Jump to content


Getting an "Insecure Connection" warning for Exisle? No worry

Details in this thread

give up on abortion, the gay thing, even far right gop?

Politics Christian Right Evangelicals Republicans Social Issues 2007

  • Please log in to reply
51 replies to this topic

#41 Zwolf

Zwolf
  • Islander
  • 3,683 posts

Posted 08 May 2007 - 08:18 AM

Quote

The only really noteworthy difference is, Christians are far less likely to determine everyone else is simply stupider than they are.

Sure about that?  'Cuz it's in their doctrine...

Quote

Fools say in their hearts, "There is no God."

Psalm 14:1.

I've had that one thrown at me a quite few times by people who don't get the irony of using self-referential scripture as a source...

Anyway, I agree that most Christians aren't walking around calling anybody stupid (nor are most atheists), but it is kinda part of the canon...

Cheers,

Zwolf
"I've moved on and I'm feeling fine
And I'll feel even better
When your life has nothing to do with mine."
-Pittbull, "No Love Lost"

"There are things that I'd like to say
But I'm never talking to you again
There's things I'd like to phrase some way
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'd put you down where you belong
But I'm never talking to you again
I'd show you everywhere you're wrong
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you."
- Husker Du, "Never Talking To You Again"

#42 Spectacles

Spectacles
  • Awaiting Authorisation
  • 9,632 posts

Posted 08 May 2007 - 08:39 AM

Quote

QT....will the far right give up on abortion & gay issues, and included an article that went on to explain what I said - namely that evangelical christianity is not inherently "far right." Rather - there are issues that it is passionate about - and these issues are not all on the right - some are on the left.

Right. I think that what is happening is very healthy, if contentious--both for religion and politics. The far right has spoken for all Christians for far too long in this country, and in doing so, people like Dobson and Robertson and Falwell have kept their focus narrowly on abortion and defeating "the homosexual agenda."
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#43 Godeskian

Godeskian

    You'll be seein' rainbooms

  • Islander
  • 26,839 posts

Posted 08 May 2007 - 10:33 AM

This probably won't make me popular, but I'm a support of Sam Harris in that I feel religion (the concept, not the people who claim it ) in the western world is nearly undebatable on any real level.

Defy Gravity!


The Doctor: The universe is big. It's vast and complicated and ridiculous and sometimes, very rarely, impossible things just happen and we call them miracles... and that's a theory. Nine hundred years and I've never seen one yet, but this will do me.


#44 QueenTiye

QueenTiye

    Behavior is not reproducible over multiple trials.

  • Islander
  • 24,302 posts

Posted 08 May 2007 - 11:03 AM

Pardon my ignorance, but what is the "Sam Harris concept?"  What is meant by "undebateable?"  I may agree with you...

QT

Een Draght Mackt Maght


#45 Godeskian

Godeskian

    You'll be seein' rainbooms

  • Islander
  • 26,839 posts

Posted 08 May 2007 - 11:10 AM

View PostQueenTiye, on May 8 2007, 05:03 PM, said:

Pardon my ignorance, but what is the "Sam Harris concept?"  What is meant by "undebateable?"  I may agree with you...

QT

Sorry, Sam Harris is an Author. From his Wiki

Quote

Harris acknowledges that he is advocating a form of intolerance, but not, as he puts it, the kind of intolerance that led to the Gulag. Rather he is arguing for a conversational intolerance, one in which we examine people's convictions to see if they really scale with the available evidence. He feels that the time has come to demand intellectual honesty right across the board, and confront the prevailing taboos which, in his view, prevent us from openly criticizing religious ideas, beliefs, and practices.[2]

Harris observes that these are essential rules which underpin progress in every other field of knowledge. He notes that we are rarely admonished simply to respect someone's views on, say, physics or history; instead, we both demand reasons and expect evidence. Anyone who fails to substantiate their viewpoint, or resents questioning, is quickly marginalized from the conversation on those topics. So Harris believes that the routine deference accorded to religious ideologies comprises a double standard.

Defy Gravity!


The Doctor: The universe is big. It's vast and complicated and ridiculous and sometimes, very rarely, impossible things just happen and we call them miracles... and that's a theory. Nine hundred years and I've never seen one yet, but this will do me.


#46 Bobby

Bobby

    FKA LiberalBob

  • Islander
  • 4,369 posts

Posted 08 May 2007 - 11:10 AM

^^I'd never heard of it before either:

http://www.samharris.org

Quote

The End of Faith provides a harrowing glimpse of mankind’s willingness to suspend reason in favor of religious beliefs, even when these beliefs inspire the worst of human atrocities. Harris argues that in the presence of weapons of mass destruction, we can no longer expect to survive our religious differences indefinitely. Most controversially, he maintains that “moderation” in religion poses considerable dangers of its own: as the accommodation we have made to religious faith in our society now blinds us to the role that faith plays in perpetuating human conflict.  While warning against the encroachment of organized religion into world politics, Harris draws on insights from neuroscience, philosophy, and Eastern mysticism in an attempt to provide a truly modern foundation for our ethics and our search for spiritual experience.


#47 Godeskian

Godeskian

    You'll be seein' rainbooms

  • Islander
  • 26,839 posts

Posted 08 May 2007 - 11:11 AM

View PostLife for Rent, on May 8 2007, 05:10 PM, said:

^^I'd never heard of it before either:

http://www.samharris.org

Quote

The End of Faith provides a harrowing glimpse of mankind’s willingness to suspend reason in favor of religious beliefs, even when these beliefs inspire the worst of human atrocities. Harris argues that in the presence of weapons of mass destruction, we can no longer expect to survive our religious differences indefinitely. Most controversially, he maintains that “moderation” in religion poses considerable dangers of its own: as the accommodation we have made to religious faith in our society now blinds us to the role that faith plays in perpetuating human conflict.  While warning against the encroachment of organized religion into world politics, Harris draws on insights from neuroscience, philosophy, and Eastern mysticism in an attempt to provide a truly modern foundation for our ethics and our search for spiritual experience.

Not quite what I was thinking off. I've posted the bit I agree with in my previous post.

Defy Gravity!


The Doctor: The universe is big. It's vast and complicated and ridiculous and sometimes, very rarely, impossible things just happen and we call them miracles... and that's a theory. Nine hundred years and I've never seen one yet, but this will do me.


#48 Bobby

Bobby

    FKA LiberalBob

  • Islander
  • 4,369 posts

Posted 08 May 2007 - 11:20 AM

View PostGodeskian, on May 8 2007, 11:11 AM, said:

View PostLife for Rent, on May 8 2007, 05:10 PM, said:

^^I'd never heard of it before either:

http://www.samharris.org

Quote

The End of Faith provides a harrowing glimpse of mankind’s willingness to suspend reason in favor of religious beliefs, even when these beliefs inspire the worst of human atrocities. Harris argues that in the presence of weapons of mass destruction, we can no longer expect to survive our religious differences indefinitely. Most controversially, he maintains that “moderation” in religion poses considerable dangers of its own: as the accommodation we have made to religious faith in our society now blinds us to the role that faith plays in perpetuating human conflict.  While warning against the encroachment of organized religion into world politics, Harris draws on insights from neuroscience, philosophy, and Eastern mysticism in an attempt to provide a truly modern foundation for our ethics and our search for spiritual experience.

Not quite what I was thinking off. I've posted the bit I agree with in my previous post.

We cross posted, I googled after I read your post to see what you were talking about, so when QueenTiye asked, I was just providing her a link to his site.  I agree with some of what he says.

#49 Godeskian

Godeskian

    You'll be seein' rainbooms

  • Islander
  • 26,839 posts

Posted 08 May 2007 - 11:23 AM

As with most people who aren't me, I agree with some of what he says, and disagree with other parts. :)

Defy Gravity!


The Doctor: The universe is big. It's vast and complicated and ridiculous and sometimes, very rarely, impossible things just happen and we call them miracles... and that's a theory. Nine hundred years and I've never seen one yet, but this will do me.


#50 Bobby

Bobby

    FKA LiberalBob

  • Islander
  • 4,369 posts

Posted 08 May 2007 - 11:33 AM

So, what other issues do Christians care about besides the homosexuality, abortion, global warming, adoption?  Saving souls?  Just to get back on topic.

#51 Hambil

Hambil
  • Islander
  • 5,492 posts

Posted 08 May 2007 - 11:36 AM

View Postscherzo, on May 7 2007, 11:26 PM, said:

The only really noteworthy difference is, Christians are far less likely to determine everyone else is simply stupider than they are. I don't think you're a "fool" either, but for all your cumulative knowledge, you're still vastly underestimating a rather sizeable chunk of people.
Because a belief is stupid doesn't mean the people who believe are stupid. And I never said they where. Belief is a powerful desire. Nobody, atheists included - maybe even atheists especially - wants to think that when we die we are gone. We all want to live on. Beyond that, we all want comfort on a day-to-day basis. Someone who makes us feel better, makes us believe that although today, or this week, or this month was bad, tomorrow can be better.

In addition, Religions take people as children, at their most vulnerable and impressionable, and indoctrinate them. That kind of psychological foundation can be very difficult to overcome. It took me 25 years to become an atheist.

So I don't think it's about smart of stupid. I can promise you every Christian has doubts. The intelligence bar on doubting religion is set pretty low. It's more about your personal ability to overcome fear and insecurity and indoctrination. And that has a lot to do with the circumstances of your life, and your personal journey, and little to do with your IQ.

#52 Kosh

Kosh

    Criag Ferguson For President!

  • Islander
  • 11,149 posts

Posted 08 May 2007 - 12:06 PM

View PostChakoteya, on May 7 2007, 04:09 AM, said:

View PostLife for Rent, on May 5 2007, 10:02 PM, said:

It would be nice if they found some other cause besides feeling they have to let us know we're sinners and need them to save us from ourselves.  
Here's hoping.


Apropos of nothing - we are all sinners. All of us. Every single human is less than perfect in some way. Christians have a duty to tell others that following the teachings of Jesus - love, forgiveness, caring for the unfortunate and those less well off than ourselves, etc, etc - is the right way forward to being better people than we are now.
Just like members of other faiths probably have a duty to spread the word too.


That's the wrong way to go about it. My best friend is christian, he doesn't try to drag me into church, he just lives it, and extends an invaite once in a while. If you are not a preacher, don't preach, just live it.
Can't Touch This!!



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Politics, Christian Right, Evangelicals, Republicans, Social Issues, 2007

0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users