Jump to content


Getting an "Insecure Connection" warning for Exisle? No worry

Details in this thread

Young Wis. woman killed baby, hid body

Wisconsin Infanticide Crime

  • Please log in to reply
95 replies to this topic

#41 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

  • Islander
  • 9,215 posts

Posted 18 June 2003 - 05:38 AM

^ Before I managed to get my cat fixed, I always made sure all her kittens got a home.
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#42 G1223

G1223

    The Blunt Object.

  • Dead account
  • 16,164 posts

Posted 18 June 2003 - 05:48 AM

I found a point I wanted to say about this. The abortion laws in the US are a compromise they give neither side a overhelming victory. Which is for the all the rest of us the best that can be done.

The what the where and the how the baby got here is totally irrelavant The child died there should be an investigation and if warrented a trail (I personally hope there is enough evidence)

The issues about pro life or choice are mote here. There has been a death it matters not what could have been it it a matter of where do we go from here.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#43 Drew

Drew

    Josef K.

  • Islander
  • 12,191 posts

Posted 18 June 2003 - 06:04 AM

Ogami, on Jun 17 2003, 01:21 PM, said:

The erosion comes from parents who don't note the "M for Mature" rating on every box of Grand Theft Auto. My brother and I play it, and we're both adults. There's no reason for a parent to buy this game for a child, though.
I'm not sure adults should even be playing at this kind of stuff. It's not just kids that are impressionable.

Now before you cry "CENSORSHIP" I'm not talking about banning the thing. I'd rather that society collectively agreed--without creating new laws--that such "games" are not suitable at any age.

Quote

QT: "My question there persists in being WHY DO these games make money?"

I don't know.

There is a suggestion that these things go in cycles, but I fear that they're really downward spirals. What society rejects as going too far this year may result in just a yawn next year. And even if society comes around to rejecting it again, the next time will result in an even bigger yawn until we never get a rejection cycle again.
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#44 FlatlandDan

FlatlandDan

    Sophisticate

  • Islander
  • 8,824 posts

Posted 18 June 2003 - 06:10 AM

I hope this women gets the help she needs.

I couldn't imagine killing a child, let alone one of my own.  Just the thought of sitting and watching a little baby die....*shudder*

-Dan

:ninja:
My candle burns at both its ends;
It will not last the night;
But oh, my foes, and oh, my friends --
It gives a lovely light."
-Edna St. Vincent Millay

#45 Ogami

Ogami
  • Islander
  • 2,976 posts

Posted 18 June 2003 - 06:18 AM

Drew wrote:

I'm not sure adults should even be playing at this kind of stuff. It's not just kids that are impressionable. Now before you cry "CENSORSHIP" I'm not talking about banning the thing. I'd rather that society collectively agreed--without creating new laws--that such "games" are not suitable at any age.

Now wait a minute, I'm fairly certain this mother never played Grand Theft Auto, and she put her kids in jars! Maybe if she had that game it would have allowed her to blow off steam. That game does not cause violence, never!

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go shopping for some jars.

-Ogami

#46 G1223

G1223

    The Blunt Object.

  • Dead account
  • 16,164 posts

Posted 18 June 2003 - 06:25 AM

Why are we trying to find a blanket answer here.

We have a woman who likely has a mental defect of some sort who for a reason murdered her child.

This is not a Prochoice/Prolife issue it is about a criminal act as the law sees it.
This is not about violent video gmaes it is just about the above.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#47 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

  • Islander
  • 9,215 posts

Posted 18 June 2003 - 06:26 AM

FlatlandDan, on Jun 17 2003, 11:11 AM, said:

I hope this women gets the help she needs.

I couldn't imagine killing a child, let alone one of my own.  Just the thought of sitting and watching a little baby die....*shudder*

-Dan

:ninja:
Same sentiments over here....
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#48 QueenTiye

QueenTiye

    Behavior is not reproducible over multiple trials.

  • Islander
  • 24,302 posts

Posted 18 June 2003 - 06:33 AM

Speaking as a mom...

the crime is unthinkable.  I remember when my baby was born - and I remember the first time I heard him cry. It is a truly heartwrenching experience to hear your own child cry for the first time - even when you know it's perfectly natural, normal and just the child experimenting with communication.  We are hardwired to respond to the cries of a child.  I just can't understand this... and so I'm not sure I'm even making rational arguments here.

QT

Een Draght Mackt Maght


#49 Drew

Drew

    Josef K.

  • Islander
  • 12,191 posts

Posted 18 June 2003 - 06:35 AM

Ogami, on Jun 17 2003, 02:19 PM, said:

Now wait a minute, I'm fairly certain this mother never played Grand Theft Auto, and she put her kids in jars! Maybe if she had that game it would have allowed her to blow off steam. That game does not cause violence, never!
1) How can you be sure that "Vice City" doesn't cause violent actions? By which I'm saying, how can you be sure that games like "Vice City" don't begin the violence desensitization process?

Heck, I remember playing "A.P.B" in video game arcades in the 80s, and then getting into my car and having to check myself from driving like I was driving in the game.

2) I brought up violent video games as merely one example of violence passed off as entertainment, and how killing and death are trivialized. I was not attempting to connect this woman's actions to "Vice City."

So I'll stick to my premise statement, and that's that our culture is soaked with violent imagery to the point where death is trivialized.

But I'd also like to get back to my original statement that adoption simply isn't discussed enough. I've actually heard "Oh, I could never put my baby up for adoption!" used as an excuse for abortion. Why does it seem that adoption is a greater taboo?
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#50 FlatlandDan

FlatlandDan

    Sophisticate

  • Islander
  • 8,824 posts

Posted 18 June 2003 - 06:36 AM

^^^

Not to mention the smell.  Baby's have a smell that naturaly stimulates the mothering nature is women.  

I'll still can't wrap my head around what this poor women has gone through in the past few years.  

-Dan

:ninja:

Edit:  Drew snuck one in....

Edited by FlatlandDan, 18 June 2003 - 06:37 AM.

My candle burns at both its ends;
It will not last the night;
But oh, my foes, and oh, my friends --
It gives a lovely light."
-Edna St. Vincent Millay

#51 QueenTiye

QueenTiye

    Behavior is not reproducible over multiple trials.

  • Islander
  • 24,302 posts

Posted 18 June 2003 - 06:43 AM

FlatlandDan, on Jun 17 2003, 03:37 PM, said:

^^^

Not to mention the smell.  Baby's have a smell that naturaly stimulates the mothering nature is women. 

I'll still can't wrap my head around what this poor women has gone through in the past few years. 

-Dan

:ninja:

Edit:  Drew snuck one in....
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Dan}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Een Draght Mackt Maght


#52 Ogami

Ogami
  • Islander
  • 2,976 posts

Posted 18 June 2003 - 06:45 AM

Drew wrote:

How can you be sure that "Vice City" doesn't cause violent actions? By which I'm saying, how can you be sure that games like "Vice City" don't begin the violence desensitization process? Heck, I remember playing "A.P.B" in video game arcades in the 80s, and then getting into my car and having to check myself from driving like I was driving in the game.

I can only speak from personal experience, the answer is no of course.

I have found something interesting happening when playing head-to-head against other human opponents on computer games, I break out in a cold sweat, my heart racing. I can't play like that, but it unnerved me to have such a frantic reaction to playing against other people. But that still wasn't a violent reaction.

Computer games didn't drive this poor woman over the edge, or anyone else. If it did, we'd have had a bunch of serial murderers crop up from playing "Cowbows and Indians" as kids. That never happened, just like it never happened with a single computer game.

-Ogami

#53 Drew

Drew

    Josef K.

  • Islander
  • 12,191 posts

Posted 18 June 2003 - 06:48 AM

Ogami, on Jun 17 2003, 02:46 PM, said:

I have found something interesting happening when playing head-to-head against other human opponents on computer games, I break out in a cold sweat, my heart racing.
That's quite a "real" reaction to something that's only imaginary, wouldn't you say?

Quote

I can't play like that, but it unnerved me to have such a frantic reaction to playing against other people.

Yes. Unnerved you.

Quote

But that still wasn't a violent reaction.

Not for you, . . .

But this probably belongs in a different thread.
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#54 Nikcara

Nikcara

    confused little imp

  • Islander
  • 3,500 posts

Posted 18 June 2003 - 06:50 AM

FlatlandDan, on Jun 17 2003, 07:37 PM, said:

I'll still can't wrap my head around what this poor women has gone through in the past few years. 

-Dan

:ninja:

Edit:  Drew snuck one in....
If you're talking about the woman who killed her kids, I really can't pity her.  Yes, she probably has some form of mental illness.  I'm not sure you could do that and not have some form of mental illness, but I don't really find that to be an excuse for what she did until I hear a proffestional evaultion saying she really didn't understand at all what she was doing, which I doubt will happen because if she didn't know it was wrong she wouldn't have tried to have hide the bodies.

And Ogami, I understand you don't like abortion, but can you refrain from the inflammitory 'babies in jars' comments?  I'm pro-choice, and if I wanted I could be equally inflammitory.  There's a reason I don't do that.
We have fourty million reasons for failure, but not a single excuse  -- Rudyard Kipling

Develop compassion for your enemies, that is genuine compassion.  Limited compassion cannot produce this altruism.  -- H. H. the Dalai Lama

#55 Ogami

Ogami
  • Islander
  • 2,976 posts

Posted 18 June 2003 - 06:54 AM

Drew wrote:

But this probably belongs in a different thread.

Gotcha, agreed.
____________

Nikcara wrote:

And Ogami, I understand you don't like abortion, but can you refrain from the inflammitory 'babies in jars' comments? I'm pro-choice, and if I wanted I could be equally inflammitory. There's a reason I don't do that.

Actually my jar comments were black humor to defuse a horrible news story. But I'll drop the abortion debate stuff. (Even if I do believe this article is precisely on-topic for such a debate.)

-Ogami

#56 Drew

Drew

    Josef K.

  • Islander
  • 12,191 posts

Posted 18 June 2003 - 06:55 AM

Nikcara, on Jun 17 2003, 02:51 PM, said:

And Ogami, I understand you don't like abortion, but can you refrain from the inflammitory 'babies in jars' comments?  I'm pro-choice, and if I wanted I could be equally inflammitory.  There's a reason I don't do that.
I think that's a direct reference to this incident. She kept and concealed the bodies of her dead babies. She didn't dispose of them.
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#57 QueenTiye

QueenTiye

    Behavior is not reproducible over multiple trials.

  • Islander
  • 24,302 posts

Posted 18 June 2003 - 06:57 AM

Oy vey.

Een Draght Mackt Maght


#58 Drew

Drew

    Josef K.

  • Islander
  • 12,191 posts

Posted 18 June 2003 - 06:57 AM

Nikcara, on Jun 17 2003, 02:51 PM, said:

And Ogami, I understand you don't like abortion, but can you refrain from the inflammitory 'babies in jars' comments?  I'm pro-choice, and if I wanted I could be equally inflammitory.  There's a reason I don't do that.
I think that's a direct reference to this incident. She kept and concealed the bodies of her dead babies. She didn't dispose of them.
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#59 QueenTiye

QueenTiye

    Behavior is not reproducible over multiple trials.

  • Islander
  • 24,302 posts

Posted 18 June 2003 - 06:58 AM

DREW! You're doing it again!  Neat trick! How do you do it? :)

(Rov...come look! Drew's cloning again!)

Een Draght Mackt Maght


#60 prolog

prolog

    The Merry Programmer

  • Islander
  • 1,062 posts

Posted 18 June 2003 - 07:03 AM

Bossy, on Jun 17 2003, 04:46 PM, said:

I would take that a step further. According to a large portion of our society, abortion is a perfectly acceptable means of terminating an unwanted pregnancy. So, if its alright to kill a baby just before its born, its alright to kill a baby just after its born. What difference does a couple of days make.
You're right - a few days doesn't make a difference.  I consider myself a pro-choice-r, and I find late-term abortions absolutely ghastly.  At that point, the child is actually a baby, and it's murder.   But a week or two in, when it's little more than a little unfeeling clump of cells, I don't consider it to be fully "alive" yet, and only then do I support the right of the couple to choose abortion.



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Wisconsin, Infanticide, Crime

0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users