Jump to content


Getting an "Insecure Connection" warning for Exisle? No worry

Details in this thread

Do we need

Virginia Virginia Tech Shootings Media Coverage 2007

  • Please log in to reply
70 replies to this topic

#21 Zwolf

Zwolf
  • Islander
  • 3,683 posts

Posted 18 April 2007 - 02:57 PM

Quote

Exactly. I ended up writing a brief lockdown plan--mainly just commonsense stuff for the administration to distribute to the faculty because I'm not sure that everyone has considered that it's not the best thing to walk out into the hall and see what's going on if they hear shots. I trust most of our students to be streetwise, but I ain't so sure about some of my colleagues. So the plan is basically lock the door, barricade the door, turn off the light, get students out of the sightline of the door's window and be quiet and try to play like an empty room. I told them we needed a special lockdown alarm and an all clear signal. And I told them that we *shouldn't* drill this because it would simply give any disturbed kid too much information or possibly even inspire him or her.

Yep.  And whatever plan you get, don't get too rigid with it, because if the administration can think anything up, a shooter will have also come up with that, too.  This Cho guy doesn't seem to have thought things out overmuch, but he still managed to come up with some things that would have thrown a wrench into any plan of action, like padlocking the exit doors.  Sounds like your plan is a good one, because it's basic common sense, pretty much.  Which means the powers that be will kill it off quickly in favor of some overly-elaborate nonsense that makes them more important.   At least, that's how it is around my workplace.

Quote

Telling them not to conduct drills was probably a plan-killer because these people love drills--anything to make them think they're doing something worthwhile.

Definitely sounds like my workplace. :)  We all got cussed out for not leaving the last time their alarm went off.  This building is big.  Anywhere I go, if I see fire, I'm gonna be able to find an exit, no problem, and so is anybody else.   It'd be like trying to burn somebody down on a football field.  And the alarm system is so faulty it goes off every other week... ya can't take 'em seriously anymore.

Quote

The bizarro evacuation plan they came up with was a total hoot. My dean, department secretary and I laughed ourselves silly over it. Some Peter Principle promoted person came up with an elaborate phone tree notification system. Now, picture this: the dean has two secretaries in an office adjoining hers. In the phone tree, the dean was to receive a call from an administrator and personally notify Secretary A. Secretary B was on someone else's phone list. So the dean asked the genius who devised this system, "What are Secretary A and I supposed to say to Secretary B if we're running out the door and she hasnt' yet been notified." There was a pause while the plan's author pondered this. A lightbulb goes off. The answer? "Tell her to expect an important phone call." I kid you not. It was like a Dilbert comic strip.

:D  I should forward that to our CEO, she'd adopt it in a second!  I did tell you about their plan to celebrate "diversity" around here, didn't I?   Every year, they have ceremonies to honor workers who've been around for 25 years.  Well, since "diversity" is a buzzword now, they decided to highlight their commitment to diversity by holding separate (but, I must suppose, equal!) ceremonies for each race.  So, now - in the name of diversity, remember - there'll be an African-American 25-year-employee ceremony, an Asian 25-year-employee ceremony, a Native American 25 year employee ceremony (I haven't even seen any Native Americans around the company, much less one who'd been here 25 years, but they announced it anyway.  "John Workinghorse, here is your trophy and complimentary coupon for a free sandwich and small drink and a participating Arby's!").  No word if they'll have a whites-only ceremony, but that'd be hilarious... for the sake of diversity, o' course.   And it took a committee to come up with this Mickey Mouse bullsheiss.  They are unbelievable idiots.  Dilbert is not a "comic" strip, I think, because I don't see any jokes... it just reflects reality exactly as it is!


Quote

My secretary calls me over to her desk one day before our big "Drill Day!" and shows me an orange vest. "I'm supposed to put this on and run to certain classrooms and tell them 'there's an emergency. We need to leave the building." She also had a flashlight and a whistle. All duded up in her "emergency" gear, she looked like a demented crossing guard.

I hope the vest is bulletproof!  They also need to issue her some Barney Fife motorcycle goggles and helmet.  Post this somewhere around the office, because they neeeeed to be mocked!


Quote

So these are the doofuses who are responsible for devising any security plans at my college. That's why I decided to grab the bull by the horns.  Or I tried, anyway. I suspect they'll ignore my final suggestion: "tape a gun under every teacher's desk."  They'll probably just give us whistles and flares and a flat tire kit and come up with a catchy phrase for a powerpoint presentation: Safety Help Instructions for Teachers.

:D  And that's an appropriate acronym for what people can do about these situations, too. :)

I actually suggested yesterday that they arm the secretary up there, if they're so scared.  Give 'er a .12 gauge sawed-off.   My idiot co-worker wanted an Uzi, but she's terrified of everything... I wouldn't be scared unless she was armed.  If some intruder breaks in, I have a pretty good chance of killing him by doing something sneaky and using an edged weapon.  I know where the human body's accessible organs and arteries are, and I've got scissors and a box cutter, and nobody ever hears me unless I wanna be heard.  But, ya can't kill off hysterical co-workers who'll kill you by accident.  That's unseemly!

My supervisor told me that if anybody came in here, our crazy co-worker would be making so much noise she'd draw all the fire, anyway, and we could just leisurely waltz out the front door... :)

Cheers,

Zwolf
"I've moved on and I'm feeling fine
And I'll feel even better
When your life has nothing to do with mine."
-Pittbull, "No Love Lost"

"There are things that I'd like to say
But I'm never talking to you again
There's things I'd like to phrase some way
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'd put you down where you belong
But I'm never talking to you again
I'd show you everywhere you're wrong
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you."
- Husker Du, "Never Talking To You Again"

#22 The Oncoming Storm

The Oncoming Storm

    Water's wet; sky's blue; and Satan Clause is out there.

  • Islander
  • 3,351 posts

Posted 18 April 2007 - 06:05 PM

View PostSpectacles, on Apr 18 2007, 02:17 PM, said:

My secretary calls me over to her desk one day before our big "Drill Day!" and shows me an orange vest. "I'm supposed to put this on and run to certain classrooms and tell them 'there's an emergency. We need to leave the building." She also had a flashlight and a whistle. All duded up in her "emergency" gear, she looked like a demented crossing guard.

That bright orange safety vest is just a fat target on your back that screams, "Shoot me, please!"  I know what, give that job and the vest and the whistle to the doofus who developed the plan.  Darwin-ise him.

Rose: [disgusted] Oh, look at what the cat dragged in: "The Oncoming Storm."

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." -- John Wayne


Sometimes the best causes worth fighting for are lost causes. -- Me.

Formerly Known as "Lost Cause."


#23 Lin731

Lin731
  • Islander
  • 4,126 posts

Posted 18 April 2007 - 08:10 PM

It's amazes me how seemingly intelligent people can be such morons about the most commonsense things. Sometimes it seems they just over think things.
Posted Image
Posted Image

#24 Spectacles

Spectacles
  • Awaiting Authorisation
  • 9,632 posts

Posted 19 April 2007 - 07:19 AM

Regarding media coverage, anyone else cringe at the repeated play Cho's insane ramblings are getting? This is SO not a good idea. While the commentators are saying "man, isn't he nuts?" there are disturbed folks watching who think Cho makes perfect sense.

Harry Shearer says it well (edited for R-rated language):

http://www.huffingto...er_b_46240.html

Quote

Did we learn anything useful during the spate of interviews of Charlie Manson years ago, except that he was one crazy m********r? Cho's pathetic outpourings deserved to be put back where they came from--in a small room, with FBI guys sentenced to read/see and parse them Instead, a hundred thousand self-pitying mentally ill young men (and women?) have just been shown the road to glory one more time. A society in which it's easier to become famous for killing people than for doing something useful or constructive is one remarkable place in which to live.

"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#25 G1223

G1223

    The Blunt Object.

  • Dead account
  • 16,164 posts

Posted 19 April 2007 - 07:22 AM

Yep the guy got it in one. I wish we had to make the boards of these news services walk in the scenes of these guys before the bodies are moved. I bet the suits would then simply decide on starting a new career.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#26 Tricia

Tricia

    To err on the side of kindness is seldom an error.

  • Islander
  • 10,245 posts

Posted 19 April 2007 - 08:02 AM

I know that it is making me sick and I flip the channel whenever I see his face.

There was a doctor on GMA this morning who said essentially the same thing about this case.

This is no insight into the mind of a killer, he said.  This is just posturing or a way for the killer to make himself immortal.

He also said something  that I doubt any of the media will get.  He said to stop showing this or they will be encouraging other disaffected souls out there seeing this to do the same thing

No link on the ABC site yet

So we have two people saying that showing this video is wrong.....and is anybody listening?  

Probably not.

Edited by trikay, 19 April 2007 - 08:02 AM.

In true dialogue, both sides are willing to change. --Thich Nhat Hanh


You don't need to attend every argument you are invited to


Do not ask that your kids live up to your expectations.  Let your kids be who they are, and your expectations will be in breathless pursuit.


#27 Zwolf

Zwolf
  • Islander
  • 3,683 posts

Posted 19 April 2007 - 08:04 AM

Quote

Regarding media coverage, anyone else cringe at the repeated play Cho's insane ramblings are getting? This is SO not a good idea. While the commentators are saying "man, isn't he nuts?" there are disturbed folks watching who think Cho makes perfect sense.

These things are always followed by one-upper copycats, so, yeah, we can expect that for a few months.  Replaying the videos, while quite the "scoop," is really stupid.  After all...


Quote

Experts said the paranoid delusions evident in the messages were typical of mass murderers, and they advised people to be on the lookout for warning signs from others who could be emboldened by media coverage of Cho's messages.

Y'know where I got that?  From an article on the CNN webpage, which also included a link to some of the videos.

And ZZZZZOOOOOOOMMMMM! the irony goes flying over the heads of those idiots even as they perpetrate it... *sigh*

"A CNN exclusive reveals that it's a bad idea to show you the following footage!"

Dolts, morons, idiots, fools, cookies.

Cheers,

Zwolf
"I've moved on and I'm feeling fine
And I'll feel even better
When your life has nothing to do with mine."
-Pittbull, "No Love Lost"

"There are things that I'd like to say
But I'm never talking to you again
There's things I'd like to phrase some way
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'd put you down where you belong
But I'm never talking to you again
I'd show you everywhere you're wrong
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you."
- Husker Du, "Never Talking To You Again"

#28 Spectacles

Spectacles
  • Awaiting Authorisation
  • 9,632 posts

Posted 19 April 2007 - 09:17 AM

Yep to all of the above.

I was going to write the network and cable news channels and ask them to stop showing this, but I suspect the cat is out of the bag and Cho's "manifesto" will be plastered all over the Internet anyway.

I just wonder how many bullied kids with severe psychological problems will understand Cho and see him as a hero worth emulating, will believe that they are his "children and brothers and sisters" on whose behalf he committed mass murder.... Cho himself appeared to revere the Columbine killers.

On a personal note, I have a friend who suffers--and I do mean suffers--from paranoid schizophrenia. He has the delusions of grandeur, the narcissistic orientation that comes with paranoia, and a long list of individuals and organizations that he believes have targeted him for persecution. Some of Cho's rants reminded me of this person, but there is a significant difference: this person is capable of enormous compassion.

Plus, he's brilliant and his mind is more like "beautiful mind" portrayed in the film. He's mentally ill, yes, but he has a capacity for love and compassion that exceeds that of many "normal" people. In fact, I've confided in him when things aren't quite right in my life, and I've been moved to tears by his compassion and the uncommon wisdom of his responses. He's one of those rare people who know the right thing to say--and if he sees a friend in need, he can stick a cork in his paranoia so he can be there for them to lend emotional support. If he weren't ill, there is no telling what kind of contribution this person could make to society. It truly breaks my heart to see such a marvelous mind and loving spirit thwarted by this damned disease.

While he was afflicted with the same illness, there was a weird soul-less-ness to Cho that made him dangerous, just as lack of empathy makes all sorts of people--mentally ill or otherwise--dangerous.

I guess I'm sharing all of this in the hope that people make a distinction between mental illness and the sort of special spiritual sickness--utter lack of empathy--that it takes for a person to do what Cho did. After all, the Columbine killers weren't paranoid schizophrenics. Not all mass killers are paranoid schizophrenics and not all paranoid schizophrenics are mass killers. If the media is going to engage in psychological analysis of Cho, I hope that distinction is made. We need to be on guard, yes, but I think what we need to look for is not "thought disorder" as much as alienation.

Plus, it would be nice if all people taught their kids that bullying and ridiculing others is wrong. Some stupid parents seem to take pride when their kids are higher in the playground pecking order or they naively assume that their kids just wouldn't bully or torment another. Take a kid who is predisposed to mental illness and subject him to that stuff and too often someone pays the price down the line.

Edited by Spectacles, 19 April 2007 - 09:18 AM.

"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#29 Zwolf

Zwolf
  • Islander
  • 3,683 posts

Posted 19 April 2007 - 10:21 AM

Quote

Plus, it would be nice if all people taught their kids that bullying and ridiculing others is wrong. Some stupid parents seem to take pride when their kids are higher in the playground pecking order or they naively assume that their kids just wouldn't bully or torment another. Take a kid who is predisposed to mental illness and subject him to that stuff and too often someone pays the price down the line.

I figured that'd get me creamed if I said it, 'cuz it could be misinterpreted as a "blame the victim" thing, but now that it's been brought up... the media is only talking about how nice the other kids were to Cho, trying to talk to him and give him candy and stuff.   And don't doubt that, but I don't think it's the whole story, either.  I'm sure there were some who tried to reach out to him and he just ignored them out of paranoid mistrust or whatever.  I don't doubt that for a minute; there are a lot of nice people in the world.   But there sure are a lot of a-holes, too, and I'm also betting that there were a few around there who were real jerks to that kid, because he was a weirdo.  That doesn't give him an excuse, o' course, 'cuz there is no excuse for what he did.   Plenty of people get f'ed with and don't shoot up the world because of it.  Cho, or Kelbold, or Eric Harris, or whoever, made up their own mind to do the wrong thing, no matter what was done to them.  But it's still a consistent factor in these shootings that nobody ever addresses, because people feel sorry for the victims (as they should) and don't want to poke around much deeper than sympathy (which they should, if they want to fix it).  

Well, I shouldn't say nobody addresses it; I've heard one person, and it was in my sig line a few months ago, and that was comedian Doug Stanhope, who - despite being in some stupid Girls Gone Wild ads - is about the most fearless truth-teller since Bill Hicks.  Like Bill, I think he's wrong about some things, but at least he says 'em and puts them out there.  I had to shorten it for the sig, but here's a fuller version:

Quote

Civility is a learned behavior, and they don't have that class in high school. You come out and find that someone through a rock through your window just for fun or beat your mailbox off the front yard with a baseball bat or stuck a firecracker in your dog's ass, who was it, the elderly? No! No. Every school shooting, every parent comes out on the news and they'll have all the reasons why it happened, they'll say "It's the violence in the media, that's the problem right there, and parents don't communicate with their children anymore, that's really the problem, it's the rap music, that's the problem, there's no security in our schools, that's the problem! No, the problem is a lot of your kids are dicks and you won't do sh*t about it, that's the problem!

...

You never hear, "It's terrible how Andy Williams shot up our school, but I think it was my boy Ethan's fault, too, 'cuz he was a real pr*ck to that kid. Tell the cameras, son, tell 'em how you would pull his pants down in front of the cheerleaders and push his face into a snowbank... it's both their faults."

You get trolls on the internet, and people can get trolls in their real-life, too, and it's stupid whereever it happens.  Somewhere on that campus are some people who were likely a factor in this.  And they'll always have to feel some guilt for it.   That's one reason I don't think trolling is "cute," on the internet or elsewhere, and why I have so little tolerance for it, or for its f***ing apologists, who are almost more contemptable for knowing better and not having the guts to say so 'cuz they don't wanna lose their frrrriiiieeeends.

Anybody who was nice to Cho or at least left him alone can have no regrets.   They did what they could and he failed to hold up his end.  But somewhere I'm bettin' there are a few people with some major, heavy regrets.  I don't believe Cho's right in claiming "You forced me into a corner and gave me only one option," because that's a cop-out and a schizo trying to find excuses for an inexcusable reaction, but the likelihood that he got messed with is a factor, and an avoidable one.

Cheers,

Zwolf
"I've moved on and I'm feeling fine
And I'll feel even better
When your life has nothing to do with mine."
-Pittbull, "No Love Lost"

"There are things that I'd like to say
But I'm never talking to you again
There's things I'd like to phrase some way
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'd put you down where you belong
But I'm never talking to you again
I'd show you everywhere you're wrong
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you."
- Husker Du, "Never Talking To You Again"

#30 QueenTiye

QueenTiye

    Behavior is not reproducible over multiple trials.

  • Islander
  • 24,302 posts

Posted 19 April 2007 - 10:32 AM

And yet, do we honestly deserve better?

A while ago I proposed a "good news" forum for Ex Isle.  Many people downed the idea saying that talking about good news was boring.

I started my own forum with the express purpose of talking about the world in constructive ways, rather than destructive ways.  No hordes of people over there (ok... that's somewhat my fault with all the downtime and such, but still).  

As long as there's something to gripe about or gape at - we're excited, and know how to do it.  When there's something good to applaud or something constructive to be done - we get mighty scarce, and lethargic.  Can we really blame the media for milking for all its worth the profound negativity which is proven to sell?

QT

Een Draght Mackt Maght


#31 G1223

G1223

    The Blunt Object.

  • Dead account
  • 16,164 posts

Posted 19 April 2007 - 10:56 AM

Sorry QT I get tired of the end of the newscast. I am glad the old firedog found a family to adopt him and that Kitten found half drown was rescued and given back to his family and all is well.

What I am also tired of is.

Getting the video taped manifesto of mass killers.
News Stories that run on and on while new info is not comming in. Yet we hear people asking the on site guy for a nearly minute by minute updates and speculation of what is going on.
Having to hear the proceeding of a celeberty last wishes.
Waiting to hear from the mouth of the doctor why Anna Nicole dropped dead. A press release would do thank you very much.
Yes this stuff is News.(Kinda) but give me a more complete story if you are going to give an update. Do not stay on a scene if there is nothing new happening. You can break in if the police storm the bank with the hostages inside. But if that is not happening then move on. There are other things happening. Some of them might even be important.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#32 Zwolf

Zwolf
  • Islander
  • 3,683 posts

Posted 19 April 2007 - 12:35 PM

Update to what I was talking about.

Quote

Long before he boiled over, Virginia Tech gunman Cho Seung-Hui was picked on, pushed around and laughed at over his shyness and the strange way he talked when he was a schoolboy in the Washington suburbs, former classmates say.

...

Once, in English class, the teacher had the students read aloud, and when it was Cho's turn, he just looked down in silence, Davids recalled. Finally, after the teacher threatened him with an F for participation, Cho started to read in a strange, deep voice that sounded "like he had something in his mouth," Davids said.

"As soon as he started reading, the whole class started laughing and pointing and saying, `Go back to China,'" Davids said.

...

But she said friends of hers who went to middle school with Cho told her they recalled him getting picked on there.

"There were just some people who were really mean to him and they would push him down and laugh at him," Roberts said Wednesday. "He didn't speak English really well and they would really make fun of him."

You don't have to be Freud to see that there's no wonder the guy wouldn't talk to anybody.  Even the kids in college who wanted to be nice to him didn't have a chance, because a bunch of scumbags had already trained him to be afraid of trying to talk to anybody, lest he get mocked and laughed at.  The nice kids and the counsellors didn't have a hope in hell of getting through his shell, because of the junk the high school kids - and probably teachers, too, since these things happened in class and it doesn't sound like they did much to stop it - had already done to him.  The guy was already deranged from it and wasn't going to take another chance of getting set up for being the butt of another joke.

He's totally the only one responsible for this rampage, but he's not the only one guilty for it.  I know they're going to be talking gun-control around this thing in the coming months, but something else they need to be discussing is a-hole-control.  You get what you plant.

Cheers,

Zwolf
"I've moved on and I'm feeling fine
And I'll feel even better
When your life has nothing to do with mine."
-Pittbull, "No Love Lost"

"There are things that I'd like to say
But I'm never talking to you again
There's things I'd like to phrase some way
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'd put you down where you belong
But I'm never talking to you again
I'd show you everywhere you're wrong
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you."
- Husker Du, "Never Talking To You Again"

#33 G1223

G1223

    The Blunt Object.

  • Dead account
  • 16,164 posts

Posted 19 April 2007 - 02:44 PM

View PostZwolf, on Apr 19 2007, 01:35 PM, said:

He's totally the only one responsible for this rampage, but he's not the only one guilty for it.  I know they're going to be talking gun-control around this thing in the coming months, but something else they need to be discussing is a-hole-control.  You get what you plant.

Cheers,

Zwolf


Except that other people have been teased and do not take a gun into the halls looking for payback. The killer allowed himself to be programmed. He allowed others to push him. And this is one such event. It is possible this is what set him off. But there is alos the chance that he was just crazy and the smell of bleach is hat set him off or the sound of a plane flying over head.

That he was picked on is simply a dodge .  Guess what there are A-holes everywhere. They are going to be bosses co workers customers the guy across the hall or next door. So how do we control them.... I got it shoot them. That is it.

Yes your honor I shot my coworkers today as they were a-holes. I should be praised for killing them all with the shotgun.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#34 Dev F

Dev F

    Straighten your pope hat!

  • Islander
  • 3,757 posts

Posted 19 April 2007 - 03:29 PM

View PostSpectacles, on Apr 19 2007, 09:17 AM, said:

I just wonder how many bullied kids with severe psychological problems will understand Cho and see him as a hero worth emulating, will believe that they are his "children and brothers and sisters" on whose behalf he committed mass murder....
As gross as I think it is that the networks are airing the videos, I really don't think we have to worry about people emulating this guy. What I found most striking about the recordings was how badly he comes off -- not in a "My God, he's pure evil" sort of way, but in the sense of "Dang, this guy is really embarrassing himself."

I think the reason some people are drawn to the Columbine killers is because in a lot of ways they seem like they were bright, ordinary kids. Even in the depths of their evil intent, they seemed to be motivated by the things that drive normal overachieving teens -- a sense of both alienation and superiority, a desire to have fun and challenge themselves and show the world what they were capable of.

I don't think that's how Cho comes across. His rants seem inarticulate and incoherent. His mood seems desperate and pathetic, quite unlike that of the thrill-seeking, tough-talking Columbine killers. And his concerns are too ideosyncratic to speak to anyone but himself -- Jesus loved inducing cancer in his head? Ooookay.

In short, I don't think he's the kind of killer people tend to admire and emulate. He's not a Charlie Manson; he's a Jeffrey Dahmer.

View PostZwolf, on Apr 19 2007, 12:35 PM, said:

You don't have to be Freud to see that there's no wonder the guy wouldn't talk to anybody.  Even the kids in college who wanted to be nice to him didn't have a chance, because a bunch of scumbags had already trained him to be afraid of trying to talk to anybody, lest he get mocked and laughed at.  The nice kids and the counsellors didn't have a hope in hell of getting through his shell, because of the junk the high school kids - and probably teachers, too, since these things happened in class and it doesn't sound like they did much to stop it - had already done to him.  The guy was already deranged from it and wasn't going to take another chance of getting set up for being the butt of another joke.

He's totally the only one responsible for this rampage, but he's not the only one guilty for it.  I know they're going to be talking gun-control around this thing in the coming months, but something else they need to be discussing is a-hole-control.  You get what you plant.
Bah. When I was younger my voice was high-pitched and weird, and the dumbasses in my high school tormented me about it constantly. But I didn't grow up to be a mass murderer, because I'm not crazy or sociopathic enough to think that my own discomfort overrides the moral imperative not to murder innocent people.

#35 Zwolf

Zwolf
  • Islander
  • 3,683 posts

Posted 19 April 2007 - 03:58 PM

Quote

Except that other people have been teased and do not take a gun into the halls looking for payback. The killer allowed himself to be programmed. He allowed others to push him.

Which is something I hope I already made clear in my two posts on it.  He's responsible for his own reaction.  But it's also a fact that these shooters being bullied is a common factor in just about all these shooting incidents.  If you want to fix a problem, you go for the root cause.  And dealing with kids getting picked on is something schools aren't doing a good enough job in dealing with.  I know my high school didn't.  I saw teachers join in on picking on kids.  We had a coach who taught biology, and used to torment this one girl in our class until she'd cry.  He'd take her shoes away from her, put 'em in the front of the classroom, and dust erasers on them, just to be a jerk.  I had another teacher who loved to spread rumors about students in her other classes.  She implied that one guy in another class was incestuous with his mom, which was completely bogus.   She even tried it on me, once - she implied to a class that I took drugs, and people came to me and told me she said it, 'cuz they knew I hated drugs more than most people in the class.  I went to the teacher and confronted her about it and blessed her out for it, offering to take a piss test any time, any place, until she was shaking and apologizing.  I coulda gotten the old bat fired over that, and she knew it.  Frankly, I probably should have, it'd've helped a lot of other students out.

Quote

And this is one such event. It is possible this is what set him off. But there is alos the chance that he was just crazy and the smell of bleach is hat set him off or the sound of a plane flying over head.

That's possible, but those are factors we're not able to do much about.  What I'm talking about can be controlled a lot better than it is, both on the part of the teachers and administrators, and on the part of the students in general.  Is it that hard to just not play "f*** with the weirdo"?  Or to come down on people who do?  

Another high school story, since I'm tangenting already: I went to a private school, because I lived in an area that wouldn't have let me go to the good public school in my town, but some really bad, underfunded backwoods mess school.  I was a prodigy as a kid so my parents weren't going to waste me on that school, so they sent me to a private school instead.  It wasn't as good as the good public school, but it was a lot better than the really bad backwoods one I was in the district of.  Anyway, that private school was 100% white (most kids going there went because their parents didn't want them going to school with blacks).   When I was in 6th grade, this little black kid about 5 years old showed up at the school, and somebody said that it was the janitor's little boy and that he was going to start going to the school for free as a perk.  Several of my classmates freaked out that a black kid might be going to our school and they started swearing they'd beat him up every day... 12 year old kids threatening a 5-year old.  When I was in 6th grade I had some idiot racist ideas, I'll admit (I'm not proud of it, but I was 12, and I did wise up), but they were making me sick, and I wanted to tell them off, but I didn't.  Another classmate of mine, a guy named Scott who everybody liked and who had a lot more guts than I did, told them, "If any of you lay a hand on that kid, I'll beat the hell out of you."  Scott was a big guy but very laid back and it was almost impossible to make him mad, but he was ticked OFF.  All ten of those jerks froze, shut up, and got embarrassed by what they'd been saying.

Sometimes all it takes is one person saying "no."  But sometimes you don't even get that.  It might not be that hard to get it, though, if schools would encourage there to be more Scotts and fewer the-other-ten-guys.

Quote

That he was picked on is simply a dodge .

As I said earlier: "I don't believe Cho's right in claiming 'You forced me into a corner and gave me only one option,' because that's a cop-out and a schizo trying to find excuses for an inexcusable reaction. "  He's still entirely responsible for the way he responded to the problem.  So were Klebold and Harris and Kip Kinkle and Luke Woodham and all the rest of these creeps. But that doesn't mean we should just ignore the problem, either.

Wanna know one of the reasons I'm so hardcore against child abuse, putting up links to vachss.com and preaching it all over the place?  It's not cause I'm especially fond of kids.  I don't even like kids all that much.  I hate anybody who harms 'em, but I don't really want 'em around me.   The reason I'm so vehement against child abuse is because if you can stop that, you can stop a lot of your violent crime that happens when abused kids grow up.  You'd have a hard time finding anybody in prison for violent crime who wasn't abused as a kid.    And, yes, you do get lots of people who were horribly abused as kids and grow up to be great, super-nice, honest adults, the same way you get kids who were picked on in school who don't deal with it by shooting people like a crazed idiot.   But it's still a factor that can be dealt with.  

When I see a problem, I try to look for the root causes and eradicate them as much as possible.  You can kill rats in your house all day long, but if you really want to save yourself time and energy, try to find the point of entry, y'know?  And these factors are points of entry that get you the undesirable behavior.

Quote

Guess what there are A-holes everywhere. They are going to be bosses co workers customers the guy across the hall or next door. So how do we control them.... I got it shoot them. That is it.

Nope, you're either missing what I'm saying completely, or you don't care and are substituting something else for it.

Quote

Yes your honor I shot my coworkers today as they were a-holes. I should be praised for killing them all with the shotgun.

Get back to me when you feel like discussing anything I'm actually sayin', okay?  'Cuz I'm not gonna spend time trying to bat down things you invent and attribute...

Cheers,

Zwolf
"I've moved on and I'm feeling fine
And I'll feel even better
When your life has nothing to do with mine."
-Pittbull, "No Love Lost"

"There are things that I'd like to say
But I'm never talking to you again
There's things I'd like to phrase some way
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'd put you down where you belong
But I'm never talking to you again
I'd show you everywhere you're wrong
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you."
- Husker Du, "Never Talking To You Again"

#36 Zwolf

Zwolf
  • Islander
  • 3,683 posts

Posted 19 April 2007 - 04:14 PM

Quote

Bah. When I was younger my voice was high-pitched and weird, and the dumbasses in my high school tormented me about it constantly. But I didn't grow up to be a mass murderer, because I'm not crazy or sociopathic enough to think that my own discomfort overrides the moral imperative not to murder innocent people.

Believe me, I understand that.  I've related my stories about getting knives pulled on me and what-not during high school, too, and I never shot anybody, either.   Fists, yeah, bullets, no.

But that's because you and I are relatively sane, smart, and can figure out other ways to deal with things.

You take somebody who's already a little unbalanced,  with those crazy teenage hormones going, and start screwing with 'em... there's no telling what you'll get.  Maybe the guy would have snapped anyway, but I think it's safe to say getting messed with was a contributing factor.  Why not try to do more about that, rather than trust everyone to be sane enough to deal with it better?

Cheers,

Zwolf
"I've moved on and I'm feeling fine
And I'll feel even better
When your life has nothing to do with mine."
-Pittbull, "No Love Lost"

"There are things that I'd like to say
But I'm never talking to you again
There's things I'd like to phrase some way
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'd put you down where you belong
But I'm never talking to you again
I'd show you everywhere you're wrong
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you."
- Husker Du, "Never Talking To You Again"

#37 G1223

G1223

    The Blunt Object.

  • Dead account
  • 16,164 posts

Posted 19 April 2007 - 04:30 PM

And as I know from brother who is schizo and on meds now. From where I see it and based on seeing what set off my brother. A girl could be wearing too high a skirt line and it will set the guy off.  No one bulling him simply the voice in his head shouted at him and he reacted to the voice.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#38 Vapor Trails

Vapor Trails

    In a world where I feel so small, I can't stop thinking big.

  • Awaiting Authorisation
  • 16,523 posts

Posted 19 April 2007 - 04:38 PM

View Postscherzo, on Apr 18 2007, 12:01 AM, said:

I'm mostly avoiding the coverage. Some pathetic waste of life ends up destroying the lives of others. Seems like just another day in the news to me. There's nothing new to be learned here I'm afraid.

-scherzo

What he said. IN SPADES.

I couldn't have put it any better if I tried.
Posted Image

Politicians are like bananas; they hang together, they're all yellow, and there's not a straight one among them.

"We're relevant for $ and a vote once every two years. Beyond that, we're completely irrelevant, except of course to consume, and preach the gospel according to [insert political demigod here]."--Cait

#39 Lover of Purple

Lover of Purple

    Mustang Man

  • Retired Board Owner
  • 11,215 posts

Posted 19 April 2007 - 04:44 PM

Well, it MIGHT get others to try:

Quote

Authorities put all 36 schools in 12 Northern California school districts under lockdown Thursday as police searched for a man who claimed he was planning an armed attack that would “make Virginia Tech look mild.”

The entire article is here: Copy cats or doing one upmanship?

Also, read farther down and it talks about how the schools all over are getting threats!

#40 Vapor Trails

Vapor Trails

    In a world where I feel so small, I can't stop thinking big.

  • Awaiting Authorisation
  • 16,523 posts

Posted 19 April 2007 - 04:48 PM

View PostSpidey, on Apr 18 2007, 02:21 AM, said:

I'm glad he's dead.  Now he has to answer to a higher power.

Too bad that "higher power" didn't intervene BEFORE this happened.

"Higher power," huh? Hmmm. I'd like to have a long talk with this so-called "higher power" about the crap innocent folks have to put with on this rotten excuse of a planet. :angry:

I'm reminded of when I accompanied my mom to church a day after 9/11 (she's a believer, I'm not-but she doesn't need to know that-she wanted to go to church). The priest said, "A lot of you are wondering why God allowed this to happen."

Then he frowned and said, "I don't know."

Part of me wanted to take a hymn book from the seat behind me and bean him on the head with it. :angry:

Edited by Digital Man, 19 April 2007 - 04:50 PM.

Posted Image

Politicians are like bananas; they hang together, they're all yellow, and there's not a straight one among them.

"We're relevant for $ and a vote once every two years. Beyond that, we're completely irrelevant, except of course to consume, and preach the gospel according to [insert political demigod here]."--Cait



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Virginia, Virginia Tech, Shootings, Media Coverage, 2007

0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users