Jump to content


Getting an "Insecure Connection" warning for Exisle? No worry

Details in this thread

Young Wis. woman killed baby, hid body

Wisconsin Infanticide Crime

  • Please log in to reply
95 replies to this topic

#1 Bossy

Bossy

    Chaos Personified

  • Islander
  • 1,408 posts

Posted 18 June 2003 - 03:04 AM

A couple of days ago, a Wisconsin couple were investigating a funny smell in their house. They called their 22 yr old daughter who had just recently moved to Texas. She claimed she had no idea what it was, but she also didn't want them looking through her things. Well, they did. Horrifyingly, they found the body of a baby hidden in a plastic container.

You can find a complete article here.

As if that wasn't bad enough, I found this report this morning. It seems that the police have found the remains of a second baby hidden at the home of this woman's parents.

In the first article, they give some brief descriptions of why this woman says she did this. Its chilling really.

Any thoughts and comments on this increasing trend in our counrty?

#2 QueenTiye

QueenTiye

    Behavior is not reproducible over multiple trials.

  • Islander
  • 24,331 posts

Posted 18 June 2003 - 03:16 AM

I didn't see any description of why this woman did this.

But the story is horrifying, and beyond comprehension.  WHAT makes people do things like this?

Een Draght Mackt Maght


#3 Bad Wolf

Bad Wolf

    Luck is when opportunity meets preparation

  • Islander
  • 38,881 posts

Posted 18 June 2003 - 03:18 AM

It's so sad to see this kind of story.

The other day in the South Bay a baby was found on the road dead.  It had been wrapped in a blanket and put in a plastic container.  Initial investigation indicates that it was still born, which is *something*.  What I hadn't known about is that in CA there is a law that allows parents to give up their baby no questions asked within 72 hours of birth if they'll just take them to a hospital.

Maybe that kind of law will help, I don't know.

Education is another way to help but there are some people that aren't going to be reached by that.

From the first article:

Quote

When sheriff's officials traveled to Abilene to talk with Kristin Scott, she said she gave birth to the baby at her parent's house while they were home. She said she hid the pregnancy and birth from her parents.

Kristin Scott said she didn't care for the baby and it died after 30 minutes. She told sheriff's officials that the baby "had to die" and gave reasons why she could not care for it.



Seeing this kind of story is one reason I get touchy when people start spouting "God's plan" for men and women to make babies.

Obviously not everyone is parent material and there are too damn many people out there getting pregnant without really knowing what they're getting into.

:(
Posted Image

#4 Drew

Drew

    Josef K.

  • Islander
  • 12,191 posts

Posted 18 June 2003 - 03:18 AM

The baby "had to die" because she could not care for it? Has this woman never heard of adoption before?  :glare:

I fear we put so much stress on preventing unwanted pregnancies (highlighting the abortion option if birth control didn't work) that the notion of there being an option with unwanted children after birth--adoption--has somehow slipped the minds of the masses.

I think Minnesota has begun a program where, within a certain amount of time after a child's birth, a woman can surrender it at any police station without penalty if she feels she cannot care for it. I've got mixed feelings about that, but it is certainly a better option than killing your baby.

Heck, I'd rather see someone place the baby in a basket and leave it at the neighbor's door with a note, just like in the cartoons.

:pout:
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#5 QueenTiye

QueenTiye

    Behavior is not reproducible over multiple trials.

  • Islander
  • 24,331 posts

Posted 18 June 2003 - 03:22 AM

There is a similar law in New Jersey - in fact, it is widely advertised on the buses.  I gather that it does help.

Een Draght Mackt Maght


#6 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

  • Islander
  • 9,226 posts

Posted 18 June 2003 - 03:29 AM

I don't even know what to say...  :( I've heard this kind of story before, but it still dumbfounds me.
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#7 Rov Judicata

Rov Judicata

    Crassly Irresponsible and Indifferent

  • Islander
  • 15,720 posts

Posted 18 June 2003 - 03:31 AM

One wonders if the 'mother' *wanted* to be caught. She apparently moved the body between two incompetent hiding places, making the chances she'd be captured very high.

Absolutely horrifying.
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#8 Ogami

Ogami
  • Islander
  • 2,976 posts

Posted 18 June 2003 - 03:36 AM

Well, I've got people who tell me abortion is a right, so I guess she did nothing wrong.

But since when did keeping souvenirs (yeck) become a right, too? :crazy:  :eek2:

(Congratulations on posting the grossest topic I've ever seen on a message board.)

-Ogami

#9 Drew

Drew

    Josef K.

  • Islander
  • 12,191 posts

Posted 18 June 2003 - 03:40 AM

Ogami, on Jun 17 2003, 11:37 AM, said:

(Congratulations on posting the grossest topic I've ever seen on a message board.)
Oh, I doubt that.
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#10 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

  • Islander
  • 9,226 posts

Posted 18 June 2003 - 03:43 AM

^ this is not the same thing... Though I know pro-life people would see it as the same thing. Before this becomes a pro-life/pro-choice thread :p :) the laws as they stand now say that killing a person after birth is murder.

Edited by sierraleone, 18 June 2003 - 03:44 AM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#11 Bossy

Bossy

    Chaos Personified

  • Islander
  • 1,408 posts

Posted 18 June 2003 - 03:45 AM

Drew, on Jun 17 2003, 11:19 AM, said:

The baby "had to die" because she could not care for it? Has this woman never heard of adoption before?  :glare:

I fear we put so much stress on preventing unwanted pregnancies (highlighting the abortion option if birth control didn't work) that the notion of there being an option with unwanted children after birth--adoption--has somehow slipped the minds of the masses.

I would take that a step further. According to a large portion of our society, abortion is a perfectly acceptable means of terminating an unwanted pregnancy. So, if its alright to kill a baby just before its born, its alright to kill a baby just after its born. What difference does a couple of days make.

I know, that's not particularly logical or rational. However, the people who do such thinks aren't really what I would call logical or rational.

Quote

I think Minnesota has begun a program where, within a certain amount of time after a child's birth, a woman can surrender it at any police station without penalty if she feels she cannot care for it. I've got mixed feelings about that, but it is certainly a better option than killing your baby.

Heck, I'd rather see someone place the baby in a basket and leave it at the neighbor's door with a note, just like in the cartoons.

:pout:
I agree that such a solution isn't ideal. It treats the symptom rather than the cause. That being said, it is certainly the right thing to do in order to save the lives of defenseless babies. I have heard of a number of area that have enacted such laws. Babies can be left at a police station, hosptial, or church where staff is present.

I remember watching a special report where the local Catholic churches had even built special drop points. It was a little door that openned to a special bassinet. The baby could be placed inside. A bell would sound inside the parish or convent when the door was openned. Someone would then come collect the baby. I'm thinking this was somewhere in Europe, but I could be mistaken.

Edited by Bossy, 18 June 2003 - 03:46 AM.

Bossy

Kryptonite, silver bullet, Buffy? Dammit, what does it take to keep you in the grave? - John to Scorpy

And what the hell is Succubitch doing here? - Lorne

Captain, your presence here has not been overly meddlesome. - Ambassador Soval

.... it'll only induce me to acts of eloquence and mayhem. - Hawk

#12 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

  • Islander
  • 9,226 posts

Posted 18 June 2003 - 03:52 AM

Bossy, on Jun 17 2003, 08:46 AM, said:

Drew, on Jun 17 2003, 11:19 AM, said:

The baby "had to die" because she could not care for it? Has this woman never heard of adoption before? :glare:

I fear we put so much stress on preventing unwanted pregnancies (highlighting the abortion option if birth control didn't work) that the notion of there being an option with unwanted children after birth--adoption--has somehow slipped the minds of the masses.

I would take that a step further. According to a large portion of our society, abortion is a perfectly acceptable means of terminating an unwanted pregnancy. So, if its alright to kill a baby just before its born, its alright to kill a baby just after its born. What difference does a couple of days make.
I know of no place that would allow a woman to have an abortion so close to her due date. Most places allow abortions in the first trimester. I think Texas(?) allows them up to six months. Hearing that made me  :blink:  but I haven't heard any allow them further along in the pregnancy than that.
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#13 Bad Wolf

Bad Wolf

    Luck is when opportunity meets preparation

  • Islander
  • 38,881 posts

Posted 18 June 2003 - 03:59 AM

Thank you sierra.

I am unaware of any law allowing abortion after the first trimester except in certain very limited situations (like the mother's life being in jeapordy).

Leave it to a male conservative to blame this tragedy on abortion rather than look beyond it to underlying paradigms that lead to these unwanted pregnancies, in this case, a pregnancy that the girl appears to have been too ashamed of to even share with her parents.  Maybe if our preachers weren't prating on about the evils of contraception and the absolute role of woman as child bearer this kind of thing wouldn't happen.
Posted Image

#14 Drew

Drew

    Josef K.

  • Islander
  • 12,191 posts

Posted 18 June 2003 - 04:05 AM

Una Salus Lillius, on Jun 17 2003, 12:00 PM, said:

Leave it to a male conservative to blame this tragedy on abortion rather than look beyond it to underlying paradigms that lead to these unwanted pregnancies, in this case, a pregnancy that the girl appears to have been too ashamed of to even share with her parents. 

By the way, to the best of my knowledge there are no laws against third-trimester abortions. Many places won't do them for ethical reasons, but they aren't (yet) illegal.
What I said was that the adoption option isn't stressed as much as it should be. The options stressed most often in this country are birth control, or if that doesn't work, abortion. I did not "blame abortion." Please read my post more carefully.
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#15 QueenTiye

QueenTiye

    Behavior is not reproducible over multiple trials.

  • Islander
  • 24,331 posts

Posted 18 June 2003 - 04:07 AM

Respectfully - before this turns into an unnecessary ideological war -
I disagree that preaching for or against abortion has anything to do with it.

The young woman is either psychologically disturbed or pathologically criminal or both.   She is a moral individual with the capability of discerning right from wrong no matter what ANYONE else preaches, and is fully capable of the basic human feeling to preserve life.  She committed this crime twice (or so it appears) - having time in between to have felt remorse and thought about other possible options... she did not, and if proven guilty, whatever fate befalls her, she deserves.

QT (who is rather annoyed by the impetus to remove personal responsibility from the equation)

Een Draght Mackt Maght


#16 Ogami

Ogami
  • Islander
  • 2,976 posts

Posted 18 June 2003 - 04:07 AM

Lil wrote:

Leave it to a male conservative to blame this tragedy on abortion rather than look beyond it to underlying paradigms that lead to these unwanted pregnancies, in this case, a pregnancy that the girl appears to have been too ashamed of to even share with her parents. Maybe if our preachers weren't prating on about the evils of contraception and the absolute role of woman as child bearer this kind of thing wouldn't happen.

Not in any neighborhood I've ever lived in. In the real world, we should condemn women who put their children in jars as keepsakes. This is a given, but it's been institutionalized if the child is a bit more defenseless, a bit more silent, a bit easier to kill.

I guess the evil in such an act is just a difference of trimester. To some of us, these aren't gray areas, but sharply black and white.

-Ogami

#17 Rov Judicata

Rov Judicata

    Crassly Irresponsible and Indifferent

  • Islander
  • 15,720 posts

Posted 18 June 2003 - 04:08 AM

Drew, on Jun 17 2003, 10:06 AM, said:

What I said was that the adoption option isn't stressed as much as it should be. The options stressed most often in this country are birth control, or if that doesn't work, abortion. I did not "blame abortion." Please read my post more carefully.
I don't think she meant you, Drew...
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#18 Bossy

Bossy

    Chaos Personified

  • Islander
  • 1,408 posts

Posted 18 June 2003 - 04:10 AM

Una Salus Lillius, on Jun 17 2003, 12:00 PM, said:

Thank you sierra.

I am unaware of any law allowing abortion after the first trimester except in certain very limited situations (like the mother's life being in jeapordy).

Leave it to a male conservative to blame this tragedy on abortion rather than look beyond it to underlying paradigms that lead to these unwanted pregnancies, in this case, a pregnancy that the girl appears to have been too ashamed of to even share with her parents.  Maybe if our preachers weren't prating on about the evils of contraception and the absolute role of woman as child bearer this kind of thing wouldn't happen.
Hello! I'm not male. :p

#19 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

  • Islander
  • 9,226 posts

Posted 18 June 2003 - 04:12 AM

Una Salus Lillius, on Jun 17 2003, 09:00 AM, said:

Thank you sierra.

I am unaware of any law allowing abortion after the first trimester except in certain very limited situations (like the mother's life being in jeapordy).

Leave it to a male conservative to blame this tragedy on abortion rather than look beyond it to underlying paradigms that lead to these unwanted pregnancies, in this case, a pregnancy that the girl appears to have been too ashamed of to even share with her parents.  Maybe if our preachers weren't prating on about the evils of contraception and the absolute role of woman as child bearer this kind of thing wouldn't happen.
I don't know if you should be thanking me....  :blush:  :D
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#20 QueenTiye

QueenTiye

    Behavior is not reproducible over multiple trials.

  • Islander
  • 24,331 posts

Posted 18 June 2003 - 04:19 AM

Further to my earlier statement... and further to point out the sheer irrelevance of the abortion issue to this topic...

Here is a woman who had the legal option to get an abortion, WHO, as the story goes, AFTER having given birth to, held, and then abandoned to die, her first child, CARRIED another child to term, gave birth, held, abandoned to die, her SECOND child.

Think about ALL the steps it took to commit this crime TWICE.

This is not an pro or con abortion story at all.  If she didn't want an abortion she had the option to give the baby up for adoption.  She had months of carrying the child to come up with that as a solution.  If she didn't have any objections to abortion, she COULD have had one early in the pregnancy.  She clearly came up with a plan for both HAVING the child in secret and disposing of it in secret... where was her plan for preserving that life, or ending it legally?

There is just no way to make me look at this and take ANY of the burden of responsibility away from her.

QT

Een Draght Mackt Maght




Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Wisconsin, Infanticide, Crime

0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users