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Virginia Virginia Tech Shootings Media Coverage 2007

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#61 Timon

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Posted 20 April 2007 - 02:06 PM

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There are lots of kinds of autism, from what I understand, and one of them is an inability to properly gauge emotions.

Okay, I only know autism from how it's portrayed on t.v. and usually they portray it as someone totally in their own world. Didn't know there was more than one type.

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I heard that Hillary Clinton was using what happened at Virginia Tech to launch a "Violent video games are responsible for this" campaign. If so, I'm surprised no one's posted anything about it on here  Is it true?

She couldn't be that stupid. Especially since the video game market is a big money maker (big companies) and I'm sure some of that will end up in campaign contributions to her cause. And Hillary loves her some corporate campaign funds.

#62 Tricia

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Posted 20 April 2007 - 02:42 PM

View PostSparkyCola, on Apr 20 2007, 07:59 PM, said:

I heard that Hillary Clinton was using what happened at Virginia Tech to launch a "Violent video games are responsible for this" campaign. If so, I'm surprised no one's posted anything about it on here :eh: Is it true?

Sparky

I hadn't heard that but movies as an influence were brought up on some program yesterday.  Not sure which one as it was on in the waiting room.  But they mentioned Natural Born Killersand some Korean movie that Cho had evidently watched.  Some of his poses in that packet he sent to NBC were almost perfect copies of scenes from that movie.

I guess stuff like that can have some influence on behavior but if someone gets all their cues on how to act from movies or video games then I'm not sure what that says about how they were raised or their mental state



But about the autism...there are many forms of autism but I'm not sure of all the behaviors that would be associated with those different variations.

But even if he had autism...did his parents not seek help or the different therapies like skills classes. etc that are recommended?   Autism has been pretty widely covered lately in magazines and on some of the talk/morning shows in the US.  Plus there are support groups for the parents and family.  And this is not just in recent years.  

And from reading the link, it really sounds like the family did not communicate that often with their Korean relatives so not sure why the press is bothering them (the Korean relatives)  about a child they had not seen or talked to since 1992

Now that is really going overboard IMO.

Edited by trikay, 20 April 2007 - 02:42 PM.

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#63 Dev F

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Posted 20 April 2007 - 02:45 PM

View PostZwolf, on Apr 20 2007, 10:35 AM, said:

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And you know what? If it weren't for the fact that my depression tends to make me too lazy to do anything or makes me take things out on myself, I could see myself snapping and killing the lot of them.
I think that's normal.  Or at least I hope it is, because I know I spent a few study halls figuring out ways to kill off a lot of my classmates.  I imagine just about every high school kid thinks those thoughts now and then, 'cuz it's a tough situation... your hormones are all out of whack, you're almost an adult but you've got fewer rights than anybody, and you're surrounded by the nastiest batch of people you'll ever meet in your life.  Maturity will take care of a lot of that, but when you're that age, thinking murder is probably a sane reaction to a lot of what goes on.  Luckily, most people are able to stop themselves at just thinking, and not go crazy and act on it.   That's the key.
But if that's the case -- if countless kids are bullied all the time and an overwhelming majority of them manage not to go on killing sprees -- isn't that rather persuasive evidence that bullying doesn't cause kids to snap?

Oh, I'm sure it can serve as an inciting incident for people who already have serious problems, but that's not the same thing. It's the difference between saying "If you have a weak heart you might go into cardiac arrest on a roller coaster" and saying "Rollers coasters give people heart attacks!"

When someone dies on a roller coaster and we find out that he had a weak heart, we accept that his death was a tragic result of his own bodily illness; we don't start running around in a panic trying to shut down all the nation's roller coasters. So how come when someone goes postal and we find out that he suffered for years from a grave personality disorder, we can't just accept that his actions were a tragic result of his own mental illness, and not a sign of some horrible social problem?

And sure, the comparison isn't exact, because bullying is a negative phenomenon whereas roller coasters are fun for the whole family. But just because something is bad doesn't mean it's "turns people into homicidal monsters" bad. That's an extreme conclusion to jump to based on the aberrant actions of a statistically insignificant minority of crazy people.

#64 QueenTiye

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Posted 20 April 2007 - 03:00 PM

^^While it is most probably true that bullying doesn't "turn people" into psychopathic killers unless there is something wrong with the person in the first place (and the bullying=killer scenario doesn't take into account other factors like ... parenting, other social networks, etc.), the extreme is the sounding bell for all the rest.  When we see an iceberg, we don't make like the Titanic and keep creeping up on it - we change course.

What about the OTHER factors of bullying that have wider repercussions?  What about the attack at the self-esteem of the person, so that they are inhibited by self-doubt, attracted to sick relationships, etc.?  And - why not deal with the issue, since it is largely solveable?

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#65 G1223

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Posted 20 April 2007 - 03:59 PM

View PostSparkyCola, on Apr 20 2007, 02:59 PM, said:

I heard that Hillary Clinton was using what happened at Virginia Tech to launch a "Violent video games are responsible for this" campaign. If so, I'm surprised no one's posted anything about it on here :eh: Is it true?

Sparky

I wonder if she can get Tipper Gore to comeout in support of it. I mean Tipper was all for supressing speech back in the 80's and 90's till her Husband was vice President.
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#66 G1223

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Posted 20 April 2007 - 04:02 PM

View PostTimon, on Apr 20 2007, 02:36 PM, said:

I'm not sure if the bullying played a huge part in this Cho guy going ballistic. Earlier today Cho's great aunt claimed he was diagnosed with autism soon after they emigrated to the U.S.


Don't you see it must be bulling that made him do it.

People you are nearing the halfway mark of the great tail chase. This guy was madman you are trying to find some sense from his actions.
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#67 Zwolf

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Posted 20 April 2007 - 04:21 PM

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People you are nearing the halfway mark of the great tail chase. This guy was madman you are trying to find some sense from his actions.

I don't do it a lot, G, but I do some hunting from time to time.  And there's a maxim about hunting, from one o' my fave warrior-philosophers, Marc "Animal" MacYoung:

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"If you are going to hunt tigers, you must learn all you can about them.  How they hunt, sleep, make love, everything.  If you don't, you're not hunting, you're just walking in the woods."

If you don't want to understand that strategy, or how it applies to this situation, then that's okay.  But it's worked for me enough times where I'm sticking to it.

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#68 Spectacles

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Posted 20 April 2007 - 04:29 PM

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G:

Don't you see it must be bulling that made him do it.

No, I don't. And furthermore I don't see a single person on this thread who is saying that.
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#69 G1223

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Posted 20 April 2007 - 05:44 PM

We have people trying to say tha the people who did the bulling of Cho armed a bomb. That we need safeguards against a million years of human behavior. There have always been clichs and there likely will be. You can only help those close to you. Just as other folks helped you.


The reality is that every person at one time or another has had the same problem. Yet we did not all become maladjusted killers of people. Some have emtional scars and other physical and others a larger group of us simply moved on.

I agree the schools needs to step in but realize that the schools are not going to be there till after the situation happens.
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#70 Raina

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Posted 21 April 2007 - 05:44 AM

View PostDev F, on Apr 20 2007, 12:45 PM, said:

But if that's the case -- if countless kids are bullied all the time and an overwhelming majority of them manage not to go on killing sprees -- isn't that rather persuasive evidence that bullying doesn't cause kids to snap?
But even if the overwhelming majority of them manage to cope, it only takes a couple of them snapping to destroy many lives.


View PostG1223, on Apr 20 2007, 02:02 PM, said:

Don't you see it must be bulling that made him do it.
No, I'm saying that bullying may have been one of several factors that contributed to what he did. It sounds like he had issues right from the start, but maybe if he hadn't been bullied, he would have coped or, at worse, only killed himself. But maybe it was the bullying that pushed him over the edge enough that he took a bunch of innocent people out with him.

Granted, maybe he would have gone over the edge eventually anyways, but the bullying couldn't have helped matters at all.

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#71 Rhea

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Posted 21 April 2007 - 12:39 PM

View PostTimon, on Apr 20 2007, 11:36 AM, said:

I'm not sure if the bullying played a huge part in this Cho guy going ballistic. Earlier today Cho's great aunt claimed he was diagnosed with autism soon after they emigrated to the U.S.

http://www.ndtv.com/...EWEN20070009309

Quote

Virginia Tech gunman Cho Seung-hui was diagnosed with autism after the family emigrated to the United States, a relative in South Korea said.

''From the beginning, he wouldn't answer me,'' said Kim Yang-soon, Cho's great aunt. ''(He) didn't talk. Normally sons and mothers talk. There was none of that for them. He was very cold.''

''When they went to the United States, they told them it was autism,'' said Kim, 85, adding that the family had constant worries about Cho.

Now I don't know much about autism, but I thought autistic people were in a world of their own and all the bullying in the world wouldn't penetrate? Or maybe he wasn't seriously affected by it and could get along some, so maybe the bullying made things even worse than they might have been. Hard to say I guess.

Doesn't sound like somebody on the autistic spectrum to me. Mostly, they're very little aware of other people and their feelings - they're much more interested in whatever they perseverate on - how sophisticated the perserveration (compulsion) is depends on how high-functioning the autistic person is. In small children the perserveration can manifest as an obsession with a certain toy or videotape or even something simple like an electric fan. I've never known an autistic person who gave much of a sh*t of anything going on in the world around him or her, and certainly not enough to do what Cho did.

It's just the age-old question - why do some people who are abused become abusers and others don't, or why do most kids survive bullying without becoming murderers? Why does anyone decide to murder another human being? That's always seemed like a form of insanity to me anyway.

Something was seriously wrong with this kid emotionally anyway - a huge dysfunction. Too bad they couldn't help him back when he was checked into a psych ward.

The lack of interaction with other people strikes me more like a psycopath or a sociopath than anything else.

We see children as young as 3 or 4 diagnosed with schizophrenia now. We had a baby psycopath in the program one year - she could be talking about everyday things and suddenly segue into talking about drowning her dog in the pool or killing her mother. :eek: It was damn scary to watch a 3-year-old say these things in a normal tone of voice. Some people just come out of the womb wired wrong - we're just lucky that most mentally ill people hurt themselves and not others. I guess that will continue to be the case until they can figure out how to really cure mental illnesses like schizophrenia.

The other thing is that college seems to bring out the worst in some people anyway - they have nervous breakdowns or they fall apart in some other way. The first time living away from home is a huge stress for a lot of people.

Edited by Rhea, 21 April 2007 - 12:48 PM.

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