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Prince Harry will NOT be serving in Iraq

UK Prince Harry Iraq 2007

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#41 SparkyCola

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Posted 16 May 2007 - 06:43 PM

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I see. Wasn't aware that they are no longer in danger.

They could be in a lot more. I.e., if Harry were with them, for example. If Harry were to go out there on a holiday - just like all your senator dudes he would have a ton of bodyguards. Why? Because he is a target. And YES, MUCH more of a target than a standard soldier. Would you want to be in the same team as a big bullseye sign? Wanting to protect someone more is not saying their life is worth more- it's trying to rebalance the fact that they are simply in more danger.

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Unless they, like Harry, are not going. And I don't buy, for one second, that this decision to not allow Harry to go is to protect his comrades...That just doesn't fly. They made this decision to protect Harry....plain and simple, IMO.

To protect his comrades AND Harry himself. Harry is just as important as the people he's serving with. We really don't need to be presenting them with targets.

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#42 G1223

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Posted 16 May 2007 - 07:25 PM

View PostSinister Dexter, on May 16 2007, 04:02 PM, said:

I'm not that surprised: while some will claim that it's just the MOD playing favourites, putting the lives of the other solders in trouble for what would have been a PR stunt just isn't worth it.


View PostLord of the Sword, on May 16 2007, 06:28 PM, said:

I mean, those 15 soldiers just throw up their hands and surrender without putting up a fight
Because, as we've all said before, getting themselves killed and starting yet another war would have been a much better outcome to that situation.


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#43 G1223

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Posted 16 May 2007 - 07:29 PM

View PostGodeskian, on May 16 2007, 05:58 PM, said:

View PostG1223, on May 16 2007, 08:44 PM, said:

In American History We had a military Officer by the name of Theodore Roosvelt Jr. Who was kept out of direct combat operations because he was the Son of one President and the Cousin of the Sitting President at the time.

Harry sadly is the class of people who are not allowed into combet or dangerous areas because they are high value targets.

And yet Prince Edward was allowed to serve, and in a very dangerous position as well during the Falklands war. I find it an odd dichotomy

Edward was Number TWO right? IF he died Charles would still be Heir? Right?  Harry is Now Number Two and would be the New Prince of Wales if his Grandmother stepped down or died.
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#44 BklnScott

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Posted 16 May 2007 - 08:17 PM

LoTS said:

Unless they, like Harry, are not going. And I don't buy, for one second, that this decision to not allow Harry to go is to protect his comrades...That just doesn't fly. They made this decision to protect Harry....plain and simple, IMO.

It's both, but it's also for all of us.  Think about it: Harry in a hostage video: "get out of Iraq and give us nukes or we'll cut his head off and post it to the web."  That's a nightmare none of us should have to face--especially when making sure it doesn't happen (by not letting him go to Iraq) is so easy.

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#45 Pallas

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Posted 16 May 2007 - 11:38 PM

View PostG1223, on May 16 2007, 06:29 PM, said:

View PostGodeskian, on May 16 2007, 05:58 PM, said:

View PostG1223, on May 16 2007, 08:44 PM, said:

In American History We had a military Officer by the name of Theodore Roosvelt Jr. Who was kept out of direct combat operations because he was the Son of one President and the Cousin of the Sitting President at the time.

Harry sadly is the class of people who are not allowed into combet or dangerous areas because they are high value targets.

And yet Prince Edward was allowed to serve, and in a very dangerous position as well during the Falklands war. I find it an odd dichotomy

Edward was Number TWO right? IF he died Charles would still be Heir? Right?  Harry is Now Number Two and would be the New Prince of Wales if his Grandmother stepped down or died.

Edward is the third son but I don't know where he stood in line of succession back in 1982. Harry is currently number three as well. If the Queen were to die, Prince Charles becomes the King, Prince William becomes the Prince of Wales and as far as I know, Prince Harry remains Prince Harry.

Isn't that the correct order?

Edited for clarity.

Edited by Pallas, 16 May 2007 - 11:39 PM.

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#46 Sinister Dexter

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Posted 17 May 2007 - 04:39 AM

View PostPallas, on May 17 2007, 05:38 AM, said:

If the Queen were to die, Prince Charles becomes the King, Prince William becomes the Prince of Wales and as far as I know, Prince Harry remains Prince Harry.

Isn't that the correct order?
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#47 FlatlandDan

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Posted 17 May 2007 - 04:57 AM

On a lighter note, I read in the Metro this morning that UK soliders are putting on ginger wigs and wearing shirts saying "I'm Harry!"

I was talking to a couple of military guys last night and they expressed relief that Harry isn't going over, but sympathies for him not being able to go over.  The media has made it impossible for him to be able to serve with the same degree of safety as an average UK soldier.  It isn't worth his life (and the lives of the people around him) to try and make a point to terrorists.
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#48 Spectacles

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Posted 17 May 2007 - 06:27 AM

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FlatlandDan: On a lighter note, I read in the Metro this morning that UK soliders are putting on ginger wigs and wearing shirts saying "I'm Harry!"

:D

I feel for Harry because I believe this must be an embarrassment and a frustration to him. The guy seems really to take his soldiering seriously, and the royal family has a tradition of service. But I think that it's one thing to send a prince into a conventional war and another to send him into a nest of insurgents in the age of mass media. Like Scott says:

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Think about it: Harry in a hostage video: "get out of Iraq and give us nukes or we'll cut his head off and post it to the web." That's a nightmare none of us should have to face--especially when making sure it doesn't happen (by not letting him go to Iraq) is so easy.

So I think it's the right decision, but I'm sure it's difficult for him to accept.
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#49 Hambil

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Posted 17 May 2007 - 08:01 AM

Members of the royal family, including Harry, have the British equivalent of at secret service detail. I wonder if they would have followed him to Iraq...

#50 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 17 May 2007 - 10:16 AM

View PostScottEVill, on May 16 2007, 09:17 PM, said:

It's both, but it's also for all of us.  Think about it: Harry in a hostage video: "get out of Iraq and give us nukes or we'll cut his head off and post it to the web."  That's a nightmare none of us should have to face--especially when making sure it doesn't happen (by not letting him go to Iraq) is so easy.

Ah....Gotcha. And if they capture any other normal British soldier, and show him, or her, in a hostage video and make the same demands...It's not important because it isn't Harry. Gotcha.

I guess myself and all those who think that Harry is more important then others will just have to agree to disagree.

I'm just happy that GOD in Heaven didn't hold this opinion when it came to Jesus. Could you imagine it if GOD turned and told everyone: "Nope, my Son can't come down to you...since there are those who are threatening to torture and kill him."
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#51 Tricia

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Posted 17 May 2007 - 10:38 AM

View PostLord of the Sword, on May 17 2007, 09:16 AM, said:

View PostScottEVill, on May 16 2007, 09:17 PM, said:

It's both, but it's also for all of us.  Think about it: Harry in a hostage video: "get out of Iraq and give us nukes or we'll cut his head off and post it to the web."  That's a nightmare none of us should have to face--especially when making sure it doesn't happen (by not letting him go to Iraq) is so easy.

Ah....Gotcha. And if they capture any other normal British soldier, and show him, or her, in a hostage video and make the same demands...It's not important because it isn't Harry. Gotcha.

I guess myself and all those who think that Harry is more important then others will just have to agree to disagree.


Capturing any other normal British soldier is not any less important.  

But you are right in that Harry is more important....and that is in the eyes of the terrorists.

Harry is a higher value target than your normal soldier to the terrorists...and thus worth the extra effort to capture and/or kill him.  And all the better, in their opinion, if they kill a bunch of other British soldiers  at the same time.


By not sending Harry to Iraq, those attacks that would be specifically aimed at getting Harry may not happen. Sure it does not mean that there will not be attacks but there likely will be less than there would have been if Harry was there.

But that may be JMO :rolleyes:

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#52 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 17 May 2007 - 11:16 AM

Just heard on the news that Harry will NOT be leaving the Army, like he had said he would if they refused to allow him to serve. So it looks like he was all talk anyway. Now I have to wonder if it wasn't him, and his family, behind the scenes all along?

Like I said before...Just glad GOD didn't believe his own son was more important then other people. Cause who knows what kind of world we be living in now?
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#53 BklnScott

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Posted 17 May 2007 - 11:17 AM

View PostLord of the Sword, on May 17 2007, 11:16 AM, said:

View PostScottEVill, on May 16 2007, 09:17 PM, said:

It's both, but it's also for all of us.  Think about it: Harry in a hostage video: "get out of Iraq and give us nukes or we'll cut his head off and post it to the web."  That's a nightmare none of us should have to face--especially when making sure it doesn't happen (by not letting him go to Iraq) is so easy.

Ah....Gotcha. And if they capture any other normal British soldier, and show him, or her, in a hostage video and make the same demands...It's not important because it isn't Harry. Gotcha.

I guess myself and all those who think that Harry is more important then others will just have to agree to disagree.

This is not an opinion issue.  Harry is a member of the British Royal Family.  Why hand the insurgents, or -- god forbid -- al qaeda, a propaganda victory of that magnitude?  Again, it's like putting your king or queen in jeopardy on the chess board when you don't actually *have* to.  It makes no strategic sense.

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Like I said before...Just glad GOD didn't believe his own son was more important then other people. Cause who knows what kind of world we be living in now?

Right, 'cause it's not like god resurrected his son and brought him home to hang out for all eternity after they killed him or anything. . .

Edited by ScottEVill, 17 May 2007 - 11:18 AM.

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#54 SparkyCola

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Posted 17 May 2007 - 11:24 AM

I'm sorry, but bringing religion into this debate is a bad idea and is going vastly off-topic. I also think it's a red herring. But I for one haven't forgotten that you never responded to my last post or many other of the valid comments made.

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#55 BklnScott

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Posted 17 May 2007 - 11:44 AM

Sparky, was that intended for me or LoTS?

BTW, I agree with you that it's a red herring.  This is not a "WWJD" situation.

Edited by ScottEVill, 17 May 2007 - 11:44 AM.

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#56 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 17 May 2007 - 11:45 AM

View PostSparkyCola, on May 17 2007, 12:24 PM, said:

I'm sorry, but bringing religion into this debate is a bad idea and is going vastly off-topic. I also think it's a red herring. But I for one haven't forgotten that you never responded to my last post or many other of the valid comments made.

Sparky

I most certainly did. Your last argument was pretty much the same. Harry would be a big bullseye, so he and his men would be in danger.

Well that's war for you. War equals danger. Period. Either they have faith in the training they give their soldiers or they don't. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the royals prided themselves on the members of the royal family serving in the military? I could be wrong there. If they do though, they have to know that any member of the royal family would automatically be a higher priority target...I'm not saying he isn't...just that he is NOT more important then the other soldiers. IMO he is no more worthy of life then others.

But back to the point. The royals HAD to know that if Harry, or William, entered the service they would automatically be a higher target...So like it has just be shown, they will not be allowed to serve, why even bother entering the service to begin with? Why enter when you know you won't be serving your country as a soldier?

Or is it all a show? A PR campaign.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

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Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

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#57 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 17 May 2007 - 11:54 AM

View PostScottEVill, on May 17 2007, 12:44 PM, said:

This is not a "WWJD" situation.

Maybe not exactly, per se...But it is similar.

The arguments being made are that Harry is too important to be allowed to serve. He is a target, so he can't go; cause of the threats against him.

Same applies to Jesus, except for the threats before hand...But if GOD is all knowing, GOD KNEW what would happen, but didn't say: "My son is too important. My son can't go because of what you will do to him." ect.

But, then as you have already stated, people will just say: "Oh but he brought him back so it is ok."
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

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Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

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#58 SparkyCola

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Posted 17 May 2007 - 01:07 PM

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Sparky, was that intended for me or LoTS?

Sorry for the confusion there Scott, it was LotS.

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Well that's war for you. War equals danger. Period.

Yep. What's the point of adding even more danger? There's a reason the British army stopped wearing red and started wearing camouflage.

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IMO he is no more worthy of life then others.

No one here is saying he actually is, but from the point of view of the terrorists- he is.

I understand what you're saying about the traditions of the royal family. Regarding the PR thing -it's not a PR stunt. If going to the army runs in families it's something that runs in the Royal Family - he wanted to do it, and Harry is not the kind of guy to do something he doesn't wanna do for PR. In fact, all his life he's been trying to get away from media attention.

I agree that it's a shame he can't go, but we don't know what's going on behind the scenes. If they think him serving over there will be detrimental or increase the already high danger of the other soldiers- it's not fair to send him just for the sake of it, or for the sake of him wanting to go.

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#59 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 17 May 2007 - 01:17 PM

View PostSparkyCola, on May 17 2007, 02:07 PM, said:

Yep. What's the point of adding even more danger? There's a reason the British army stopped wearing red and started wearing camouflage.

Alright, I can sort of see where you're coming from with the more danger part...to a degree. But my point is this: Yes, he is a target...No question on that. But now that the British Government has caved in to the terrorists, cause IMO that's exactly what they did...What's to stop the terrorists from turning around and saying: "Leave Iraq or we'll view every british soldier as if he were Harry." and increase all attacks on the British troops?

The British Government has already caved once, the precedent has been established, no reason why they shouldn't cave in again.

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I understand what you're saying about the traditions of the royal family. Regarding the PR thing -it's not a PR stunt. If going to the army runs in families it's something that runs in the Royal Family - he wanted to do it, and Harry is not the kind of guy to do something he doesn't wanna do for PR. In fact, all his life he's been trying to get away from media attention.

I agree that it's a shame he can't go, but we don't know what's going on behind the scenes. If they think him serving over there will be detrimental or increase the already high danger of the other soldiers- it's not fair to send him just for the sake of it, or for the sake of him wanting to go.

Sparky

That's what I really don't understand. It's a tradition for them to serve in the army....KNOWING that if in a battle they WILL be higher targets. This should be nothing new to them. Yet now they are acting like it's the first time they've even considered the possibility.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#60 szhismine

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Posted 17 May 2007 - 01:22 PM

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But now that the British Government has caved in to the terrorists, cause IMO that's exactly what they did...

:huh: :rolleyes: now that seems a tad melodramatic to me.
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