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Immigration breakthrough

Immigration Naturalization Z Visa 2007

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#1 Hambil

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Posted 17 May 2007 - 05:14 PM

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he estimated 12 million undocumented immigrants living in the United States could be put on the path to citizenship under a new immigration bill agreed upon Thursday by a bipartisan group of senators.

The 380-page bill, which comes after nearly three months of negotiations, would give immediate work authorization to undocumented workers who arrived in the United States before January 1, 2007. Those workers would be granted a "Z" visa and placed on the path to permanent residence, according to a summary provided by Kennedy, who is chairman of the Immigration Subcommittee.

But, doesn't this mean they would have to get paid minimum wage? And isn't that the biggest reason they are kept in the 'dark', so they can be exploited as cheap labor?

#2 Godeskian

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Posted 17 May 2007 - 05:15 PM

Well nuts. I should have been an illegal immigrant when this bill was passed. I could have been a citizen

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#3 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 17 May 2007 - 05:57 PM

I tuned this out once I heard that it would allow the 12 million here illegally to remain, and given citizenship. Once i heard that, was like: "Ok, they're giving them amnesty. Period. the end."

And once I realized that, my blood started boiling and had to turn the tv off before I threw something at it.
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#4 Godeskian

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Posted 17 May 2007 - 06:10 PM

And yet, people like me can't become citizens legally. I find that sad.

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#5 Lin731

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Posted 17 May 2007 - 08:18 PM

This completely pisses me off. I don't care how they dress it up, it amounts to the same damned thing, rewarding those who crossed the border illegally.
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#6 Captain Jack

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Posted 17 May 2007 - 08:31 PM

View PostGodeskian, on May 17 2007, 03:15 PM, said:

Well nuts. I should have been an illegal immigrant when this bill was passed. I could have been a citizen

Yes, I too wish I could be an illegal immigrant.  I could break the law, and be granted amnesty for it!  America has been f*cked over by politicians that only serve themselves, not the AMERICAN people. F*ck you Feinstein and all your cronie partners in this.

I have no problems with immigrants coming to America.  Just do it the right way.  If this bill passes all the way, it opens the floodgates for every shmo to waltz on in knowing that nothing can stop them.  America will no longer be a nation, just a mass mix of crap.
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#7 Captain Jack

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Posted 17 May 2007 - 08:33 PM

View PostGodeskian, on May 17 2007, 04:10 PM, said:

And yet, people like me can't become citizens legally. I find that sad.

I can help you with that.
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#8 Hambil

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Posted 17 May 2007 - 08:35 PM

Okay, I'll step into the line of fire and say I support this bill.

Here's the thing: Supply and demand works with immigration just like anything else. We have a demand for illegals, so farmers can get crops picked for $1 an hour, and so on. Dealing with the demand does more to harm the supply than a thousand fences.

#9 Captain Jack

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Posted 17 May 2007 - 08:39 PM

View PostHambil, on May 17 2007, 06:35 PM, said:

Okay, I'll step into the line of fire and say I support this bill.

Here's the thing: Supply and demand works with immigration just like anything else. We have a demand for illegals, so farmers can get crops picked for $1 an hour, and so on. Dealing with the demand does more to harm the supply than a thousand fences.

Okay, and I say bullsh*t.  We have no need for illegals.  Farmers have machines to pick crops.  Farmers, or anyone who employs illegals are also breaking the law for harboring a criminal.  I'd rather pay a little more for a head of lettuce than to grant 12 MILLION criminals amnesty, or whatever dressed up word they wish to use.
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#10 Hambil

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Posted 17 May 2007 - 09:14 PM

View PostSpidey, on May 17 2007, 06:39 PM, said:

View PostHambil, on May 17 2007, 06:35 PM, said:

Okay, I'll step into the line of fire and say I support this bill.

Here's the thing: Supply and demand works with immigration just like anything else. We have a demand for illegals, so farmers can get crops picked for $1 an hour, and so on. Dealing with the demand does more to harm the supply than a thousand fences.

Okay, and I say bullsh*t.  We have no need for illegals.  Farmers have machines to pick crops.  Farmers, or anyone who employs illegals are also breaking the law for harboring a criminal.  I'd rather pay a little more for a head of lettuce than to grant 12 MILLION criminals amnesty, or whatever dressed up word they wish to use.
Without a massive underground employment industry illegals would not want to come here. All I'm saying is dealing a blow to that industry (which this bill helps do) also deals a blow to illegal immigration. Any bill that doesn't deal a blow to that industry is most likely not going to be effective.

#11 MuseZack

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Posted 17 May 2007 - 09:19 PM

View PostHambil, on May 18 2007, 01:35 AM, said:

Okay, I'll step into the line of fire and say I support this bill.

Here's the thing: Supply and demand works with immigration just like anything else. We have a demand for illegals, so farmers can get crops picked for $1 an hour, and so on. Dealing with the demand does more to harm the supply than a thousand fences.


That's the exact reason why I as a left-winger want restrictions on illegal immigration.  An unlimited suply of cheap laborers bids down prices, especially for working class jobs.  You can't form unions if there are a billion people ready to replace you at half the wages.
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#12 Lin731

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Posted 17 May 2007 - 09:43 PM

Quote

Okay, I'll step into the line of fire and say I support this bill.

Here's the thing: Supply and demand works with immigration just like anything else. We have a demand for illegals, so farmers can get crops picked for $1 an hour, and so on. Dealing with the demand does more to harm the supply than a thousand fences.

It's really not supply and demand though, it's circumventing supply and demand by importing cheap, illegal laborers, many getting paid cash, while we foot their bills everytime they get injured. It's bankrupting hospitals and clinics and it's costing taxpayers million in lost educational dollars (paying for remedial English and special education classes for kids that shouldn't be here in the first place. As well as increased cost in law enforcement and welfare benefits...Oh and they're gonna get college assistance too, how nice for them.

Regarding the impact on Labor, it's not just the agricultural sector taking a hit. Constructions trades are taking huge hits as well with wages declining. A factory in what is now known at little Mexico used to pay 9.00 bucks an hour (which aint awesome wages to begin with) but with all the illegals, they are now paying 7.25 an hour.
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#13 Captain Jack

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Posted 17 May 2007 - 10:00 PM

View PostHambil, on May 17 2007, 07:14 PM, said:

View PostSpidey, on May 17 2007, 06:39 PM, said:

View PostHambil, on May 17 2007, 06:35 PM, said:

Okay, I'll step into the line of fire and say I support this bill.

Here's the thing: Supply and demand works with immigration just like anything else. We have a demand for illegals, so farmers can get crops picked for $1 an hour, and so on. Dealing with the demand does more to harm the supply than a thousand fences.

Okay, and I say bullsh*t.  We have no need for illegals.  Farmers have machines to pick crops.  Farmers, or anyone who employs illegals are also breaking the law for harboring a criminal.  I'd rather pay a little more for a head of lettuce than to grant 12 MILLION criminals amnesty, or whatever dressed up word they wish to use.
Without a massive underground employment industry illegals would not want to come here.

Great! :)  Problem solved.

Quote

All I'm saying is dealing a blow to that industry (which this bill helps do) also deals a blow to illegal immigration. Any bill that doesn't deal a blow to that industry is most likely not going to be effective.

This bill deals a blow the American people, and all the LEGAL immigrants.  It basically says "So you broke the law, but that's okay."  And I am not okay with that.  Its a slap in the face for hard-working Americans, and legal immigrants.  Screw the industry, it shouldn't exist employing illegals anyway since it is simply exploitation.
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#14 scherzo

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Posted 17 May 2007 - 10:27 PM

View PostMuseZack, on May 17 2007, 09:19 PM, said:

View PostHambil, on May 18 2007, 01:35 AM, said:

Okay, I'll step into the line of fire and say I support this bill.

Here's the thing: Supply and demand works with immigration just like anything else. We have a demand for illegals, so farmers can get crops picked for $1 an hour, and so on. Dealing with the demand does more to harm the supply than a thousand fences.


That's the exact reason why I as a left-winger want restrictions on illegal immigration.  An unlimited suply of cheap laborers bids down prices, especially for working class jobs.  You can't form unions if there are a billion people ready to replace you at half the wages.
I notice left-wingers give no consideration to the most important issue of all...a sovereign nation's obligation to protect it's borders. I think the U.S. is the only country in the World not expected to enforce it's own immigration laws.

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#15 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 17 May 2007 - 11:59 PM

View PostHambil, on May 17 2007, 09:35 PM, said:

Okay, I'll step into the line of fire and say I support this bill.

Here's the thing: Supply and demand works with immigration just like anything else. We have a demand for illegals, so farmers can get crops picked for $1 an hour, and so on. Dealing with the demand does more to harm the supply than a thousand fences.

Alright, I'll have to get back to you....Just as soon as I calm down. But for now all I'll say is that if this bill does become law, America might as well just say "F*ck the border! We don't need no stinking borders! Everyone! Come on in, it's a free for all sale. Everything must go!"

Mother f**king politicans!
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#16 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 18 May 2007 - 12:01 AM

View Postscherzo, on May 17 2007, 11:27 PM, said:

I notice left-wingers give no consideration to the most important issue of all...a sovereign nation's obligation to protect it's borders. I think the U.S. is the only country in the World not expected to enforce it's own immigration laws.

-scherzo

Haven't you heard? if you support America protecting it's borders you're a racist. You're a racist against any illegal that wants to cross illegally. That's the new thing in America now.

Excuse me, I have to leave this thread before I get banned.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#17 offworlder

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Posted 18 May 2007 - 12:12 AM

I personally dont like the precedent, where would be immigrants watch, can see and say : Just Get there! is all . then you can become citizens, especially if you have a kid, no one then will toss you out; USA says fam is everything; illegal can be legal, you can bring mondo family too; Just get There, any way you can!
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#18 G1223

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Posted 18 May 2007 - 12:14 AM

I guess since we are going to take these people in. We had better change the lyrics over to Spainish and also make sure that all illegals can get a free college education on the taxpayer's dime.While making sure that everyone else learns mexican so we do not need to make them learn English.

We see these New Americans who came here illegally. Maybe it is time to invade and take the next new parts of the US. Think of how nice it would be. We can save mexico from the mexicans. It must not be that great a place since they all want to come here and cannot behave themselves enough to come here legally.
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#19 Captain Jack

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Posted 18 May 2007 - 12:33 AM

View PostLord of the Sword, on May 17 2007, 09:59 PM, said:

Alright, I'll have to get back to you....Just as soon as I calm down. But for now all I'll say is that if this bill does become law, America might as well just say "F*ck the border! We don't need no stinking borders! Everyone! Come on in, it's a free for all sale. Everything must go!"

Pretty much.

Quote

Mother f**king politicans!

Couldn't have said it better myself.  They essentially betrayed America.  You can thank Democrats mainly.  Sadly, Bush is willing to sign it, so some Republicans are to blame too.  So, yeah, f**king politicians.

View Postoffworlder, on May 17 2007, 10:12 PM, said:

I personally dont like the precedent, where would be immigrants watch, can see and say : Just Get there! is all . then you can become citizens, especially if you have a kid, no one then will toss you out; USA says fam is everything; illegal can be legal, you can bring mondo family too; Just get There, any way you can!

They've been doing that for decades!  Only now, they can get away with it 100%.

View PostG1223, on May 17 2007, 10:14 PM, said:

I guess since we are going to take these people in. We had better change the lyrics over to Spainish and also make sure that all illegals can get a free college education on the taxpayer's dime.While making sure that everyone else learns mexican so we do not need to make them learn English.

It's been happening.  Ever call customer service.  Press 1 for English, press 2 for Spanish.  Now, it will be the other way around.  May as well throw away the stars and bars, and put up the Mexican flag too.  America ain't no more.  Mexico took it over without even firing a single shot.

Quote

We see these New Americans who came here illegally. Maybe it is time to invade and take the next new parts of the US. Think of how nice it would be. We can save mexico from the mexicans. It must not be that great a place since they all want to come here and cannot behave themselves enough to come here legally.

Why would we even want Mexico?  Mexicans don't even want Mexico.  

This whole thing makes me want to kick some ass, and take names.  We have been sold out by a bunch of p*ssy politicians who shot be shot out of a cannon into outer space.
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#20 Hambil

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Posted 18 May 2007 - 12:58 AM

View PostLord of the Sword, on May 17 2007, 09:59 PM, said:

View PostHambil, on May 17 2007, 09:35 PM, said:

Okay, I'll step into the line of fire and say I support this bill.

Here's the thing: Supply and demand works with immigration just like anything else. We have a demand for illegals, so farmers can get crops picked for $1 an hour, and so on. Dealing with the demand does more to harm the supply than a thousand fences.

Alright, I'll have to get back to you....Just as soon as I calm down. But for now all I'll say is that if this bill does become law, America might as well just say "F*ck the border! We don't need no stinking borders! Everyone! Come on in, it's a free for all sale. Everything must go!"

Mother f**king politicans!
Except that part of the bill is for strengthening the border, building fences, and beefing up patrols. It's not a one dimensional problem. Try to fight it like the drug war and you'll lose just as badly. As long as the illegals already in the country have to hide the cost and probability of success in finding them is low. Once they no longer have to hide - once they can demand minimum wage, the people using these labor sources will find the advantage has eroded quiet a bit.

The bill also makes coming in legally a lot easier, once again cutting down on the supply of cheap illegal labor. It also puts illegals into the health care system, so we aren't always dealing with them as critical care cases only. Preventative medicine doesn't just save lives, it saves money.

What I didn't see in the article, and I 'm waiting for the full text of the bill, is dramatically increased penalties for employing illegals.

Edited by Hambil, 18 May 2007 - 12:59 AM.




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