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Bomb Bomb Bomb, Bomb Bomb Iran

Election 2008 John McCain Republicans

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#21 G1223

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Posted 20 April 2007 - 09:13 AM

Then stop trying to say we need to talk to these people. They are not looking to have these weapons for peaceful purposes. They have and continued to speak about destroying Israel. Unlike other nations in the world Israel has not gone on a rampage of extermination. Nor has it's people elected a party that is a terrorist organzation.

I have in my 42 years heard time and again how we need to each outto the Iranian students and help them make democratic changes to their country. I heard it back in 80's 90 and now we are in the first decade of the 21 century and still people demand we try to do what has not work in nearly 30 years.

They are preparing to fight and you are still seem to be talking to them like it will suddenly work.
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#22 Godeskian

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Posted 20 April 2007 - 10:50 AM

View PostG1223, on Apr 20 2007, 03:13 PM, said:

Then stop trying to say we need to talk to these people.

You know, I've reread my posts in this thread half a dozen times, and all I see is a condemnation of a pointless attack on a civilian population.

You know, that thing you keep attacking terrorists over.

That's all i've done in this thread, and I swear to whatever almighty exists that if you try and put words in my mouth again you'll see a side of me you've never seen. There is NOTHING, in this world that so angers me as that. Nothing that so denigrates the time and effort I put into my posts as someone putting words in my mouth.

Don't do it again. :angry:

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#23 SparkyCola

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Posted 20 April 2007 - 11:20 AM

Calm down Gode :hugs:

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There is NOTHING, in this world that so angers me as that.

really? :eh:  

Apart from that, (there are several things which make me angrier than that in this world) - I agree with Gode and Specs.

G, the terrorists have already lost time and time again and they will keep on losing. They don't see that rebuilding and working together is more powerful, and takes a lot more courage and intellect than the mindless destruction that is all they seem capable of. Do you want to sink to their level? Like Gode says, it's bad tactically and ethically to bomb innocent people in the hopes of getting one or two terrorists. To see whether or not they have won then look at their goals. Have they wiped out the population of America and the west? No. Have they turned us into agoraphobics? No, actually most of us are going about our daily lives just as normal. Have they gained any sympathy? Uhh....I don't think so!! Have they made any Islamic converts? Not likely. In what way have they won? If they think they are more determined than we are they're wrong.

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#24 Godeskian

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Posted 20 April 2007 - 11:27 AM

View PostSparkyCola, on Apr 20 2007, 05:20 PM, said:

Calm down Gode :hugs:

Quote

There is NOTHING, in this world that so angers me as that.

really? :eh:  

On a personal level? No, there really isn't anything that makes me as angry as putting words in my mouth. I think about what I say, and I put quite a bit of effort, both online and off, to make sure that what I say is what I meant to say. To have someone else come in, and just completely trample over that by claiming I said something else is amazingly disrespectful. It devalues my participation, makes light of what I posted, and generally denigrates everything else I might say.

I'd actually rather someone tell me 'Hey Jackass, you're wrong, so shut the hell up' than to intentionally put words in my mouth, because at least the former is honest disagreement. The second is just deceitful.

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#25 Kosh

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Posted 20 April 2007 - 11:31 AM

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If Israel attacks Iran then Iran is likely to try to strike back at both us and Iran. Iran isn't going to sit on their rear after the Israelis hit them hard. If we have to fight Iran I would rather be the ones getting in the first strike and hitting their war fighting capability as hard as possible from the start. It isn't the best option but if it comes down to a war I'd rather be getting the first heavy punch in ourselves.

It would be our third front with an active war, and four if you count  Korea, since we can't remove troops from the border. If we start something with Iran we'd either have to draft soldiers or go Nuclear against them, then the rest of the world, under the UN, would come after us. We can't fight Iran until we can get out of one theater.
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#26 Kosh

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Posted 20 April 2007 - 11:33 AM

View PostGodeskian, on Apr 20 2007, 12:27 PM, said:

View PostSparkyCola, on Apr 20 2007, 05:20 PM, said:

Calm down Gode :hugs:

Quote

There is NOTHING, in this world that so angers me as that.

really? :eh:  

On a personal level? No, there really isn't anything that makes me as angry as putting words in my mouth. I think about what I say, and I put quite a bit of effort, both online and off, to make sure that what I say is what I meant to say. To have someone else come in, and just completely trample over that by claiming I said something else is amazingly disrespectful. It devalues my participation, makes light of what I posted, and generally denigrates everything else I might say.

I'd actually rather someone tell me 'Hey Jackass, you're wrong, so shut the hell up' than to intentionally put words in my mouth, because at least the former is honest disagreement. The second is just deceitful.


Not to mention that it's also a sign of a weak argument. If they can't refute what you say, make up something else.
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#27 Spectacles

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Posted 20 April 2007 - 11:33 AM

View PostG1223, on Apr 20 2007, 10:13 AM, said:

Then stop trying to say we need to talk to these people. They are not looking to have these weapons for peaceful purposes. They have and continued to speak about destroying Israel. Unlike other nations in the world Israel has not gone on a rampage of extermination. Nor has it's people elected a party that is a terrorist organzation.

I have in my 42 years heard time and again how we need to each outto the Iranian students and help them make democratic changes to their country. I heard it back in 80's 90 and now we are in the first decade of the 21 century and still people demand we try to do what has not work in nearly 30 years.

They are preparing to fight and you are still seem to be talking to them like it will suddenly work.

G, aside from the bit about your misrepresenting what Gode is saying, I do understand your frustration. It's an enormously frustrating situation. And I personally am not thrilled with the prospect of a nuclear-armed Iran.

If there's a way we could take out their facilities without making matters worse, I'd support it. But I've lost faith in our ability to take action without things getting completely FUBAR.

And while striking out militarily in frustration is an understandable impulse, well, look at Iraq. We did exactly what the neoconservatives had wanted us to do for years. We got tired of monkeying around with Saddam, overthrew him, and enabled a democratically-elected government to take his place. Didn't that go well? Tyrants and terrorists all around the world sure learned a lesson from that, didn't they?
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#28 Tricia

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Posted 20 April 2007 - 11:57 AM

View PostScottEVill, on Apr 19 2007, 02:41 PM, said:

Quote

Another man wondering if an attack on Iran is in the works wanted to know when America is going to “send an air mail message to Tehran.”
McCain began his answer by changing the words to a popular Beach Boys song.
“Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran,” he sang to the tune of Barbara Ann.

Frankly, I'd rather think McCain has lost his marbles than that he's lost his scruples, 'cause this could track either way.  

All this pandering to people he spat at in 2000... Falwell, in particular.  

Something's not right... the Straight Talk Express has taken a bit of a detour (down B*llsh*t Blvd).  I'd rather think he's been felled by dementia than by the desire to get to the Oval Office no matter what.

As much as I have always disagreed with his positions on most issues, I used to think he was better than that.  Was I just wrong, or has something really changed?

I used to adore McCain. :(

But his recent turn to the religious right and Falwell made me lose the respect for him.  

I hate politicians pandering to certain groups just to get the vote and thus elected.  

It means either the person has changed their ideas that I liked about them or that they are just simply saying what certain groups want to hear (IE kissing ,er, butt) .  Either way I don't like it and it sure won't get me to vote for him.  I hate brown-nosers and that is what this feels like.


In this case, I think it was meant as a joke.  A bad joke and  he should have known a lot better.  The press is always waiting to jump on a statement like that and it is something that will alienate a good portion of the voters.  It's out there now and can not be taken back no matter what the explanation

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#29 Spectacles

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Posted 20 April 2007 - 12:12 PM

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trikay: I used to adore McCain. sad.gif


Yep, I miss the old McCain, and I seriously wonder about his judgment these days. It seems off. I hope there's not some underlying health problem that's causing it; after all, he's 72. Some 72-year-olds are sharper than I'll ever be, but some folks start to lose a few beats in their seventies (and sixties...and fifties, for that matter  :blink: ).

Quote

trikay: In this case, I think it was meant as a joke. A bad joke and he should have known a lot better. The press is always waiting to jump on a statement like that and it is something that will alienate a good portion of the voters.

Agreed. And in this case, the press doesn't have to do any jumping, just repeating. What's troubling is the childishness of the joke. Again, singing "bomb bomb bomb--bomb bomb Iran" is something a person might do among friends, but it's really poor judgment to be silly about something like this when running for the highest office in the land.

We've already had six years of a president who thinks it's cool to act like a fratboy, and we see the effects: the world thinks we're a rogue superpower of ignoramuses (ignorami?...whatever--we look stoopid and dangerous). Most of us are anxious to repair that damage, not add to it.

It's almost like McCain thinks he can win by being George W. Bush. I just don't get it....
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#30 G1223

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Posted 20 April 2007 - 12:36 PM

View PostSpectacles, on Apr 20 2007, 12:33 PM, said:

G, aside from the bit about your misrepresenting what Gode is saying, I do understand your frustration. It's an enormously frustrating situation. And I personally am not thrilled with the prospect of a nuclear-armed Iran.

If there's a way we could take out their facilities without making matters worse, I'd support it. But I've lost faith in our ability to take action without things getting completely FUBAR.

Then what are prepared to do? Sit there adn talk them to death while they safe behind the bomb go about attacking other nations? After all where do we draw the line? If you do not want a mutual exchange between us and Iran then you have to accept that we need to destroy the reacotrs and do so so that they have nothing to rebuild with. I have never once said lets send troops. I think leveled and unable to be walked on ground for the next 500 years is sufficent to keep them from getting the bomb.

And as to the rest of the world. Do you think the UN is going to be able short of having a month long discussion about color paper to send their terse note to us on is going to achieve anything I really got to ask who is going to when we look over and say. The US Vetoes this measure with our security council vote.

The rules lawyers at the UN could not even expell North Korea at a time when it was in conflict with the same UN.

Outside of a organization that coordinates relief work the UN has proven to be as useful as the Leauge of Nations.

But all that aside When are you going to do something besides talk. Because Iran is certain it is going to get the bomb. They are simply nickle and dimming us and are going to get what they want.
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#31 Godeskian

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Posted 20 April 2007 - 01:21 PM

Hey G, I just wanted to apologise for my tone. I don't like what you did, but I had no call to get that upset at you. I'm sorry.

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#32 Rhea

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Posted 20 April 2007 - 02:11 PM

I consider McClain's recent pandering to Bush's support base as evidence of senility anyway, since he's had to change his stance on a lot of issues to get support from the religious right, something he would never have done 6 or 7 years ago. But the whole "bomb Iran" fiasco convinces me that he really IS senile, because it's so wildly inappropriate for a Presidential candidate (a standup comic, sure). :wacko:  :wacko:

Edited by Rhea, 20 April 2007 - 02:32 PM.

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#33 Spectacles

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Posted 20 April 2007 - 03:01 PM

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G: The rules lawyers at the UN could not even expell North Korea at a time when it was in conflict with the same UN.

Outside of a organization that coordinates relief work the UN has proven to be as useful as the Leauge of Nations.

But all that aside When are you going to do something besides talk. Because Iran is certain it is going to get the bomb. They are simply nickle and dimming us and are going to get what they want.

I'm not happy that North Korea has nukes, either. But it's worth noting that they developed them while the tough-talking George W. Bush called Kim Jong Il an evil "pygmy" and refused to negotiate with him. You gotta admit, G, the guns-a 'blazin' - thou-shalt-not-speak-to-evildoers approach to foreign policy crises doesn't seem to be any more effective than the "tea and cookies" approach that sets your teeth on edge.

Now, you can (and probably will :) ) argue that Bush should've just nuked North Korea off the planet. Let's say he did. What would likely be the consequences for us? I myself don't know, but I'm assuming that some dreaded consequence is what has kept Bush's usually clumsy finger off the button.

And let's say Iran develops nukes--a likelihood. What do you think Iran will do with them? Nuke Israel? And what will likely happen to Iran if they do?
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#34 Spectacles

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Posted 20 April 2007 - 03:04 PM

Oops. I meant to respond to this earlier:

Spidey: Tea and cookies was G's line. wink2.gif I come up with my own material. tongue.gif biggrin.gif

:D
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#35 Godeskian

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Posted 20 April 2007 - 03:22 PM

View PostSpectacles, on Apr 20 2007, 09:01 PM, said:

Now, you can (and probably will :) ) argue that Bush should've just nuked North Korea off the planet. Let's say he did. What would likely be the consequences for us?

I should point out that when a country decides that acting like a beliggerent barbarian is an okay thing to do, then your allies and friends will start to look at you differently.

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#36 Kosh

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Posted 20 April 2007 - 03:26 PM

Quote

Yep, I miss the old McCain, and I seriously wonder about his judgment these days. It seems off. I hope there's not some underlying health problem that's causing it; after all, he's 72. Some 72-year-olds are sharper than I'll ever be, but some folks start to lose a few beats in their seventies (and sixties...and fifties, for that matter

The old McCain couldn't get the republican nomination, so he has gone in the direction of the person who beat him. It wont work, since he now looks as two faced as Mit Romney. He's not getting senile, but his political instincts have failed him. He probably could have been elected in 08 as an independent, had he staid where he was politicly, but I can't see him being elected now.
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#37 Captain Jack

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Posted 20 April 2007 - 03:31 PM

So, since most of the members posting here feel that talking is the answer to all problems, tell me this; how do you talk to some one who doesn't want to listen, compromise, or even work with you?  Talking can only take things so far.  I'm not advocating we don't talk at all, but when a nation, or nations continue to ignore other nations attempts at talks, and coming to mutual agreements, what's next?  Talk some more?  Iran isn't talking, they're doing.  They've been doing, and will continue to do it.  They seem to enjoy defying others.  With all the talking, Iran has 3000 centrifuges.  How many more will they build while more talking goes on?  How much one-sided talking will go on when Iran produces nuclear war-heads, or actually tests some, or even worse, uses a few on a nearby nation they don't particularly care for?  Will there be more one sided talking while Iran continues to ignore it?  Just curious...
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#38 BklnScott

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Posted 20 April 2007 - 03:48 PM

View PostSpidey, on Apr 20 2007, 04:31 PM, said:

So, since most of the members posting here feel that talking is the answer to all problems, tell me this; how do you talk to some one who doesn't want to listen, compromise, or even work with you?  Talking can only take things so far.  I'm not advocating we don't talk at all, but when a nation, or nations continue to ignore other nations attempts at talks, and coming to mutual agreements, what's next?  Talk some more?  Iran isn't talking, they're doing.  They've been doing, and will continue to do it.  They seem to enjoy defying others.  With all the talking, Iran has 3000 centrifuges.  How many more will they build while more talking goes on?  How much one-sided talking will go on when Iran produces nuclear war-heads, or actually tests some, or even worse, uses a few on a nearby nation they don't particularly care for?  Will there be more one sided talking while Iran continues to ignore it?  Just curious...

We have not talked to Iran.  Why are people acting as though we have, and those talks failed?

As far as "defying others" goes -- Iran is not a unique nation in that regard.  Doesn't seem to bother you when we do it.

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#39 G1223

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Posted 20 April 2007 - 03:51 PM

View PostGodeskian, on Apr 20 2007, 04:22 PM, said:

View PostSpectacles, on Apr 20 2007, 09:01 PM, said:

Now, you can (and probably will :) ) argue that Bush should've just nuked North Korea off the planet. Let's say he did. What would likely be the consequences for us?

I should point out that when a country decides that acting like a beliggerent barbarian is an okay thing to do, then your allies and friends will start to look at you differently.

Odd it has never once stopped China nor those who want China to prosper. Even those in this country. They keep saying that things are changing. Odd they never want to recall Tiamein Square or the suppression of other groups . Because we must understand that China is a enlightened and peaceful nation. I guess we could ask Tibet but with gag in it's mouth that would be kind of hard. Just take the heat for a few years and then all will blow over.  Why? Well ask China that is how things are suppose to work.
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When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

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#40 G1223

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Posted 20 April 2007 - 03:56 PM

View PostScottEVill, on Apr 20 2007, 04:48 PM, said:

We have not talked to Iran.  Why are people acting as though we have, and those talks failed?

As far as "defying others" goes -- Iran is not a unique nation in that regard.  Doesn't seem to bother you when we do it.

Well lets see. I seem to recall a set of talks where Iran said we are going to keep going with our nuclear project.

I guess they were meaning and the newspeak always confuses me.  Oh lords yes we are not wantig this horrible thing please take it from us.

So yes we have talked to them. And they are simply going ahead with their bomb making plant assembly and the west is saying we will impose something to make you do as we say. I would not be surprised if it was not a 24/7 project. Get as much done before the sanctions cause a slow down. Not a stoppage simply a slow down.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

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