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Points To Ponder

Presidential Campaigns Politics-American

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Poll: Which most closely reflects your view? (61 member(s) have cast votes)

Which most closely reflects your view?

  1. Presidents don't keep campaign promises and only make them because they will say anything to get elected (27 votes [45.76%])

    Percentage of vote: 45.76%

  2. Presidents can't keep campaign promises because they don't know what the real "inside story" is until they take office. (9 votes [15.25%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.25%

  3. Presidents can't keep campaign promises because of partisanship in Congress. (6 votes [10.17%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.17%

  4. Republicans don't keep campaign promises but Democrats do. (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  5. Democrats don't keep campaign promises but Republicans do. (1 votes [1.69%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.69%

  6. Presidents keep campaign promises. (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  7. Other (16 votes [27.12%])

    Percentage of vote: 27.12%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 AnneZo

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Posted 11 June 2003 - 05:47 AM

I do have a reason for posting this poll but I don't want to discuss it until after I get some responses because I don't want to distort the outcome.

Seriously. Don't dwell on the answers or go do research, okay? This isn't about facts. Posted Image  It's about what we automatically, even unconsciously "believe" at this moment in time.  

Feel free to make comments to define "other" if you need to.

#2 Godeskian

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Posted 11 June 2003 - 05:51 AM

I honestly believe that a president lies to get into office, and has no intention of keeping his promise

and leaders of every country, prime ministers as well as presidents

Defy Gravity!


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#3 Ogami

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Posted 11 June 2003 - 05:56 AM

Other. Just a quick rundown from memory:

Candidate Clinton promised

Focus on domestic issues rather than foreign policy: Kept
Middle Class Tax Cut: Broken (1993)
Protect Social Security: Broken (raised taxes on Social Security recipients in 1993)
Gays in the military: Kept
100,000 new cops: Broken (states had to pay their salaries after 2 years, few takers)
Balanced budget: Kept (second term)

Candidate Bush promised

Holding Saddam Hussein accountable: Kept
Restoring government's ties to religious charities: Kept
Holding Kim Jong Il accountable: Kept
Delivering a tax rebate to taxpayers: Kept
Reducing federal income taxes: Kept
Restoring America's military capability: Kept
Lowering government spending: Broken
Fighting Campaign Finance Reform: Broken
Fighting for School Vouchers/Education Reform: Broken

-Ogami

Edited by Ogami, 11 June 2003 - 06:49 AM.


#4 Rov Judicata

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Posted 11 June 2003 - 06:40 AM

Other.

Realities aside from Congress keep the president from doing what he promised. There is, of course, also a healthy dose of lies.

Ogami-- Good rundown, but...

Quote

Holding Saddam Hussein accountable

He hardly campaigned heavily on that.

Quote

Holding Kim Jong Il accountable

He's working on it, but I would hardly call that a kept promise, yet.
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#5 Ogami

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Posted 11 June 2003 - 06:53 AM

Sorry Javert, you might remember a speech candidate Bush made. Not for what it said, but its notoriety. Democrats tried to make hay out of his speech at Bob Jones university, remember that? I happened to actually read a transcript of his speech there, it was a major foreign policy speech outlining everything he planned to work on. He noted the threat of Saddam Hussein's pursuit of WMDs, North Korea, Iran, and our relations with our allies and former Cold War enemies. He promised a lot of things in that speech, like rebuilding our military and restoring respect for America's military worldwide. Two wars later, promises kept.

Just on a quick search, Bush answering an audience question in one of his three debates with Algore. Let's see how well it holds up three years later:

Quote

MEMBER OF AUDIENCE: What would you make -- what would make you the best candidate in office during the Middle East crisis?

BUSH: I've been a leader. I've been a person who has to set a clear vision and convince people to follow. I've got a strategy for the Middle East. And first let me say that our nation now needs to speak with one voice during this time, and I applaud the president for working hard to diffuse tensions. Our nation needs to be credible and strong. When we say we're somebody's friend, everybody has got to believe it. Israel is our friend and we'll stand by Israel. We need to reach out to modern Arab nations as well. To build coalitions to keep the peace. I also need -- the next leader needs to be patient. We can't put the Middle East peace process on our timetable. It's got to be on the timetable of the people that we're trying to bring to the peace table. We can't dictate the terms of peace, which means that you have to be steady. You can't worry about polls or focus groups. You've got to have a clear vision. That's what a leader does. A leader also understands that the United States must be strong to keep the peace. Saddam Hussein still is a threat in the Middle East. Our coalition against Saddam is unraveling. Sanctions are loosened. The man who may be developing weapons of mass destruction, we don't know because inspectors aren't in. So to answer your question, it requires a clear vision, a willingness to stand by our friends, and the credibility for people both friend and foe to understand when America says something, we mean it.

Edited by Ogami, 11 June 2003 - 07:01 AM.


#6 Godeskian

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Posted 11 June 2003 - 07:01 AM

I've actually heard part of that speech, and i'll agree with you that he did mention Saddam,

but i don't agree that it was a major national campaign point

and respect for the US military?

not worldwide there isn't. There is some respect for it's power, but plenty of disdain for the military itself and how it's used. At least that's true in much of western europe.

i can't judge the US domestic situation

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#7 QueenTiye

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Posted 11 June 2003 - 07:05 AM

Gentlemen - out of respect for AnneZo's wishes - I think you are corrupting her poll...

Oops - forgot to add - I defined "other" as Options 1, 2, and 3, with an add-in of "Presidents can't keep campaign promises because of monetary intimidation by special interests."

QT

Edited by QueenTiye, 11 June 2003 - 07:07 AM.

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#8 Ogami

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Posted 11 June 2003 - 07:07 AM

Queentiye wrote:

Gentlemen - out of respect for AnneZo's wishes - I think you are corrupting her poll...

I respectfully disagree, I put a quote here from candidate Bush on his plans for the Middle East. At variance to the majority of poll choices, Bush has kept the promise of everything he stated here. He's a candidate who keeps his promises.

-Ogami

#9 QueenTiye

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Posted 11 June 2003 - 07:09 AM

Ogami, on Jun 10 2003, 04:11 PM, said:

Queentiye wrote:

Gentlemen - out of respect for AnneZo's wishes - I think you are corrupting her poll...

I respectfully disagree, I put a quote here from candidate Bush on his plans for the Middle East. At variance to the majority of poll choices, Bush has kept the promise of everything he stated here. He's a candidate who keeps his promises.

-Ogami
There's an option for that...

But having said that - there's nothing to disagree with.  I quote:

Quote

Seriously. Don't dwell on the answers or go do research, okay? This isn't about facts.  It's about what we automatically, even unconsciously "believe" at this moment in time.

I'm sure there will be plenty of opportunity to debate the issue - but she's asking us about our impressions - you are corrupting the results by providing people an opportunity to think more in-depth about the issue instead of giving their gut response.

QT

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#10 Ogami

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Posted 11 June 2003 - 07:15 AM

Godeskian wrote:

I've actually heard part of that speech, and i'll agree with you that he did mention Saddam, but i don't agree that it was a major national campaign point

I don't know how to aesthetically judge his promises. For those who paid attention to what Bush said in speech after speech, yes this was a major promise. To deal with Saddam Hussein better than Clinton had. I admit that the news media didn't spend a whole lot of time quoting the man, that much is true.

and respect for the US military? not worldwide there isn't. There is some respect for it's power, but plenty of disdain for the military itself and how it's used. At least that's true in much of western europe.

There are many places in the world, as represented by a majority of the United Nations, where military strength and resolve is what is respected. Not good intentions or concessions. For those who sympathized and applauded 9/11, we don't want their love. But they certainly do respect us now, without question. Two countries in the terrorist network are gone. The rest don't have to be rocket scientists to shut up and quiet down.

-Ogami

#11 AnneZo

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Posted 11 June 2003 - 07:18 AM

Thank you, QueenTiye!

I would, in fact, ask to have discussion "held" or placed in a different thread at this time. I'm trying to gauge "gut reactions" to these questions and discussions of the facts :) interfere with that.

I have a purpose. Really I do.

I appreciate it, thanks.

Edited by AnneZo, 11 June 2003 - 07:19 AM.


#12 Ogami

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Posted 11 June 2003 - 07:18 AM

I voted in the poll, Queen Tiye, and I understand your point. But I believe my list of promises was appropriate in that the poll could have been phrased better. I believe by the number of Other votes that I am correct in this assessment.

How about a poll choice that says, "A president will keep as many campaign promises as he can without teeing off majors donors, power blocs, entrenched bureaucracies, or his own party". ;)

#13 QueenTiye

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Posted 11 June 2003 - 07:20 AM

Ogami, on Jun 10 2003, 04:22 PM, said:

How about a poll choice that says, "A president will keep as many campaign promises as he can without teeing off majors donors, power blocs, entrenched bureaucracies, or his own party". ;)
ROTFLOL!

QT

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#14 AnneZo

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Posted 11 June 2003 - 07:20 AM

It's my poll. :)

I gave the questions careful thought and almost included one similar to yours, but chose not to. Whether or not that was the right choice, time will tell.

(Can we have some responses from the lurkers, please? :) It won't hurt, I promise.)

Quote

Ogami said:
I respectfully disagree, I put a quote here from candidate Bush on his plans for the Middle East. At variance to the majority of poll choices, Bush has kept the promise of everything he stated here. He's a candidate who keeps his promises.

This is, in fact, precisely what I want to avoid here. Any discussion of actual promises and any discussion of what "he did" versus what "he did."

Edited by AnneZo, 11 June 2003 - 07:22 AM.


#15 QueenTiye

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Posted 11 June 2003 - 07:22 AM

Anne you might try next time creating a poll with no reply option.

(You might also consider locking this thread and starting a new one for that exact purpose... and I'd ask that you consider Ogami's semi-humourous  suggestion..)

Oops - ok you did consider it and rejected it. Ok. I guess we'll have to wait and see why....

QT

Edited by QueenTiye, 11 June 2003 - 07:23 AM.

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#16 Kosh

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Posted 11 June 2003 - 07:30 AM

I think politicians, in general, will lie like a rug to get into office.
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#17 Ogami

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Posted 11 June 2003 - 07:32 AM

I apologize Annezo. I listed examples of Clinton and Bush because I was disatisfied with your poll choices. I wanted to show that their examples didn't really get covered. Then I was asked specifics on my selections and got into all of that. Which was fun, but beyond your request, so sorry.  :devil:  :angel:

#18 Rhea

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Posted 11 June 2003 - 07:38 AM

Godeskian, on Jun 10 2003, 11:55 AM, said:

I honestly believe that a president lies to get into office, and has no intention of keeping his promise

and leaders of every country, prime ministers as well as presidents
No argument here.  :p  To me, the very nature of politics dictates that politicians have to at least bend the truth, if not completely distort it, in order to get elected. In other words, they say what they THINK we want to hear. And I believe that they ALL do it, from the lowliest local politician on up, regardless of party.

Edited by Rhea, 11 June 2003 - 07:41 AM.

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#19 AnneZo

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Posted 11 June 2003 - 07:44 AM

Ogami, on Jun 10 2003, 08:36 PM, said:

I apologize Annezo. I listed examples of Clinton and Bush because I was disatisfied with your poll choices. I wanted to show that their examples didn't really get covered. Then I was asked specifics on my selections and got into all of that. Which was fun, but beyond your request, so sorry.  :devil:  :angel:
S'okay. :)  We'll have a forum to discuss this later (once I finish my follow-up post that explains the purpose behind the poll), but I really wanted to avoid people thinking too much in this thread.   :o

(It's hardly the usual reason one starts a thread, I know.)

(Edited to add:  I'd have it locked and start over, QueenTiye, but I think those willing to respond might already have been "tainted" for the purpose I needed.)

Edited by AnneZo, 11 June 2003 - 07:46 AM.


#20 eryn

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Posted 11 June 2003 - 09:06 AM

Well I can't really vote for any of these.

A) We dont have a president.
B) There are more than two parties in Canada. (Re: option 4 and 5)

If I had to choose, it'd be 'other'.

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