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Tenet's turn to talk

George Tenet Ex-CIA Chief At the Center of the Storm Book 2007 Bush Administration

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#21 DWF

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Posted 29 April 2007 - 01:03 PM

View PostG1223, on Apr 29 2007, 01:57 PM, said:

The fact is that we do not know when the CIA got any new informnation. You must remember that Tenet was the CIA director duruing the Clinton Administration. And during his time with the Clinton's he was one of the leaders in the administration along with Sec. State Albright who told us in 1998 about the WMD which we now know are incorrect. They went to UN with this same information and NO SINGLE NATION OR GOVERNMENT AGENCY said the info was incorrect.

Yet we were lied to? That maybe true. But when were we lied to.

So the Government is going to openly say that the CIA got it wrong?  :blink:
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#22 G1223

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Posted 29 April 2007 - 01:10 PM

And the State department. Why not? Oh wiat two of the shining stars in the Clinton Administration would be tarnished if they came out with the truth. And since Mrs. Clinton is the front runner for the DNC I can bet that will not happen. So to cover the error we will say Bush Lied. When it could be pointed out that Clinton lied as well.... Wait Clinton lied about things other than who he had sex with.  There now the statement would be accurate.
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#23 Spectacles

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Posted 29 April 2007 - 01:15 PM

Here's a piece on Tenet's interview on 60 Minutes, airing tonight:

http://www.cbsnews.c...in2728375.shtml
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#24 DWF

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Posted 29 April 2007 - 01:20 PM

View PostG1223, on Apr 29 2007, 02:10 PM, said:

And the State department. Why not? Oh wiat two of the shining stars in the Clinton Administration would be tarnished if they came out with the truth. And since Mrs. Clinton is the front runner for the DNC I can bet that will not happen. So to cover the error we will say Bush Lied. When it could be pointed out that Clinton lied as well.... Wait Clinton lied about things other than who he had sex with.  There now the statement would be accurate.

Yeah but wasn't it Tenet who said that nuclear WMDs in Iraq was a "Slam Dunk"?  ;)
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#25 Spectacles

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Posted 29 April 2007 - 01:35 PM

How did we get the intelligence wrong? For one thing, we had no weapons inspectors in Iraq from Fall 1998 until Fall 2002. Since the Gulf War we had also gathered intelligence from members of the Iraqi National Congress--all Iraqi exisles, many of whom had not been inside Iraq in dozens of years. They'd produce defectors like Curve Ball who'd tell fantastic stories, many of which landed on the Chinese menu that Cheney and the White House presented to Powell before his U.N. speech. With no inspections on the ground in Iraq, we were flying in the dark with a host of INC-provided defectors guiding us and feeding a bunch of baloney, much of which WAS discounted by the CIA.

One of the big reasons that Tenet and Powell ended up crossing out a lot of the claims the White House wanted Powell to make about Iraqi WMD is that a lot of it came from sources like Curve Ball, who the CIA had decided--correctly--was unreliable back in the mid-90s. But Cheney's little intel operation within the Pentagon ignored the CIA's warnings about Curveball (and the obviously forged Niger-Saddam claims, and a host of other things) because they made for such good war cheerleading--mobile biological weapons labs, etc.

Interesting story on this here:

http://www.msnbc.msn.../site/newsweek/

Quote

The e-mail, written by a senior CIA official, addressed a debate that the agency's analysts were having about Curveball, an erratic Iraqi emigre who claimed to have seen Saddam's supposed mobile biological-weapons labs. The CIA had evidence that Curveball was a shameless fabricator months before Secretary of State Colin Powell cited the Iraqi's reports before the United Nations. But in the Feb. 4, 2003, e-mail—written a day before Powell's U.N. appearance—the senior CIA official sharply rebuked one of those skeptical analysts. "Keep in mind the fact that this war's going to happen regardless of what Curve Ball said or didn't say and that the Powers That Be probably aren't terribly interested in whether Curve Ball knows what he's talking about," the CIA official wrote.

And the investigations are ongoing about how the administration manipulated intelligence, often ignoring the warnings from the CIA and other agencies that they were making assertions that were possibly untrue. This will come out one day.

Did Clinton screw up? Sure. Did Clinton manipulate intelligence to get us into a quagmire in Iraq? No.
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#26 Spectacles

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Posted 29 April 2007 - 01:42 PM

Actually, the Curveball controversy is even more of a mess than I thought. Tenet claimed no one told him that Curveball was unreliable!?!

http://www.commondre...s05/0402-01.htm

Lord, whatta bunch of Keystone Kops.

:blink:

No wonder we're in such a helluva mess. The country's been run by a bunch of finger-pointing, rear-end covering bureaucrats for far too long....

*sigh*
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#27 Spectacles

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Posted 29 April 2007 - 06:02 PM

Oops!

A quick reminder bump to anyone in the States who might be interested. Tenet is about to be on 60 Minutes--right now.
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#28 Spectacles

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Posted 29 April 2007 - 07:00 PM

Well, I watched his interview. Pretty overwrought, blustery guy.  :blink:
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#29 Cait

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Posted 29 April 2007 - 07:05 PM

You East Coast people are such teases.  You're gonna make me wait two more hours to see it now aren't you.   :p

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#30 Spectacles

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Posted 29 April 2007 - 07:35 PM

I'm warnin' ya--better have a beer on ice or a tranquilizer set out by a glass of water for the end of it. Tenet is damned near hysterical. He's belligerently on the offensive through the whole thing. And I got the impression that if the Bush Administration had just given him his medal and not made a big deal about the "slam dunk" thing, he'd be a lot less overwrought. Yeah, he's upset about 9/11 and I'm sure that beneath the bluster he's a lot more wracked with self-doubt than he lets on--or maybe not. I don't know....But he's mightily ticked off that his honor has been besmirched.

I do know that while I was impressed with his respect for the people at the CIA, he came across--to me--as someone who failed them because he is, first and foremost, a bureaucrat. He could only do so much, ya see, because of "the way things work." When he was utterly convinced in the summer of 01 that a massive attack on the United States was in the works, he didn't bring it up directly with the president because that's not how it's done. He was frustrated with Rice's inaction on his alleged urgent request for pre-emptive action in Afghanistan, but he sure didn't rise to the level of Director of the CIA by rocking the boat, so he sat and seethed.

How many of us have seen this kind of institutional dysfunction in our workplaces? And it's nurtured by the very people who rise up through the ranks. It's maddening at work. But it's downright dangerous when the people running the government, especially those responsible for national security, operate this way.

And he's really, really upset that someone turned on him and implied that Bush decided to invade Iraq because of his "slam dunk" remark. He thinks this was terribly unfair because he's someone who did his job and "showed up every day" and helped to cover the right rear ends as much as he could.

So Tenet does much bellowing and finger-pointing and rear-end covering.

Bleah. I know one thing: I ain't buying his book. I wouldn't give George Tenet a buck if I saw him on the street.
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#31 Cait

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Posted 29 April 2007 - 07:51 PM

View PostSpectacles, on Apr 29 2007, 05:35 PM, said:

I'm warnin' ya--better have a beer on ice or a tranquilizer set out by a glass of water for the end of it.

Oh dear.  That bad huh!    :wacko:

Actually, I'm hoping that eventually all the rats get angry because they got blamed for what they actually did.  How many have we seen now.  Tenet, Libby, Sampson, Brown, and there will be more.  All of them thrown under the bus when the inability of the Executive Branch to do *anything* right saw the light of day.  All thrown under the buss by their co-conspirators.  I hate to say it, [well no I don't] there is a certain amount of satisfaction in watching rats jump a sinking ship.  If it weren't such a national tragedy in life and treasure, I'd be able to do a jig [with castanets].  ;)

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#32 Cait

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Posted 29 April 2007 - 10:18 PM

OK...

Well, you were right Specs.  He is an angry man.  And I also agree, he is angry at being thrown under the bus more than anything.  He is angry, and he's going to expose all of them right along with his own malfeasance.  

I guess it boils down to.. even though he is angry and trying to make a buck, does he sound credible?  Do you believe him?

If this had come out two or three years ago, maybe I wouldn't. Maybe I'd get swept away into the anger and think "dissatisfied ex-employee, who blames his bosses for his own crimes" and just file it away.

But that would have been before the Plame outing.  Which now looks exactly like what some of us thought it looked like.  An attempt to discredit Wilson's Niger report on "yellow cake" and Iraq.  But, now I think it was more than that.  It was a deflection to take the news in another direction--away from the justification for invading Iraq.

I never did understand why the "16 words" were such a big deal to the Left.  I mean sure it was not true, but you know--Politicians exaggerate all the time.  So what; he mis-spoke.  And yeah, yeah, it was really bad to out a CIA agent--criminal even, but what was the motive?  Yes, it put other CIA resources in danger, and undermined the entire department, but what did it really have to do with Wilson, other than some revenge.  I could never buy into the 'revenge' theory.  It was just too thin for such drastic action.

It's like Watergate in many ways.  And I don't say that because it was another President's undoing.  I don't even say it because it was another cover up.  I say it because until you see the motives you don't understand the crime or the actions of people.

During Watergate, it didn't' make sense to bail out those 'plumbers' for just breaking into the Watergate.  I mean it would have been best to just let them go through the system and then take care of it on the back end.  

I remember that scene in "All the President's Men" where the plumbers are giving their professions.  Whispering "CIA" and I thought, "WTF"??? You mean they just offered up who they were?  No cover story?

No one could understand why the CIA would break into the Watergate.  Which is why the story didn't take off right away.  It wasn't until it was reported that the were removing "bugs" from the Watergate that all the pieces began to 'fit'.  Then it made some sense.  Then you could understand why they'd want to cover it up.  I mean, tampering with an election/campaign to that degree would have sank the '72 election, and I am sure there were people who believed that, at any cost, McGovern *had* to be kept out of the WH.  There are always a few true believers who will do anything.

Tenet reminded me of a True Believer.  His fury seemed real.  When he was talking about torture, he knew what he had done, what he had authorized, and didn't blink.  That's a true believer.  [not that what he believes is what any of us believe mind you]

So the rest of his story [while creatively re-told for drama and sensation] is probably true, because it makes all the other things we know--fall into place.  It makes sense because Wilson needed to be shut up for more than 'personal revenge'.  Picking away at the reasons for the war might lead to more lies.  Might lead to more exaggeration.  Might lead to 9/11.  [and no I am not a conspiracy theorist, but even the hint of missing some Intel on 9/11 could sink the GOP in the 04 election.]

So, even though I won't be buying his book either, and I hope they take his Medal of Freedom away form him, he rang true.  Regardless of what Rice, Cheney, Bush et. al, may have done, he was there and knew what this job was.  He's culpable right along with the rest.  I'm glad he spoke out, but I won't be handing him any congratulations for finally finding his spine.  There are 3000+ families out there in American who have lost a child.  Go tell that tale of woe to them.  There are countless Iraqis who are orphaned or have lost children.  Tell it to them.  Watergate, while a cover-up that brought down a complete Administration was horrible, no one died that night at the Watergate.  [Well, re-electing Nixon caused more death in Viet Nam, but work with me here :)]

And while we debate who is responsible for all the inaccurate Intel--people die.

We live in interesting times, and  I don't care where the wheel stops, and who has to pay the price for his or her decisions.  I hope the wheel keeps on spinning and they all fall down.

Edited by Cait, 29 April 2007 - 10:19 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#33 Spectacles

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Posted 30 April 2007 - 08:10 AM

Quote

Cait: He's culpable right along with the rest. I'm glad he spoke out, but I won't be handing him any congratulations for finally finding his spine.

Yep. And I wonder how much backbone he's finally found, really. So much of his rant isn't about what *he* did wrong but about what Condi and Cheney and others did wrong. It just infuriates me that he sat there and said, in effect, "well, gee whiz, before 9/11 I told Condi we needed to take immediate pre-emptive action in Afghanistan, but she just sat on it." When asked the next obvious question--well then why didn't you take it directly to the President, who you briefed every day?--Tenet says that's just not how it's done. The president isn't the "action person" or something. A good bureaucrat follows the established reporting order.

Now, if it is true, Tenet tells Rice in Summer 01 that we're in danger, that Al Qaeda is planning to strike the U.S. Tenet recommends pre-emptive action in Afghanistan. Rice punts and gives this to an under-secretary, who apparently also punts and nothing happens. Meanwhile, Tenet briefs Bush daily, but sits there with his lips zipped, thinking, "Boy howdy! I sure hope Condi starts pushing to get the authorities to take action against Al Qaeda and disrupt their plan to attack us and cause 'massive casualities.'"

I mean, c'mon. If Tenet stuck slavishly to the bureaucratic reporting structure and didn't bring this up directly with the President himself, he's the quintessential bureaucratic dolt. He's a person whose judgment is so severely flawed that he ought to be committed for being a danger possibly to himself and demonstrably to others. It is absolutely inconceivable that he pressed this matter with Rice but not with Bush.

Why present it this way? Is he still covering for Bush while trying to make it look as though Tenet really did try to get people's attention pre 9/11 but couldn't get anyone to listen? His tale makes Condi look inept, but what about Tenet himself? How "ept" was he if he didn't discuss this urgent threat with the president himself because he had to honor the reporting structure?

It reminds me of that hilarious and true story of my college's evacuation plan. An administrator designs a baroque phone tree. In it, the dean gets a call notifying her that we have to evacuate the building. The dean is to tell ONE of her secretaries, but the other secretary is supposed to wait for a call from someone else on the phone tree. When the dean asked the person who devised the plan, "What are we supposed to say to _____ when we grab our things and rush out the door?" "Tell her to expect an important phone call."

Tenet wants us to believe that he behaved as stupidly and slavishly as the college administrator would have had the dean act. Tenet wants us to believe that he didn't press this issue of preventing an imminent threat with the President of the United States because the bureaucratic ball was in the National Security Advisor's court. So he sat there daily, never bringing it up with the President, hoping against hope that Condi and her people would move on this. If this outlandish story is true, it's appalling. It's appalling that Tenet didn't press the matter when he was action was slow in coming. It's appalling that the NSA didn't do anything. It's appalling that despite this sort of dangerous conformity to the reporting structure, Bush awards Tenet the Medal of Freedom.
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#34 Cait

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Posted 06 May 2007 - 01:30 PM

I just watched Tenet on "Meet the Press", and I've never seen such a 180 in my life.  

First, someone must have him on Prozac or something,  because he comes across cool as a cucumber.  Nothing like his interview on "60 Minutes" or interviews just after the release of the book.  He was visibly angry then with Cheney and others from his time as Director.  You could see it.  Now, he is just "reporting the facts" as he interpreted the intelligence.  I admit I liked him better when he exhibited more control, but everything he said contradicted his assertions in earlier interviews.  Or better put, he spun it all differently.  He spun it really well.

Now, everything isn't so sinister.  They all believed the intelligence.  "Should they have done better?" he asks, "yes, but all we can do now is try to do better".

Gone are all references to any 'cooking' of the books regarding the war.  Gone is any criticism of the Administration.  Gone in fact is the entire premise that he should have said something before now. [How convenient]

Russert was visibly thrown by Tenet's answers.  It looked to me to be a clean up, not just to save the Administration any criticism, but to save his own a$$.  If they all truly believed it, then Tenet had no responsibility to speak out [back then], and he can keep his medal of freedom and the $$ from the sale of the book.  I've seen "self-serving" before, and Tenet lands himself in the top 10 "most self-serving public servants".

His book isn't a tell all of a corrupt Administration, it is an historical record so we can all learn and do better next time.

I'm going to hurl.  Politicians.  There is probably a special place in hell for ALL politicians.

Edited by Cait, 06 May 2007 - 01:31 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#35 offworlder

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Posted 06 May 2007 - 02:21 PM

^ hhmm ~ maybe I'll just skip his : and get from the library Franks' tome and the two from Clark, and then there Must be some spin/reputation/legacy thing from Bremer coming out too ~ or should I just keep seeing Fareed's Sunday show like today and forget all those spin books?
"(Do you read what they say online?) I check out all these scandalous rumours about me and Elijah Wood having beautiful sex with each other ... (are they true?) About Elijah and me being boyfriend and boyfriend? Absolutely true. We've been together for about nine years. I wooed him. No I just like a lot of stuff - I like that someone says one thing and it becomes fact. It's kind of fun." --Dominic Monaghan in a phone interview with Newsweek while buying DVDs at the store. :D

#36 offworlder

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    pls don't kick offworlders, we can find a place too

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Posted 06 May 2007 - 03:11 PM

now this! :
http://www.thestar.c.../article/195056
... is the book I'll read on the subject (The Looming Tower: al Qaeda ... )
"(Do you read what they say online?) I check out all these scandalous rumours about me and Elijah Wood having beautiful sex with each other ... (are they true?) About Elijah and me being boyfriend and boyfriend? Absolutely true. We've been together for about nine years. I wooed him. No I just like a lot of stuff - I like that someone says one thing and it becomes fact. It's kind of fun." --Dominic Monaghan in a phone interview with Newsweek while buying DVDs at the store. :D

#37 Spectacles

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Posted 08 May 2007 - 12:17 PM

Former FBI agent Coleen Rowley has a thing or two to say to Tenet:

http://www.huffingto...el_b_47897.html

Quote

Yesterday on Meet the Press you told Tim Russert that there was no "texture" to the pre 9-11 threat reporting despite the "system blinking red" and despite your "hair (being) on fire" which resulted in your emergency meeting with Condoleeza Rice in mid July and the CIA's Presidential Daily Brief given to President George W. Bush on August 6, 2001 entitled, "Bin Ladin Determined To Strike in US." Then, even more disingenuously, you added that "everything went silent" in August 2001.

How could you forget, former DCI Tenet, that on August 23, 2001, you were briefed about the Moussaoui case in a power point briefing titled, "Islamic Extremist Learns to Fly." You were told among other things: that Moussaoui wanted to learn to fly a 747, paid for his training in cash, was interested to learn the doors do not open in flight, and wanted to fly a simulated flight from London to New York. You were also told that the FBI had arrested Moussaoui because of a visa overstay and that the CIA was working the case with the FBI. One of the documents given to you even had Bin Laden's picture on it! And the CIA held successive briefings about Moussaoui: August 27th, 2001, with the deputy director of operations; August 28th, 2001, with the executive director of the CIA; August 30, 2001 with the director of Central Intelligence; September 4th, with the executive director of the CIA; and September 10th, with the deputy director of operations (see Moussaoui defense exhibits 660, 670, 671,672,673, and 674). So how can you say "everything went silent" in August?!

That bolded bit, by the way, really contradicts Condi's story that no one could conceive of a plot like 9/11 unfolding against targets in the U.S.. Other things have contradicted her story also, but this is the first time I'd heard of this.
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#38 Spectacles

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Posted 14 May 2007 - 03:56 PM

A new development:

http://thinkprogress...14/tenet-niger/

Quote

Tenet Agrees To Cooperate With Congressional Investigation Into Niger Fraud

Former CIA Director George Tenet has agreed to cooperate with a House investigation into the White House’s fraudulent pre-war claim that Iraq had sought uranium from Niger for a nuclear weapon. That assertion — the infamous “16 words” in President Bush’s 2003 State of the Union address — was a critical part of administration’s case for war.

In a new statement, House Oversight and Government Reform Committee Chairman Henry Waxman (D-CA) announced that Tenet will provide a deposition on the issue and testify before the committee on June 19:

    Today Chairman Henry A. Waxman announced that the Oversight Committee will postpone the hearing with Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice from May 15, 2007, to June 19, 2007. The hearing is being postponed to allow former CIA Director George Tenet to testify with Secretary Rice and to accommodate Secretary Rice’s travel schedule.

    Mr. Tenet has agreed to cooperate with the Committee’s inquiry into whether the White House overstated Iraq’s efforts to obtain uranium from Africa and its nuclear threat in making the case for war. Mr. Tenet has agreed to provide a deposition to the Committee prior to the hearing.

Should be interesting....
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman



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