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Election 2008 Debate Democrats

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#1 Spectacles

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 03:58 PM

The Dems are going first with all candidates debating tonight on MSNBC, 7 ET. Republicans start debating one another next week.

http://www.baltimore...world-headlines

So Political Survivor begins.

:look:
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#2 Cait

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 04:04 PM

You know, I never quite realized how much we reflect each other's political interests.  I was just going to post something on the debate tongiht.  Thanks for doing it.

Yep!!!  

Political Survivor begins tongiht.  

Who'll be voted off first?

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#3 Cait

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 04:55 PM

View PostSpectacles, on Apr 26 2007, 02:26 PM, said:

Chris Dodd? I only say that because I keep forgetting he's running. And I bet everyone other than Chris Dodd and Mrs. Dodd forget  it, too.

:blush:

I think it will be Kucinich or Dodd.  I'm hoping Richardson and Biden can stay in it for a while.  The longer the field stays crowded the more likely we'll get some real debate and actual stated positions.

I have absolutely no clue who will be voted off in the GOP side.  One can only hope it is Guiliani.  :p

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#4 Captain Jack

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 05:39 PM

EDWARDS!!!

:cool:

Yes, I like him the most!!!
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#5 Spectacles

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 05:56 PM

^  :D

I like Edwards, too, Spidey. But I'm rooting for Obama.  :love:
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#6 Captain Jack

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 05:58 PM

View PostSpectacles, on Apr 26 2007, 03:56 PM, said:

^  :D

I like Edwards, too, Spidey. But I'm rooting for Obama.  :love:

That's cool.  We're all entitled to our favorites even though Edwards is better.  :p  Just kidding on the Edwards being better than Obama part. :)
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689 Reasons to Defeat Barack Obama in 2012:

https://www.national...at-barack-obama

#7 Cait

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 06:03 PM

Sometimes I just love Joe Scarborough.  He is my favorite Conservative.  Read this and have a good laugh.

Quote

MSNBC understands that jamming so many candidates on stage will present great logistical issues. Fortunately, we have been forward-thinking enough to establish ground rules to expedite the process:

*The candidates will not be allowed to deliver an opening or closing statement.

*Candidates may introduce themselves but may only use their first or last name.

*At Pat Buchanan’s request, Mr. Obama will be permitted use his middle name during introductions.

*When discussing George Bush, candidates are encouraged to use sign language to expedite their viewpoints. One finger supports censure, two fingers endorse impeachment, and three fingers embrace the Alec Baldwin position (pronounced before a shocked Conan audience) of dragging all Republicans from their homes and stoning them “until they die.”

*Joe Biden will be surrounded by stagehands with stun guns at all times. Any filibuster attempts will be met with appropriate force.

*Any candidate who can name the guy on stage from Alaska without first reading his name tag will be award an addition 14 seconds.

*No candidate answer can be longer than the average length of a question asked on Scarborough Country.

*In post-game analysis, Chris Matthews will not be allowed to answer his own questions before giving candidates a shot first.

Edited by Cait, 26 April 2007 - 06:03 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#8 SparkyCola

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 07:38 PM

I went off Hilary the moment she started blaming video games for violence. Not just because of that single issue, but because I believe it presents a flawed logic in thought, and misguided approach to an otherwise serious issue. I don't like Giuliani at all, John Edwards doesn't look too bad, but on comparison I've decided that I'm rooting Obama.

Frankly, anyone will be better than Bush. Just to check, he actually *can't* be re-elected for a third time can he? :unsure:

Sparky

Edited by SparkyCola, 26 April 2007 - 07:39 PM.

Able to entertain a thought without taking it home to meet the parents

#9 QueenTiye

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 07:57 PM

View PostSparkyCola, on Apr 26 2007, 08:38 PM, said:

Just to check, he actually *can't* be re-elected for a third time can he? :unsure:

Sparky

Nope.

Een Draght Mackt Maght


#10 Spectacles

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 08:04 PM

Well, I was surprised. I'm an Obama fan and I'm not crazy about Hillary, but I was SO impressed by her responses. I did not expect to respond to her so favorably.  :blink:  

And Spidey, Edwards was damned good, too. In fact, I think he was more focused in his answers than my guy, who seemed nervous early on.

But most did pretty well, really. I think that maybe after six years of Bush, they all sound like great orators.

And that crazy ol' coot, Gravel, was a trip. He reminds me of a guy I used to work with who was perpetually outraged.  :D  And he made Kucinich look conservative.  :crazy:


Quote

Scarborough: *At Pat Buchanan’s request, Mr. Obama will be permitted use his middle name during introductions

:D
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#11 Cait

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 08:17 PM

OK, I came to the debate late [about 15 minutes, so I have no comments on the candidates at the beginning.  I'm also going to use the now famous szhismine approach to report the debate.  [LOL] I took notes as it went on, but now I'm not so sure if they will be any too clear.  LOL

Edwards:  Good understanding of how money is moved in the economy in his answer about hedge funds.

Clinton: [on her negative image] She didn't really answer the question, but then there isn't much of an answer except for her to go on being her and getting her message out there.  It's not like she can change anyone's mind any other way.

Richardson: [on being the last to call for Gonzales' resignation]  He admitted he had a bias because Gonzales is Hispanic.  He answered the question well, and was quite candid.

Dodd: [on his acceptance of lobbyist money]  He is practical about what it takes to get elected. Not apologetic or defensive.  He says we should have campaign reform, but until then...

Kucinich: [on his war stance] First candidate to 'call out' the other Senators on their vote on the war.  He's a little out there. on the Left.  Course he doesn't pretend to be a centrist, so that is a plus for honesty.

Biden: [on 'can he promise he can do something about his big mouth'  OK this got the biggest laugh of the evening, when he answered just "Yes" and then shut up.  I laughed out loud it was so damn cute and funny and oh so Biden.

Gravel: [I forget what the questions was because this guy is really out there on the fringes.  Maybe it is all that 6 months of daytime and 6 months of night up in Alaska.  He is not officially running and I can't for the life of me figure out why he was there... maybe it was to make the other guys look sane and moderate.]

On Abortion: OK as expected, they are all Pro-choice, but Biden really shined in his answer.  He understands the underlying concept of "Right to privacy", and I think that was good because it takes it out of the polarizing "abortion" issue and puts it into the "privacy" arena, which in the end is a more unifying concept for the country.   I gave this question to Biden.  He seemed to distinguish himself in this area

It then branched out into Court appointees, and Dodd made some good points.  [Dodd was [imho] the big surprise of the evening BTW.]

Gun Control and V-Tech:  They all pretty much said the same thing, although Richardson is supposedly the poster boy for the NRA in both Party's.  Since I'm not for gun control, I think it's good that he got asked that question.  Not all Dems are for gun control and if we're going to catch some of the conservative Dems and moderate Repubs this might be an issue that tips the scale.

Health Care & Tax increases:

Only Edwards admitted that there'd probably have to be a tax increase, but they all seemed to think that money could be saved in monitoring health costs.  [I'd have to agree.  If we don't want to spend more money, we have to make the money we have work better for us.]  So controlling costs is  a fine fine fine idea

Obama suggested a universal health care much like the fund that Congress has.  

Clinton of course had the most to say because she is the expert on what it would take and how much opposition there is.  She made points on this issue IMHO.

Richardson promised no new taxes, no new bureaucracy, and something else, I missed it.  He talks a lot too.

Immigration:

Clinton danced around  it, but she would offer some kind of program that would bring these immigrants into citizenship.  She also stressed the need to control the boarders

Say, I'm really warming up to Dodd.

Edwards gave a good answer, [or according to my notes he did] but for the life of me I can't remember what it actually was. [ ;) ]

Non Iraq foreign policy:

All of them basically want to strengthen the current alliances, restore US good will, etc etc...

In my opinion Edwards won that question when explaining the problems with present day Russia as well as the ones we ALL know about.  He seemed to be more familiar with more than the big three enemies etc.

Battling the perceptions that Dems are weak on Defense:

Dodd won this question.  Damn he is impressive in many ways.  He certainly got the best deal on this debate tonight.  He was unknown really, and really was up there with the first tier in his answers, his composure, and his deliberate and well thought out answers.

[I made a note here, that "they all stayed very focused [except for Kucinich and Gravel] and did not fight with each other or attack the positions of each other.  What a refreshing change.  I wish it could continue.]

If another 9/11 happened what would  they do:

OK, I give this round to Clinton. I'm here to tell you, she is not weak on defense.  Not that the others were, but they hedged their answers, she just broke out of the pack with her answer.  She would respond swiftly and attack anyone who attacked us.

Dodd on civil unions:  He gave one of the most perceptive answers.  He said each of us should ask what we would want for our own children.  He is for Civil Unions.

Biden on Climate change: "He's for a sort of "Manhattan Project " on alternative energy etc.  Which isn't a bad idea.  We certainly need the research and development.

Richardson on normalizing relations with Cuba:  He's do it in preparation for a post Castro Cuba, which is also a good idea.  The old man can't live forever, and Cuba will be up for grabs unless we plan how to handle it.

Gravel on Nuclear energy: He's just a nut.  He's the guy in the dictionary next to "Radical fringe liberal"..

That's it.  I have to say I was very impressed.  I only eliminated two that I outright would NOT vote for.  Kucinich and Gravel.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#12 Cait

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 08:20 PM

View PostSpectacles, on Apr 26 2007, 06:04 PM, said:

I'm not crazy about Hillary, but I was SO impressed by her responses. I did not expect to respond to her so favorably.  :blink:

I have to agree here.  I wasn't expecting to like her [I actually don't very much] but she really impressed me with a few of her responses.  I mean REALLY impressed me.  

Now I'm so confused.  I was almost settled on Edwards [but only because Richardson and Biden won't last to the end]

What to do.  What to do.  Thank goodness there is a lot of time to watch these guys.  Now I'm kinda glad it is a long campaign.

Next week the Republican Candidates.  That should be fun.  :rolleyes:

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#13 Spectacles

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 08:25 PM

^ Great review, Cait.

Yep, Dodd surprised me, too. And Biden, too,  for that matter.

Quote

Gravel on Nuclear energy: He's just a nut. He's the guy in the dictionary next to "Radical fringe liberal"..

:D  He's like a liberal, Alaskan Zell Miller. They'd better frisk him before the next debate.
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#14 Spectacles

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 08:31 PM

By the way,

Quote

Cait: I only eliminated two that I outright would NOT vote for. Kucinich and Gravel.

Same here. And I completely cracked up at the end when Obama and Biden tore into them over the need to use force on occasion, especially when Biden started smacking them for their "happy talk."
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#15 GiGi

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 08:33 PM

^ Thank you Cait for writing that up, I wasn't able to watch and that is a good review!
"Life is as dear to a mute creature as it is to man. Just as one wants happiness and fears pain, just as one wants to live and not die, so do all creatures." -- HH The Dalai Lama

#16 Cait

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 08:34 PM

View PostSpectacles, on Apr 26 2007, 06:31 PM, said:

By the way,

Quote

Cait: I only eliminated two that I outright would NOT vote for. Kucinich and Gravel.

Same here. And I completely cracked up at the end when Obama and Biden tore into them over the need to use force on occasion, especially when Biden started smacking them for their "happy talk."


I agree.  I liked that comment too.  The happy happy hippie liberals.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#17 Cait

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 08:36 PM

View PostGiGi, on Apr 26 2007, 06:33 PM, said:

^ Thank you Cait for writing that up, I wasn't able to watch and that is a good review!

Oh, thanks hon.  

Actually thank szhismine too, because she inspired me with her "Lost" stream of consciousness reviews.   :D

Edited by Cait, 26 April 2007 - 08:36 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#18 Captain Jack

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 09:34 PM

View PostQueenTiye, on Apr 26 2007, 05:57 PM, said:

View PostSparkyCola, on Apr 26 2007, 08:38 PM, said:

Just to check, he actually *can't* be re-elected for a third time can he? :unsure:

Sparky

Nope.

Actually, the correct answer would be HELLLLL NO! ;)

I liked my boy Edwards the most out of all of them.  I think he will be an excellent President.
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689 Reasons to Defeat Barack Obama in 2012:

https://www.national...at-barack-obama

#19 Captain Jack

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 09:46 PM

^Can you folks say who said that when you quote someone?  I get confused as to who's quoting who.  Thanks.
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689 Reasons to Defeat Barack Obama in 2012:

https://www.national...at-barack-obama

#20 Lin731

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 10:21 PM

Thank you for the details on the debate Cait, I missed it unfortunately. If you find that they're gonna run a repeat, could ya post a heads up, I really wanted to see it and I'm hoping they might run it again.

Edited by Lin731, 26 April 2007 - 10:22 PM.

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