68 replies to this topic

[DWF]

Smitty, on Jul 11 2007, 02:17 PM, said:

Anyone mind if I sidetrack a moment from the Dalek-palooza?

Okay, what in the Hell is the deal with RTD going "Hooray!" all the time?

Russell we know you're gay, no need to camp it up, has he ever said "Fabulous" too?

-cs™

I don't think it's that big of a deal Eccleston says fantastic in real life too everybody has their favorite word I guess.

[Smitty]

DWF, on Jul 11 2007, 03:52 PM, said:

Smitty, on Jul 11 2007, 02:17 PM, said:

Anyone mind if I sidetrack a moment from the Dalek-palooza?

Okay, what in the Hell is the deal with RTD going "Hooray!" all the time?

Russell we know you're gay, no need to camp it up, has he ever said "Fabulous" too?

-cs™

I don't think it's that big of a deal Eccleston says fantastic in real life too everybody has their favorite word I guess.

Oh yeah!

Maybe it's a Northern thing. Since they both come from Up North, because lots of planets have a North!

-cs™

[DWF]

Smitty, on Jul 11 2007, 05:13 PM, said:

DWF, on Jul 11 2007, 03:52 PM, said:

Smitty, on Jul 11 2007, 02:17 PM, said:

Anyone mind if I sidetrack a moment from the Dalek-palooza?

Okay, what in the Hell is the deal with RTD going "Hooray!" all the time?

Russell we know you're gay, no need to camp it up, has he ever said "Fabulous" too?

-cs™

I don't think it's that big of a deal Eccleston says fantastic in real life too everybody has their favorite word I guess.

Oh yeah!

Maybe it's a Northern thing. Since they both come from Up North, because lots of planets have a North!

-cs™

LOL! RTD is from Swansea, Wales.  

[DWF]

From Keith Topping's Fan Phrasebook.

http://keithtopping....ld-week-to.html

Quote

“High ratings do not equal quality.”
I'm appalled that lots of people are suddenly watching and enjoying the programme. Doctor Who used to be a cornerstone of my cherished outsider persona which allowed me to feel smug and superior towards the proles. I can’t do that anymore and it rilly pisses me off.

“The AI figures and ratings mean nothing.”
I don't get it; how come some many people liked it so much?

“Awards mean nothing.”
I don't get it; how come so many professionals liked it so much?

“The AI figures don't prove that the episode was any good.”
I really wish I could say that "most people hated it" without being proved wrong by statistics. But, unfortunately, I can’t.

[NeuralClone]

Forget it.

Edited by NeuralClone, 11 July 2007 - 09:54 PM.

[DWF]

^^^LOL!!!!

[NeuralClone]

I agree. The quote in my signature is quite amusing.

Edited by NeuralClone, 11 July 2007 - 10:13 PM.

[FlatlandDan]

I resisted the urge to link the phrasebook in here

[VulcanMaster]

Christopher, on Jul 11 2007, 01:40 PM, said:

VulcanMaster, on Jul 10 2007, 11:14 PM, said:

I think that you may be psychoanalyzing them to deeply and subscribing emotions to them that they may not possess. The only emotion that the average Dalek has is hate. That’s it, hate. No self doubt, no fear, no insecurity etc.

You're contradicting yourself.  Hate is what you get when you combine fear with anger.  You can't hate something you don't feel threatened by.

Can you really say that hate is a combination of fear and anger, the same way you can say that the color purple is a combination of the colors blue and red? Is it really that much of an exact science? As a career author you probably know more about human psychology than I do, so I’ll take your word for it...

Is a human model of psychology applicable to a Dalek though? Maybe, maybe not. It has been speculated in the new show (not confirmed) that on some level the Daleks may experience a "spark of fear". One thing is for sure, when Davros created the Dalek race, he set out to remove all emotions from them including fear so that only hate (pure unadulterated hate) remained. Any Dalek from that era that showed any indication at all that it was experiencing fear or compassion etc would, most likely, not have been considered fit to be called a Dalek, and been exterminated.

DWF, on Jul 11 2007, 10:40 AM, said:

I hope not that might see a return of Davros.

Quote

I hope so.

Why? Davros should've IMO remained dead after Genesis Of The Daleks the new series has no need for him in it.

Why do I want him back? Firstly, the Daleks are practically extinct so if Davros did somehow survived the time war (and lets face it, the guy is a survivor), then who better than their creator to give them a new lease of life? I don't know what they would call that particular story though, they've already done "Resurrection Of The Daleks". Perhaps they could call it Reresurrection Of The Daleks - is that an actual word?

Secondly, myself and a growing number of old-school Dalek fans are appalled by the new direction that RTD has taken the Daleks. The last couple of times that we've seen them they've either been deranged religious fanatics, or The Cult Of Incompetent Fools Skaro - don't even get me stared on them. Davros's children have gone astray, and if you ask me, they need their creator now, more than ever.

Edited by VulcanMaster, 12 July 2007 - 07:38 AM.

[NeuralClone]

VulcanMaster, on Jul 12 2007, 08:29 AM, said:

Secondly, myself and a growing number of old-school Dalek fans are appalled by the new direction that RTD has taken the Daleks. The last couple of times that we've seen them they've either been deranged religious fanatics, or The Cult Of Incompetent Fools Scaro - don't even get me stared on them. Davros's children have gone astray, and if you ask me, they need their creator now, more than ever.

At least the "deranged religious fanatics" were a believable threat, unlike the Cult of Skaro.

Edited by NeuralClone, 12 July 2007 - 07:37 AM.

[VulcanMaster]

NeuralClone, on Jul 12 2007, 01:37 PM, said:

VulcanMaster, on Jul 12 2007, 08:29 AM, said:

Secondly, myself and a growing number of old-school Dalek fans are appalled by the new direction that RTD has taken the Daleks. The last couple of times that we've seen them they've either been deranged religious fanatics, or The Cult Of Incompetent Fools Scaro - don't even get me stared on them. Davros's children have gone astray, and if you ask me, they need their creator now, more than ever.

At least the "deranged religious fanatics" were a believable threat, unlike the Cult of Skaro.

Yes, they were but I still found them a huge disappointment compared to the depiction of the Daleks (or the Dalek) in the episode "Dalek". Which is the only Dalek episode form the new era that I  have enjoyed completely. The dalek in that episode was pretty much true to Terry Nation's original vision and the story was dark, claustrophobic and  intelligent. I felt that the the entire Darlek fleet was disposed of far to easily in POTW and the ending IMO was terrible and I just didn't buy the whole religion thing.

Edited by VulcanMaster, 12 July 2007 - 08:03 AM.

[NeuralClone]

VulcanMaster, on Jul 12 2007, 08:58 AM, said:

Yes, they were but I still found them a huge disappointment compared to the depiction of the Daleks (or the Dalek) in the episode "Dalek". Which is the only Dalek episode form the new era that I  have enjoyed completely. The dalek in that episode was pretty much true to Terry Nation's original vision and the story was dark, claustrophobic and  intelligent. I felt that the the entire Darlek fleet was disposed of far to easily in POTW and the ending IMO was terrible and I just didn't buy the whole religion thing.

"Dalek" is by far the best episode featuring the Daleks in the new series. It's one of my favorite episodes to date and it's certainly one of my favorites in season 1.

While I agree that the fleet was disposed of a bit too easily in POTW, I think the ending and everything else in the episode more than makes up for it (sorry, I loved the ending ). I thought the religion thing worked fairly well, given that the Daleks were part human and the emperor created them. If they hadn't been part human and if the emperor hadn't created them, I may have had more trouble accepting it, simply because religion doesn't seem like something the Daleks would give into. I may be wrong because I haven't seen any of the original series but that's just my impression.

Edited by NeuralClone, 12 July 2007 - 08:32 AM.

[Christopher]

I can certainly buy those particular Daleks being religious fanatics, because their "religion" was obsessive worship of the Dalek Emperor who created them in the first place.  That Emperor survived alone for thousands of years, going even madder than usual for a Dalek, and gradually, painstakingly created a new Dalek race.  It's not surprising that it would've come to think of itself as a god; that's only a small step up from the Daleks' conviction that they're the ultimate life form in the universe.  Since the Emperor was creating the ultimate life form in the universe, then in its mind it must've been even greater than the ultimate life form in the universe, and the only thing that fits that description is a god.  So the other Daleks worshipped the Emperor because it made them to worship it.  In this context, for these particular Daleks, it makes perfect sense, even if it wouldn't be the case with other Daleks.

[NeuralClone]

Christopher, on Jul 12 2007, 09:32 AM, said:

I can certainly buy those particular Daleks being religious fanatics, because their "religion" was obsessive worship of the Dalek Emperor who created them in the first place.  That Emperor survived alone for thousands of years, going even madder than usual for a Dalek, and gradually, painstakingly created a new Dalek race.  It's not surprising that it would've come to think of itself as a god; that's only a small step up from the Daleks' conviction that they're the ultimate life form in the universe.  Since the Emperor was creating the ultimate life form in the universe, then in its mind it must've been even greater than the ultimate life form in the universe, and the only thing that fits that description is a god.  So the other Daleks worshipped the Emperor because it made them to worship it.  In this context, for these particular Daleks, it makes perfect sense, even if it wouldn't be the case with other Daleks.

I know we haven't exactly been agreeing that much in this thread, but on this I completely agree.

[KRAD]

I'd argue against the Daleks needing their creator. Prior to Davros's resurrection in "Destiny of the Daleks," the Daleks were the biggest badasses in the galaxy. After that, they were constantly losing, on the run, and a big ol' mess, divided in two, and generally not very threatening.

Davros coming back did the Daleks no favors, if you look at the episodes.....

[NeuralClone]

KRAD, on Jul 12 2007, 12:10 PM, said:

I'd argue against the Daleks needing their creator. Prior to Davros's resurrection in "Destiny of the Daleks," the Daleks were the biggest badasses in the galaxy. After that, they were constantly losing, on the run, and a big ol' mess, divided in two, and generally not very threatening.

Davros coming back did the Daleks no favors, if you look at the episodes.....

Whoa. Okay, in that case, I'm completely against his return as well. The last thing I want to see is more Daleks like the Cult of Skaro.

Edited by NeuralClone, 12 July 2007 - 12:15 PM.

[Smitty]

Davros best appearance was his debut played by Michael Wisher in Genesis of the Daleks, David Gooderson was flat but Terry Molloy did great in his turn even though he pushed the Daleks into the background.

The same sort of thing happened to the Cybermen when the Cybercontroller was introduced the Troughton serial Tomb of the Cybermen.

"Excellent."

-cs™

[G-man]

It's kind of ironic that with Genesis of the Daleks, Terrence Dicks inadvertantly neutralized the Dalek's as a threat.  Of course, that might've been all part of the Doctor's plan

/s/

Gloriosus
the G-man Himself

[DWF]

G-man, on Jul 12 2007, 03:51 PM, said:

It's kind of ironic that with Genesis of the Daleks, Terrence Dicks inadvertantly neutralized the Dalek's as a threat.  Of course, that might've been all part of the Doctor's plan

/s/

Gloriosus
the G-man Himself

Terry Nation wrote Genesis Of The Daleks and Robert Holmes was the script editor at the time Terrence Dicks had nothing to do with the story.

[DWF]

NeuralClone, on Jul 12 2007, 01:14 PM, said:

KRAD, on Jul 12 2007, 12:10 PM, said:

I'd argue against the Daleks needing their creator. Prior to Davros's resurrection in "Destiny of the Daleks," the Daleks were the biggest badasses in the galaxy. After that, they were constantly losing, on the run, and a big ol' mess, divided in two, and generally not very threatening.

Davros coming back did the Daleks no favors, if you look at the episodes.....

Whoa. Okay, in that case, I'm completely against his return as well. The last thing I want to see is more Daleks like the Cult of Skaro.

There's never been Daleks like the Cult Of Skaro for one thing they have names and for another they're willing to do things the Daleks in the past would never even conceive of. But the Daleks before Genesis Of The Daleks heck even before The Evil Of The Daleks were wilder and had some really far out plans for conquest.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...khistory2.shtml

Quote

Prior to Genesis of the Daleks, Davros did not feature in Dalek history and was never referred to. Without him the Daleks had a solid, cohesive empire, always with one purpose. With him around they are a mess of squabbling factions, incapable of the unity needed to develop dimensionally transcendental time travel. Whilst Davros lives the Daleks will remain disorganised, and will never become the threat that the Time Lords so feared.

According to RTD it was the events in Genesis Of The Daleks that started the Time War between the Daleks and the Time Lords.

http://p083.ezboard....a...01&stop=120

Quote

Now, the story of the Great (and final) Time War is hard to piece together, because so little survived. Certainly, both had been testing each others strength for many, many years. The Daleks had threatened the Time Lord High Council before, by trying to replace its members with Dalek duplicates. And one of the Dalek Puppet Emperors had openly declared his hostility. Though perhaps the Daleks’ wrath was justifiable – they had been provoked! At one point in their history, the Time Lords had actually sent the Doctor back in time, to prevent the creation of the Daleks. An act of genocide! The Time Lords fired the first shot – though in their defence, they took this course of action because they had foreseen a time when the Daleks would overrun all civilized life and become the dominant life-form in the universe.

Some tried to find a peaceful solution. While it’s hard to find precise records of these events, it’s said that under the Act of Master Restitution, President Romana opened a peace treaty with the Daleks. Others claim that the Etra Prime Incident began the escalation of events. But whatever the cause – and its almost certain that the full story has yet to be uncovered – the terrible War began. The Time Lords reached back into their own history, to assemble a fleet of Bowships, Black Hole Carriers and N-Forms; the Daleks unleashed the full might of the Deathsmiths of Goth, and launched an awesome fleet into the Vortex, led by the Emperor himself.

The War raged, but for most species in the universe, life continued as normal. The War was fought in the Vortex, and beyond that, in the Ultimate Void, beyond the eyes and ears of ordinary creatures. The Lesser Species lived in ignorance. If a planet found its history subtle changing – perhaps distorting and rewriting itself under the pressures of the rupturing Vortex – then its people were part of that change, and perceived nothing to be wrong. Only the Higher Species – those further up the evolutionary ladder – saw what was happening. The Forest of Cheem gazed upon the bloodshed, and wept. The Nestene Consciousness lost all of its planets, and found itself mutating under temporal stress. The Greater Animus perished and its Carsenome Walls fell into dust. And it is said that the Eternals themselves watched, and despaired of this reality, and fled their hallowed halls, never to be seen again…

Years passed, as the mighty armies clashed. And then, silence. No one knows exactly what happened in the final battle. And no one knows how it came to end. All that is known is that one man strode from the wreckage, one man walked free from the ruins of Gallifrey and Skaro. The Time Lord called the Doctor. And his hearts were heavy as he boarded his ship once more, and took to the skies, to escape everything he had just seen; everything he had just done…

He is alone and thinks, somehow, that he deserves this. And as he wanders on, he decides that no one should stand beside him. He’s got no room, on board his TARDIS. He is a traveler, and needs no other.