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Oy, Giuliani...

Election 2008 Rudy Giuliani Republicans

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#1 Captain Jack

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 06:31 PM

http://news.yahoo.co...y178rrPicFp24cA

Quote

By NEDRA PICKLER, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 37 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - Democratic presidential candidates on Wednesday rebuked Republican rival Rudy Giuliani for suggesting that the United States could face another major terrorist attack if a Democrat is elected in 2008. The former New York mayor did not back down.

Illinois Sen. Barack Obama (news, bio, voting record) said Giuliani, who was in office on Sept. 11, 2001, should not be making the terrorist threat into "the punchline of another political attack.

I agree with Obama entirely with this.  Giuliani has been riding his whole campaign on the 9/11 tragedy, and it's becoming pretty aggravating.  Getting votes by creating fear is not how to run a good campaign.  Frankly, if this is what he's going to be doing throughout his campaign, he shouldn't be running for President.  Better to bow out as some one who stepped up to the plate in NYC in a dark time, than as a man who used that event to try to boost votes.  Bad form.
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#2 Godeskian

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 06:42 PM

Given that the last major terrorist attack on US soil happened during a Republican presidents tenure, i'm not sure how he thinks a Democrat being elected will cause another major attack.

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#3 Captain Jack

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 06:48 PM

View PostGodeskian, on Apr 25 2007, 04:42 PM, said:

Given that the last major terrorist attack on US soil happened during a Republican presidents tenure, i'm not sure how he thinks a Democrat being elected will cause another major attack.

Your eye looks gross, Gode, but at you see my point. :cool:  He can't possibly make that assumption.  No one can.  This whole election shoult not be a D vs R competition.  This should be about finding the RIGHT person to be CIC, no matter what party they happen to be part of.  To say that the Democrats will increase our chances of another terrorist attack is like saying Republicans increase the risk of more hurricanes.  And, I don't like the tactics he using by trying to scare voters away from Democrats.  Yes, people are that stupid, unfortunately.
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#4 Godeskian

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 06:56 PM

Negative campaigning has always struck me as rather odd, because you aren't selling the message that you'd be good, you're trying to convince people that the other guy is worse than you.

It always seemd a tad self-defeating to me.

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#5 RobL

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 01:14 AM

View PostSpidey, on Apr 25 2007, 03:31 PM, said:

http://news.yahoo.co...y178rrPicFp24cA

Quote

By NEDRA PICKLER, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 37 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - Democratic presidential candidates on Wednesday rebuked Republican rival Rudy Giuliani for suggesting that the United States could face another major terrorist attack if a Democrat is elected in 2008. The former New York mayor did not back down.

Illinois Sen. Barack Obama (news, bio, voting record) said Giuliani, who was in office on Sept. 11, 2001, should not be making the terrorist threat into "the punchline of another political attack.

I agree with Obama entirely with this.  Giuliani has been riding his whole campaign on the 9/11 tragedy, and it's becoming pretty aggravating.  Getting votes by creating fear is not how to run a good campaign.  Frankly, if this is what he's going to be doing throughout his campaign, he shouldn't be running for President.  Better to bow out as some one who stepped up to the plate in NYC in a dark time, than as a man who used that event to try to boost votes.  Bad form.

I don't like Giuliani, but in this case, he's 100% right. In his eight years, Clinton could have done a hell of a lot to prevent 9/11 from happening. He didn't. IMO, he shares a good chunk of the blame in it happening.

View PostGodeskian, on Apr 25 2007, 03:42 PM, said:

Given that the last major terrorist attack on US soil happened during a Republican presidents tenure, i'm not sure how he thinks a Democrat being elected will cause another major attack.

Except that the attack happened around the nine month mark of him taking over, IIRC. If not, then he was only in office for a year. That's not a long time in terms of having your own foriegn policy in effect. We were still seeing the effects of Clinton's term during this time.

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#6 Godeskian

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 02:19 AM

View PostRobL, on Apr 26 2007, 07:14 AM, said:

Except that the attack happened around the nine month mark of him taking over, IIRC. If not, then he was only in office for a year. That's not a long time in terms of having your own foriegn policy in effect. We were still seeing the effects of Clinton's term during this time.

Ah yes, deny responsibility for the sitting president's actions by blaming his predecessor. Never heard that one before.  :rolleyes:

As for Guiliani, it's still negative campaigning. I hope that the American electorate ignores him for a Republican who actually has a message.

Edited by Godeskian, 26 April 2007 - 02:20 AM.

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#7 Captain Jack

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 02:27 AM

View PostGodeskian, on Apr 26 2007, 12:19 AM, said:

View PostRobL, on Apr 26 2007, 07:14 AM, said:

Except that the attack happened around the nine month mark of him taking over, IIRC. If not, then he was only in office for a year. That's not a long time in terms of having your own foriegn policy in effect. We were still seeing the effects of Clinton's term during this time.

Ah yes, deny responsibility for the sitting president's actions by blaming his predecessor. Never heard that one before.  :rolleyes:

I don't know, really.  I think this would have happened one way or another.  In retrospect, it seems like it was inevitable that an attempt to destroy the Towers would be tried again.  Perhaps that was the point McCain was trying to make in his speach yesterday.  He blamed Giuliani for not making NYC ready for a situation like 9/11.  Maybe he did, maybe he didn't.  I really don't know.  My gut tells me he didn't.

And, yes, Bush was still a newly elected President then, and I can't really blame him for 9/11 either.  I think America was pretty much blind-sided on that one.  However, I don't think Bush acted as well as he should have while it was happening.  But then, this isn't really about Bush, this is about Giuliani and his statement claiming that he basically is the only right candidate who can save us in a time of Terror.  This to me, is just B.S., which is why I really don't like the guy.  I don't like how he is campaigning.

Quote

As for Guiliani, it's still negative campaigning. I hope that the American electorate ignores him for a Republican who actually has a message.

Exactly.  Thank you, thank you, thank you.
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#8 Zwolf

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 09:24 AM

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In his eight years, Clinton could have done a hell of a lot to prevent 9/11 from happening. He didn't. IMO, he shares a good chunk of the blame in it happening.

I've posted on this before, but it seems a good time to repeat it.  I'm not a major fan of Clinton personally, and it's obvious that every president should have done more to stop terrorism, since it happened, but... Clinton's not the one with the weak record on terror.  In fact, when he tried to pass stronger measures against it, Republicans blocked him.  And a lot of what he did have in place - the Predator drones tracking Bin Laden in Afghanistan, Able Danger, etc. - the Bush administration undid before 9-11, just to show off how "un-Clinton" they could be.

And, if we wanna look at track records of pre-Bush II presidents as a lead-up...

April 18, 1983 - a delivery van full of 400 pounds of explosives deployed on the U.S. embassy in Beirut. No retaliation from Reagan.

Sept. 1, 1983: Boeing 747 hit by a Soviet SU-15. No retaliation from Reagan.

Oct. 23, 1983: 241 U.S. servicemen blown up by a truck bomber. Reagan withdrew from Lebanon, no retaliation.

Oct. 7, 1985, Palestine Liberation Front hijacks the Achille Lauro. Foreign governments handled it, and Reagan does nothing to the PLO, who the incident is tied to.

April 6, 1986 - La Belle disco bombing in West Berlin, tied to Lybia. Reagan finally retaliates on a limited scale, killing Quaddafi's 15-month old daughter. Quaddafi himself... still around!

April 2, 1986 - TWA flight 840, bombed. No retaliation from the gipper.

1988 - Pan Am 103 blown up. Lybia won't hand over the suspects, Bush Sr. shrugs it off.

Feb. 26, 1993 - World Trade Center bombing. Clinton got the perpetrators and starts programs to nab Osama Bin Laden, once his connection to it is determined.

April 19, 1995 - Oklahoma City bombing. Tim McVeigh, captured and eventually killed.

August 7, 1998 - U.S. embassies in East Africa bombed by Al Quada. Clinton ordered cruise missle strikes in Sudan and Afghanistan. 8 of the conspirators dead or captured. Hunt for Bin Laden intensified, via Predator drones, Able Danger program, and other devices later discontinued by the Bush administration.

1999, Ahmed Ressam arrested, and a plot to bomb LAX foiled, as well as 3 other attacks slated.

Oct 12, 2000 - U.S.S. Cole attacked. This was a month before elections, and Clinton didn't have time to get much started since he was on his way out and didn't want to hand a huge mess over to whoever would be following him... but, he did get the intell in place. Bush came into office... and did nothing about it for 8 months, even ignoring daily briefings that said Bin Laden was determined to attack inside the U.S.

Following that up with Bush mis-using the intelligence we had in place, ignoring real intell to cherry-pick out items that would support the plan he'd already decided upon, to lead us into a real mess.

Clinton's a slimy human being, yep, but he's not the weak link.

Cheers,

Zwolf
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#9 D'Monix

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 10:18 AM

View PostZwolf, on Apr 26 2007, 02:24 PM, said:

April 19, 1995 - Oklahoma City bombing. Tim McVeigh, captured and eventually killed.

Scratch that one off your list, McVeigh was captured because of a traffic stop by an OHP state trooper, they came for him later when investigators made the connection, Billy boy had zip to do with that one.



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