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 10:00 AM

View PostNonny, on Apr 15 2007, 10:44 AM, said:

Out here, most major highways have scored shoulder pavement that makes a loud noise if you drive over it.  Not only does it warn you that you're heading for the edge of the road or the center divider, but it wakes up drowsy drivers too.

We have that too in New Jersey. I wonder if the shoulder pavement was scored where this accident happened. :whatsthat:
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#35 Nonny

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 10:06 AM

View PostDigital Man, on Apr 15 2007, 08:00 AM, said:

View PostNonny, on Apr 15 2007, 10:44 AM, said:

Out here, most major highways have scored shoulder pavement that makes a loud noise if you drive over it.  Not only does it warn you that you're heading for the edge of the road or the center divider, but it wakes up drowsy drivers too.

We have that too in New Jersey. I wonder if the shoulder pavement was scored where this accident happened. :whatsthat:
Was it a major highway?  How many lanes?  Can you find out?  

Nonny
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#36 Vapor Trails

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 11:17 AM

View PostNonny, on Apr 15 2007, 11:06 AM, said:

View PostDigital Man, on Apr 15 2007, 08:00 AM, said:

View PostNonny, on Apr 15 2007, 10:44 AM, said:

Out here, most major highways have scored shoulder pavement that makes a loud noise if you drive over it.  Not only does it warn you that you're heading for the edge of the road or the center divider, but it wakes up drowsy drivers too.

We have that too in New Jersey. I wonder if the shoulder pavement was scored where this accident happened. :whatsthat:
Was it a major highway?  How many lanes?  Can you find out?  

Nonny

This can help answer some of your questions:

New York Times-Animation On Corzine's Accident

I've only driven a section of the Garden State Parkway. I've never been that far south on it. The speed limit in the area Corzine was in appears to be 65 mph.
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"We're relevant for $ and a vote once every two years. Beyond that, we're completely irrelevant, except of course to consume, and preach the gospel according to [insert political demigod here]."--Cait

#37 Nonny

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 12:11 PM

Hmmm, interesting.  I wonder why the white pickup didn't slow down for the red pickup, which had swerved out of the right lane right in front of it and was very likely to swerve back in or hit something on the side of the road, neither of which would have been good for the white pickup behind it.  I'll be interested to know how fast the motorcade was traveling, since that prompted the red pickup to give it room.  And was it a motorcade, with police outriders?  It's shown as one car, but described as a motorcade in several of the articles I've read.  

Nonny
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"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#38 G1223

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 12:13 PM

View PostDigital Man, on Apr 15 2007, 08:53 AM, said:

There's a part of me that really believes there's some sort of financial arrangement between insurance companies and the New Jersey government, where the government gets some sort of cut from the high insurance rates new drivers must pay. Someone who passes such a ridiculous test is a bigdanger to other motorists on the road, so of course the insurance companies are going to rob that person of everything he/she has.  :rolleyes:


Might be becuase for all the contracts the state has that need insurance these same companies are the ones providing coverage.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
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If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#39 Rhea

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 01:12 PM

What I don't get is, if he was in the FRONT passenger side, as the stories say, wasn't there a passenger-side airbag?  :blink:  He's lucky he didn't end up smeared across the windshield with no seat belt and no air bag.
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#40 Norville

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 09:47 PM

Digital Man said:

So-don't be lazy/careless. Wear that belt. Got it? Good.

Agreed. I always wear a seatbelt when I'm in a car; I don't drive, but am often a passenger. My father always made it clear that he wasn't moving the car if belts weren't worn, so that trained me well. I was involved in a minor car crash on Friday the 13th (!), and the seatbelt helped. (Mind you, so did the fact that I screeched like a banshee when I saw what was about to happen, which caused the driver to brake like hell. How *she* didn't see the other car... gah, that could've been so much worse. ...Hmm, anyone remember Mel in "Doctor Who"? I've always scorned her screaming, but man, I think I screeched at exactly the same pitch...)

Digital Man said:

And am I the only one who wonders why there aren't seatbelts on transit buses??

I take buses every day, and always wonder that. It's not just humans that have trouble with that on buses -- I've seen a guide dog slowly sliding across the floor and trying to brace itself.
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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: New Jersey, Gov. John Corzine, 2007, Accident

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