Hambil, on May 18 2007, 03:22 AM, said:
Lord of the Sword, on May 18 2007, 01:04 AM, said:
Why bother with the border at all? If they get here they are citizens.
I do not believe that is correct. The Bill extends to "undocumented workers who arrived in the United States before January 1, 2007
". It does nothing for new illegal workers. What it does do is given them an alternate, legal, path that make illegal entry far less desirable.
What I don't see is how they are going to prove they were here before Jan. 1, 2007 unless they go by how long they've been on their employer's payroll. And once they do that the employers wiill be admitting to having hired an illegal immigrant. They'll try to pass it off on the fact that they used fake social security numbers which is also against the law. Then they'll try to say that it would have been racial profiling to check all Hispanic applicants with more scrutiny so they'll get a pass for it in the end even though they have a strong suspicion.
Overloading the labor force does depress wages and that's why the corporations love it, they don't respect borders and the quality of life of the citizens in the countries they operate in. Labor is a cost of business to be kept down and the people in the jobs are all interchangable. The problem with all of these immigrants and a mass deportation is that they are actually doing jobs, I'm curious if some of the people in this thread bitching are willing to go stand on the assembly line for ten hours a day? 12 million working class, non office sitting down jobs, will need to be filled, sure their are some Americans that do want them, and would take them if they were able to afford to live off of them but a lot of people DO think they are above manual labor. In high school our Algebra teacher told the whole class that "you don't want to work in a factory." Somebody had to do those jobs, sending all the work overseas to places like China and the various third world countries might seem good when you're buying a knick knack for a $1 but if a nation can't sustain itself then it's got a major problem down the road. Capitalism without some ristrictions is a danger to our security. You don't dare risk a war with someone who supplies you with a necessity that they could cut off. I'm sure part of the idea of globalization is to make all communities interdependent so that it would make it more costly to start a war. We are the world, sing it with me, and we'll all be starving together. I think every nation should be self sufficient. And she was right b/c I did it for a while after I got out of high school, and it's boring and mundane work so I didn't stay in it. I also worked alongside some of those people you like to try to demonize and they were hard working and happy to have that depressing job.
The truth is that they can either allow some people to come in and work in American factories, farms, and other menial jobs to fill vacancies. But since the government has been taken over by corporations lining their pockets companies can move everything overseas and sell their wares here without the tariffs that would allow Ameircan companies to be compete. If you have to pay $15.00 in the U.S. because the Union, and a union will get you a decent pay rate but they are self serving enterprise now and they help drive up the cost of doing business. Compared with paying $2.00 in Mexico the companies will make the move to other countries because they can't compete and stay in business. It's what's happening to the auto industry, I'm not against free enterprise or capitalism, but their are certain realities that have to be taken into account. China may be leaning more toward some meshing of Capitalism/Communism but they can control their costs in a way U.S. businesses can't hope to do.
If they do it the way Bush wants, by beefing up the border security to prevent people from coming into this country illegally then they can actually control the flow. And fine the hell out of business that are hiring the illegals like they should have been doing ten years ago. They were lax on enforcing the laws all those years and now those people are here and companies are depending on them and we are benefiting from some of their labor. They never should have been allowed to be here but they are now. From a rounding them up standpoint the only way to do it would be to start racial profiling every Hispanic American in this country, even the legal ones. And you won't get them all, in fact, you might spark outright riots(but I'm sure the Minute Men and KKK, who's membership is up b/c of immigration, would love to have an excuse to take to the streets) and other problems. If they can't find them all but stop them from working people will resort to stealing if they are hungry enough. Sure, they should leave and could, but 12 million people is more than populate some actual states. It's an Army unto itself, and that's not taking into account the other Hispanic relatives that are natural citizenss who might align with them.
There's one thing that they shouldn't be allowed to do even if they give them some kind of status as a guest worker or whatever, and that's the right to vote.
Edited by Life for Rent, 18 May 2007 - 10:35 AM.