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Very Exciting Possible 3rd Party Bid

Election 2008 Michael Bloomberg 3rd Party Candidate NYC Mayor

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#21 Spectacles

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Posted 19 May 2007 - 11:49 AM

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Hambil: So, taken at face value Edwards is a self-made man who spent his life defending the defenseless.

Yep. I think Edwards' populism is really appealing, and he strikes me as a decent man. He's been sort of off his game lately, though. I wonder how much Elizabeth's latest struggle with cancer is affecting him....
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#22 Tricia

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Posted 19 May 2007 - 12:27 PM

I'd welcome Bloomberg as a candidate

Don't know as much as I need to in order to really decide but what I have heard has been very positive.

May have to do further research on Bloomberg.

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#23 BklnScott

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Posted 19 May 2007 - 12:52 PM

View PostSpectacles, on May 19 2007, 12:45 PM, said:

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Hambil: Show me a republican candidate for President in 2008 who supports gay marriage, and I'm there.

I don't care what he says; in his heart of hearts, I bet Rudy does. The guy's a social liberal--which is something I like about him but he's going to have a helluva time winning the Republican nomination if the rank-and-file figure that out.

I think, in their heart of hearts, a bunch of them support gay marriage.  Kerry, for example.  I looked at him, and listened to his b*llsh*t rhetoric on the issue, and I thought: "political calculation.  He'd rather be for it."  (Clinton, too.  Clinton, especially.)  

That's one of the reasons why I got so pissed at them both--Kerry, for the second debate, and Clinton for DOMA.  Because they were kowtowing to political expeidnecy--and I'm sick of being used that way, especially by politicians I would otherwise support wholeheartedly... or close to wholeheartedly, anyway.

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There isn't enough mommy in the world to further a cause like yours!

#24 RobL

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Posted 19 May 2007 - 01:25 PM

I can't say I'd vote for them before I see their stance on gun control. One of the reasons why I'm refusing to vote for Rudy is because he's pro-strong gun control.

Bring back Darthsikle!


#25 QueenTiye

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Posted 19 May 2007 - 01:37 PM

I don't understand why people would oppose Bloomberg on gay rights issues. He's hardly anti-gay rights.  

I bet that Bloomberg's stand on guns is in favor of gun control - but I'd also bet that he'd come up with strategies that don't interfere with people's rights - for politically expedient reasons.

Don't know what else people have against him, but so far, all the negatives I've ever read about him have been lots of hot air blown out of proportion for (again) politically expedient purposes.  In any event, his accomplishments far outweigh any knocks.

And - despite being one of the richest New Yorkers, and the mayor, Mayor Bloomberg regularly rides the subway to work. And takes calls from citizens (though now he directs them to the 311 center)

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#26 Spectacles

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Posted 19 May 2007 - 05:38 PM

Some interesting takes on a Bloomberg candidacy and the state of the 08 race in general:

http://washingtontim...23142-3314r.htm

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Social conservative leaders have told The Times they are determined to block Mr. Giuliani from becoming the Republican presidential candidate but that they can't stop Mr. Bloomberg from making a third-party run.
    "This much I know, if Giuliani gets the Republican nomination, that is the ticket for the Democrats to get the White House in 2008," said Tony Perkins, president of the socially conservative Family Research Council. "Many pro-life voters who have been voting Republican will not vote for the top of the ticket if it's Giuliani."
    Other top social and religious conservative leaders, in separate interviews and discussions last week, told The Times their movement has decided to support Mr. Thompson for the Republican nomination. They said he has satisfied them that he is reliably supportive of religious-conservative positions on key issues.


And on the probability of a third party candidate emerging in 08:

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"A third-party candidacy is almost inevitable" in 2008, said former Virginia Democratic Party Chairman Paul Goldman, who pointed out that third-party candidacies have affected the outcome of five of the past 10 presidential elections -- including George Wallace in 1968, John Anderson in 1980, Mr. Perot in 1992 and '96, and Green Party candidate Ralph Nader in 2000.
    "If the Republicans nominate someone the press can tag as a pro-war social conservative and the Democrats pick an anti-war liberal, Bloomberg will run up the center," Mr. Goldman said. "If conservatives don't rally to stop Giuliani they will get a third party socially conservative candidate who will only help elect the Democrat."

"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#27 RobL

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Posted 19 May 2007 - 06:37 PM

View PostQueenTiye, on May 19 2007, 10:37 AM, said:

I bet that Bloomberg's stand on guns is in favor of gun control - but I'd also bet that he'd come up with strategies that don't interfere with people's rights - for politically expedient reasons.

Don't know what else people have against him, but so far, all the negatives I've ever read about him have been lots of hot air blown out of proportion for (again) politically expedient purposes.  In any event, his accomplishments far outweigh any knocks.

Well, I've done some research on my own on several gun boards, and this guy is as bad as Hillary and Sarah Brady. Needless to say, it will be a strong "no" in casa de RobL if/when he decides to run.

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And - despite being one of the richest New Yorkers, and the mayor, Mayor Bloomberg regularly rides the subway to work. And takes calls from citizens (though now he directs them to the 311 center)

QT

And I drive a 4 cylinder Toyota P/U truck. So what?

I could care less what the person drives to work. And I'd rather he be doing his job, then dicking around on the phone answering questions that some other civil-service peon could answer. Its not an effective use of his time.

Edited by RobL, 19 May 2007 - 06:37 PM.

Bring back Darthsikle!


#28 DWF

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Posted 19 May 2007 - 06:42 PM

View PostRhea, on May 19 2007, 12:24 PM, said:

View PostSpidey, on May 18 2007, 11:30 PM, said:

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Wow! Looks like he might have had a stroke at one time.

With those ears he looks like a Frengi.  :vulcan:
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#29 Nonny

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Posted 19 May 2007 - 07:38 PM

View PostHambil, on May 18 2007, 10:43 PM, said:

I'm not voting for a republican, or former republican. Maybe if we didn't have as strong a democratic field - but we do. There are at least three dems running I'd be happy with as president - Hillary, Obama, and Edwards. I see no reason to give another republican another chance to screw things up when I've got good democrats to choose from.
Hillary is a former Republican.  As far as I'm concerned, she still is one.  

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#30 BklnScott

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 12:31 PM

View PostQueenTiye, on May 19 2007, 02:37 PM, said:

I don't understand why people would oppose Bloomberg on gay rights issues. He's hardly anti-gay rights.

He *did* appeal to the state's highest court when the superior court handed victory to a set of NYC couples suing for marriage rights.  That appeal resulted in the high court overturning that victory--So we do not have the right to marry in NYC where we otherwise would have.  That's on Bloomberg.  It just adds insult to injury that he might well *be* a closeted gay man who appealed the ruling because he didn't want to open himself up to questions about his own orientation.

So, that's why people are unhappy with Bloomberg on gay rights issues.

View PostRobL, on May 19 2007, 07:37 PM, said:

And I drive a 4 cylinder Toyota P/U truck. So what?

You drive a Japanese car?  Traitor!  :devil:

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#31 QueenTiye

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 12:49 PM

View PostRobL, on May 19 2007, 07:37 PM, said:

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And - despite being one of the richest New Yorkers, and the mayor, Mayor Bloomberg regularly rides the subway to work. And takes calls from citizens (though now he directs them to the 311 center)

QT

And I drive a 4 cylinder Toyota P/U truck. So what?

I could care less what the person drives to work. And I'd rather he be doing his job, then dicking around on the phone answering questions that some other civil-service peon could answer. Its not an effective use of his time.

Well - as Mayor of NY, being pro gun control is perfectly reasonable.  As president, I'm sure his position would shift - he'd have the wider country to consider - and he's that kind of guy. (Scott put it well - he's a pragmatist.)

But the subway issue is of big concern to New Yorkers.  It's called "walking the walk."  Bloomberg demonstrates a couple of things in doing that - he isn't above the people of NY who have to schlep to work by train all the time, while he could jetset it into town in a limo. Symbolic, perhaps, but an important symbol.

Scott- I knew about the appeal, but I didn't think that he was wrong to make the appeal - and the fact that it was overturned, means that it would have been anyway (as has happened in other states where similar court decisions were rendered).  The legislature has to make a law that works for the city of NY.

QT

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#32 offworlder

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 01:05 PM

I dont know much about him, but the whole thing smack to me ill in the way of some super rich guy buying his way in ~ I wonder how much he spent on his mayoral campagn, when was that Four years ago? I heard Savage ranting on this too, and I agreed though without his hysterical histrionics, I just dont like that it takes now $30M or more to run for big major things, and money talks more than 'what it takes inside', and people can just buy the major support and tv soundbyte ooomph to get the big notice, and how voters often vote for some soundbyte rather than what is or should be real.

so I cant back this buying guy.
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#33 QueenTiye

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 01:15 PM

It's a good point but not one that is his fault.  Campaign finance reform never seems to go as far as it needs to to make it possible for the average American to run for office.  In NJ, two candidates for the state senate were members of the same church and were two of the wealthiest men in the state.  Corzine won, and then went on to become governor after McGreevey resigned.  

The thing that billionaires CAN say, and which you can appreciate - is that they don't have to be in someone's pocket in order to run.  Special interest groups need to be appealed to, for their block of votes, but a billionaire doesn't need money from big corporations or major special interests to fund their campaign - the money buys influence that the average American can't buy - and is therefore more corrupting, and more evil - because it's invisible.  It would be nice if that kind of independence were available to all - but I appreciate a candidate who has that kind of independence. YMMV

QT

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#34 BklnScott

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 02:10 PM

QT said:

Scott- I knew about the appeal, but I didn't think that he was wrong to make the appeal

Unsurprising.  I thought he could not have been more wrong, and if he himself is gay, that brings up the possibility that he made the appeal for personal reasons (to protect the lie that is his existence) rather than for legitimate, professional reasons.  (Especially because he claims to be *pro* gay marriage.)

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and the fact that it was overturned, means that it would have been anyway (as has happened in other states where similar court decisions were rendered).

How do you figure?  If he had not appealed the superior court ruling, the case would've ended there and gay marriage would have been legal in NYC.  

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The legislature has to make a law that works for the city of NY.

QT

I feel quite certain that your position on other court-ordered remedies to the tyranny of the majority down through the years was quite different.  Would you have been content to wait until legislatures saw the light on segregation and miscegenation laws?  Somehow, I doubt it.

Edited by ScottEVill, 20 May 2007 - 02:10 PM.

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There isn't enough mommy in the world to further a cause like yours!

#35 Hambil

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 03:10 PM

View PostQueenTiye, on May 20 2007, 11:15 AM, said:

The thing that billionaires CAN say, and which you can appreciate - is that they don't have to be in someone's pocket in order to run.
But they will be. You don't get to be a billionaire by spending your own money.

Edited by Hambil, 20 May 2007 - 03:10 PM.


#36 Bobby

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 03:21 PM

He might not be beholden to anyone but in order to get funding for the stuff he wants done, it'll have to go through the House and Senate so it doesn't really make much difference.  He doesn't have to worry about raising the money to get his name out there b/c he can foot the bill but he'll still have the same pitfalls when it comes to making his vision a reality.

#37 QueenTiye

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 05:12 PM

View PostScottEVill, on May 20 2007, 03:10 PM, said:

I feel quite certain that your position on other court-ordered remedies to the tyranny of the majority down through the years was quite different.  Would you have been content to wait until legislatures saw the light on segregation and miscegenation laws?  Somehow, I doubt it.

Let's put it this way.  If I had been of my parent's generation, I would probably have to agree with you.  But I'm not. I'm the next generation - benefiting from and also somewhat critical of, the actions of the previous.  Lots of stuff went out with the bathwater with the rulings from the court, and lots of the underlying assumptions going into some of the desegregation efforts were wrong.  I'm more a fan of Clarence Thomas than some would suspect.    

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#38 Nonny

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 07:55 PM

View PostQueenTiye, on May 20 2007, 03:12 PM, said:

I'm more a fan of Clarence Thomas than some would suspect.
Not a surprise.
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#39 Spectacles

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 10:08 AM

Zogby has an interesting piece on Bloomberg and others who aren't in the race--yet (Gore, Gingrich).

http://www.huffingto...t-_b_49040.html
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#40 Nonny

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 10:56 AM

View PostSpectacles, on May 22 2007, 08:08 AM, said:

Zogby has an interesting piece on Bloomberg and others who aren't in the race--yet (Gore, Gingrich).

http://www.huffingto...t-_b_49040.html

Quote

But , as is the case with Democrats and Gore, there are limitations to this scenario with Gingrich. For starters, Gingrich is a polarizing figure and this might not be the right time for a divider, not a uniter. Fifty-two percent of our national poll of likely voters in mid-March said they would NEVER would vote for him. Never is a daunting word.
I didn't finish the poll I started.  Faced with the choice of Hillary or Newt, with no other options, I found myself facing my nightmare choice, and I don't want either one of them.   :(

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"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

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Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot



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