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2 genes found to switch on and off fat storing in the body

Medical Research Fat genes 2007

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#1 WildChildCait

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Posted 18 December 2007 - 08:37 PM

http://news.bbc.co.u...lth/7144908.stm

Way cells store fat is uncovered
Fat stores in a cell
Fat is stored in droplets within cells
US scientists have discovered how fat is stored in the body's cells - promising new treatments for obesity.

They have uncovered the two genes which control the packaging of fat inside a layer of phospholipids and proteins to form liquid droplets.

The process is thought to be crucial for enabling cells to use fat as an energy source, but if too much fat is stored obesity results.
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#2 Cheile

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Posted 19 December 2007 - 01:15 AM

good....maybe now they'll shove the "fat and lazy" label into the garbage where it belongs.

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#3 Palisades

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Posted 19 December 2007 - 05:30 AM

My reading of the article is that (virtually) all humans, regardless of how fat or slim, have the two genes in question active. It's not like people who exercise 45 minutes a day and eat healthy, calorie-conscious diets are slim because they have these two genes inactive.

When I fall off the wagon, I gain weight. When I get back on, it starts coming off again.

It's only fairly recently that people except the richest had all the food they could want. There's little evolutionary pressure towards not storing excess calories when they're available because having to go without food was quite common until relatively recently while having access to too much food was rare.

However, if you want to believe that some people are just hard-luck cases and would be fat even if they exercised frequently and ate a proper diet, you'll likely find a way to talk yourselves into believing it. Yes, a small minority of people have an extraordinarily fast metabolism (which is controlled by something different than the two genes discussed in this article) and can get away with abusing their bodies while they're young, but if they keep doing it, it will catch up to them as middle age approaches.
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#4 Balderdash

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Posted 19 December 2007 - 09:28 AM

View PostSolar Wind, on Dec 19 2007, 03:30 AM, said:

My reading of the article is that (virtually) all humans, regardless of how fat or slim, have the two genes in question active. It's not like people who exercise 45 minutes a day and eat healthy, calorie-conscious diets are slim because they have these two genes inactive.

When I fall off the wagon, I gain weight. When I get back on, it starts coming off again.

It's only fairly recently that people except the richest had all the food they could want. There's little evolutionary pressure towards not storing excess calories when they're available because having to go without food was quite common until relatively recently while having access to too much food was rare.

However, if you want to believe that some people are just hard-luck cases and would be fat even if they exercised frequently and ate a proper diet, you'll likely find a way to talk yourselves into believing it. Yes, a small minority of people have an extraordinarily fast metabolism (which is controlled by something different than the two genes discussed in this article) and can get away with abusing their bodies while they're young, but if they keep doing it, it will catch up to them as middle age approaches.


If only the world were as black and white as you see it.  :sarcasm:  If we all followed your strict example in everything from health care to finances do you really think that we'd all be the same?  I know people that are on diets constantly, always, never a moment when they are not dieting and they are still over weight.  We are not all the same there are so many varibles that go into how our bodies function, heredity just to mention one big one.

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#5 Palisades

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Posted 19 December 2007 - 11:17 AM

View PostBalderdash, on Dec 19 2007, 09:28 AM, said:

If only the world were as black and white as you see it.  :sarcasm:  If we all followed your strict example in everything from health care to finances do you really think that we'd all be the same?  I know people that are on diets constantly, always, never a moment when they are not dieting and they are still over weight.  We are not all the same there are so many varibles that go into how our bodies function, heredity just to mention one big one.


I recognize there is a spectrum of people and some have naturally faster metabolisms than others (and for you to claim otherwise is indicative of failure to properly read parts of my post that you quoted or of blatant misrepresentation on your part). However, I don't recognize that there are people who can't help being human balloons.

As for people who always diet but are still overweight, people need plenty of aerobic exercise to keep the metabolism high; otherwise, the metabolism of dieters will slow down in response to the fewer available calories, and weight loss will be underwhelming, if it occurs at all. You have to remember how few calories per pound of body weight were consumed by hunters and gatherers scrabbling for termites before agriculture and the raising of farm animals. A typical dieter is likely still feasting in comparison.

If you know anyone who jogs for half an hour every other day (or does more vigorous aerobic exercise), drinks 6+ cups of non-chlorinated water a day, doesn't gorge, eats a high-fiber diet which is no more than half processed foods, consumes at most a moderate amount of processed sugar and minimal artificial sweeteners, eats at least a couple servings of fresh or frozen vegetables per day, and yet still can't keep their waistline from expanding, then you may have a counterexample. Simply cutting out junk food or trying to control calories is a dubious strategy and is unlikely to deliver long-term success in reducing weight and will have only slightly better success at maintaining or restoring health.

Edited by Solar Wind, 19 December 2007 - 11:38 AM.

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#6 Balderdash

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Posted 19 December 2007 - 12:10 PM

View PostSolar Wind, on Dec 19 2007, 09:17 AM, said:

View PostBalderdash, on Dec 19 2007, 09:28 AM, said:

If only the world were as black and white as you see it.  :sarcasm:  If we all followed your strict example in everything from health care to finances do you really think that we'd all be the same?  I know people that are on diets constantly, always, never a moment when they are not dieting and they are still over weight.  We are not all the same there are so many varibles that go into how our bodies function, heredity just to mention one big one.


I recognize there is a spectrum of people and some have naturally faster metabolisms than others (and for you to claim otherwise is indicative of failure to properly read parts of my post that you quoted or of blatant misrepresentation on your part). However, I don't recognize that there are people who can't help being human balloons.

As for people who always diet but are still overweight, people need plenty of aerobic exercise to keep the metabolism high; otherwise, the metabolism of dieters will slow down in response to the fewer available calories, and weight loss will be underwhelming, if it occurs at all. You have to remember how few calories per pound of body weight were consumed by hunters and gatherers scrabbling for termites before agriculture and the raising of farm animals. A typical dieter is likely still feasting in comparison.

If you know anyone who jogs for half an hour every other day (or does more vigorous aerobic exercise), drinks 6+ cups of non-chlorinated water a day, doesn't gorge, eats a high-fiber diet which is no more than half processed foods, consumes at most a moderate amount of processed sugar and minimal artificial sweeteners, eats at least a couple servings of fresh or frozen vegetables per day, and yet still can't keep their waistline from expanding, then you may have a counterexample. Simply cutting out junk food or trying to control calories is a dubious strategy and is unlikely to deliver long-term success in reducing weight and will have only slightly better success at maintaining or restoring health.

I shouldn't have responded to your post at all, it's incredibly harsh and narrow minded.  And the bolded part of your post doesn't seem to relate to anything that I posted in response. :unsure:  So carry on, I'm sure that your posts will garner you much admiration and affection.  :dontgetit:

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#7 Palisades

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Posted 19 December 2007 - 12:22 PM

Balderdash said:

the bolded part of your post doesn't seem to relate to anything that I posted in response.
You don't see how "a spectrum" relates to not "black and white"?

Quote

I'm sure that your posts will garner you much admiration and affection.
I'm aware that some people would rather whine and feel sorry for themselves than do something proactive about their problem.
"When the Fed is the bartender everybody drinks until they fall down." —Paul McCulley

"In truth, 'too big to fail' is not the worst thing we should fear – our financial institutions are now on their way to becoming 'too big to save'." —Simon Johnson

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#8 Balderdash

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Posted 19 December 2007 - 01:21 PM

View PostSolar Wind, on Dec 19 2007, 10:22 AM, said:

Balderdash said:

the bolded part of your post doesn't seem to relate to anything that I posted in response.
You don't see how "a spectrum" relates to not "black and white"?


The word "spectrum" came in your post following mine mentioning "black and white."  There was no "spectrum" in your initial post.

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#9 QueenTiye

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Posted 19 December 2007 - 01:45 PM

View PostSolar Wind, on Dec 19 2007, 12:22 PM, said:

I'm aware that some people would rather whine and feel sorry for themselves than do something proactive about their problem.

While I believe it is ultimately true that people with problems such as obesity (maybe especially obesity) do have to act proactively to aid their own causes - the fact is that it isn't quite as simple as it sounds.  Even taking into account hard work and effort doesn't take into account emotional difficulties with the task, including the fact that your body fights you on the issue (drastic change in body shape brings about scary body image issues, but also, diet changes lead to chemical changes in the body that produce mood swings and the like).  In the case of drugs and alcohol, withdrawal is difficult but in some ways easier, too... you can go cold turkey. With food - you cannot. You have to force a moderated diet on yourself, rather than just go without eating.


View PostBalderdash, on Dec 19 2007, 01:21 PM, said:

View PostSolar Wind, on Dec 19 2007, 10:22 AM, said:

Balderdash said:

the bolded part of your post doesn't seem to relate to anything that I posted in response.
You don't see how "a spectrum" relates to not "black and white"?


The word "spectrum" came in your post following mine mentioning "black and white."  There was no "spectrum" in your initial post.

Which was what you asked about.  You asked  him what his post had to do with your response.

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#10 Balderdash

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Posted 19 December 2007 - 03:01 PM

View PostQueenTiye, on Dec 19 2007, 11:45 AM, said:

View PostSolar Wind, on Dec 19 2007, 12:22 PM, said:

I'm aware that some people would rather whine and feel sorry for themselves than do something proactive about their problem.

While I believe it is ultimately true that people with problems such as obesity (maybe especially obesity) do have to act proactively to aid their own causes - the fact is that it isn't quite as simple as it sounds.  Even taking into account hard work and effort doesn't take into account emotional difficulties with the task, including the fact that your body fights you on the issue (drastic change in body shape brings about scary body image issues, but also, diet changes lead to chemical changes in the body that produce mood swings and the like).  In the case of drugs and alcohol, withdrawal is difficult but in some ways easier, too... you can go cold turkey. With food - you cannot. You have to force a moderated diet on yourself, rather than just go without eating.


View PostBalderdash, on Dec 19 2007, 01:21 PM, said:

View PostSolar Wind, on Dec 19 2007, 10:22 AM, said:

Balderdash said:

the bolded part of your post doesn't seem to relate to anything that I posted in response.
You don't see how "a spectrum" relates to not "black and white"?


The word "spectrum" came in your post following mine mentioning "black and white."  There was no "spectrum" in your initial post.

Which was what you asked about.  You asked  him what his post had to do with your response.

QT

I really don't want to belabor the issue but his realizing that there is a "spectrum", which is nice, here is my issue from his answering post: "I recognize there is a spectrum of people and some have naturally faster metabolisms than others (and for you to claim otherwise is indicative of failure to properly read parts of my post that you quoted or of blatant misrepresentation on your part). However, I don't recognize that there are people who can't help being human balloons."

I didn't claim anything, I read and then reread his post several times, I didn't miss anything or misrepresent anything either.  And referring to people as "human balloons" is just flat out mean and disrespectful to people that we don't know why they are overweight.  I've known too many people with weight problems that tried so hard and had to live around people that referred to them as "human balloons" or worse when in real life there are many issues surrounding weight problems, as you pointed out.  Do we really have to refer to people with weight issues as "human balloons"?  :headshake:

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#11 QueenTiye

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Posted 19 December 2007 - 03:46 PM

Ah.  Thanks for clarifying.  I see your point now.  If I may intervene, I believe Solar Wind objected to your characterization of his views as a "black & white" viewpoint.

(I agree too that calling obese people "human balloons" is mean.)

But, to get back to the issues - what are the shades of gray you feel are being overlooked? I think I named a couple in my post.

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#12 Balderdash

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Posted 19 December 2007 - 04:04 PM

View PostQueenTiye, on Dec 19 2007, 01:46 PM, said:

Ah. Thanks for clarifying. I see your point now. If I may intervene, I believe Solar Wind objected to your characterization of his views as a "black & white" viewpoint.

(I agree too that calling obese people "human balloons" is mean.)

But, to get back to the issues - what are the shades of gray you feel are being overlooked? I think I named a couple in my post.

QT


I'm sorry if Solar Wind objected to his views being termed "black and white" but I didn't find any shades of gray or empathy for that matter.  It seems (to me) that his views are based soley on his experience and what he gleans from what he reads but clearly he needs to read some more and perhaps listen to what is being said by others who have lived an issue.  I was really trying to make this about the post not the poster but I think I've failed.  :unsure:

You actually named some really important (again, in my opinion) shades of gray.  How a person feels about themselves is important because being called a "human balloon" can cause a person to feel pretty rotten and eventually lead to depression.  People have all sorts of issues like slow metabolism or glands that don't function properly because of genetics, not because they are "gorging" themselves.  Not that there aren't people who do overeat with great delight but I know too many people that worry about this single issue so much that it harms them and makes weight loss hard to do.  There are a lot of people who are so depressed that they eat to fill a void where self love should be and they hate themselves for it and then have to eat again to fill the void and so on and on...

Any good news for people who struggle with weight issues should be welcomed but that's just me.

Edited by Balderdash, 19 December 2007 - 04:06 PM.

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#13 Kosh

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Posted 19 December 2007 - 05:00 PM

My experence has been that if you eat less, you lose weight, and if you eat more, you gain weight. It's far more abvout self control then anything else.
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#14 Themis

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Posted 19 December 2007 - 05:47 PM

View PostKosh, on Dec 19 2007, 10:00 PM, said:

My experence has been that if you eat less, you lose weight, and if you eat more, you gain weight. It's far more abvout self control then anything else.

If you eat more and exercise more you can lose weight; if you eat less and exercise less, you can gain weight.  I lost 15 pounds once painting my new house and I was probably eating more because the exercise made me hungry!  

It is about self control, but there are many factors outside of the individual's influence which make that self control so very, very difficult.  Including having the self control to make yourself exercise.
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#15 Pywacket

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Posted 19 December 2007 - 05:57 PM

View PostKosh, on Dec 19 2007, 02:00 PM, said:

My experence has been that if you eat less, you lose weight, and if you eat more, you gain weight. It's far more abvout self control then anything else.
As long as you have a normally functioning thyroid that may well be true.  Unfortunately not all of us do and no matter how much we exercise or control our portions or drink enough water, we cannot lose weight.  Once the thyroid issue is resolved, many do begin to experience a normal metabolism.

While weight gain and loss is partially a physical problem, I would also argue that there is also an emotional and mental component which have a direct effect on the ability to be able to lose weight and sustain a more healthy weight.

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#16 scherzo

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Posted 19 December 2007 - 06:08 PM

It always makes folks nervous when someone suggests they take personal responsibility for their circumstances. I think what Solar Wind wrote makes perfect sense, and reflects not a lack of "empathy", but rather a clear understanding of both the science and psychology of this issue.

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#17 SparkyCola

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Posted 19 December 2007 - 06:19 PM

I agree scherzo, tbh... I agree with SW's posts - I personally didn't read them as anything other than calm and rational, but on the internet people take things in different ways.

I don't think SW said anything especially inflammatory myself - except for the human balloon comment, but even then I don't think SW meant it the way it was taken.

Oh well. I agree with Solar Wind, Kosh, Themis and Pywacket.

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Edited by SparkyCola, 19 December 2007 - 06:21 PM.

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#18 WildChildCait

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Posted 19 December 2007 - 06:25 PM

you don't think 'human balloons is inflamatory? If that's not inflamatory I don't know what is.

Oh, and for hte record Solar Wind? Yes I can give you such an example.

But I doubt you'd listen to a 'human balloon'

And on that note...i'm logging off exisle for a while, as I don't post here to be insulted.

Edited by WildChildCait, 19 December 2007 - 06:26 PM.

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#19 FlatlandDan

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Posted 19 December 2007 - 06:28 PM

I've found the easiest way to maintain my weight (since I'm rather alright with it) is to take a moment and decide if I'm hungry or thirsty before I eat.  Most of the time, I find I'm thirsty.  I work in a warm room and get dehydrated easily.  

Sadly, it took a nasty bought of salmonella to get my weight down to this level.
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#20 SparkyCola

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Posted 19 December 2007 - 06:45 PM

Quote

except for the human balloon comment,

I did say *except for* that. I took it to mean something a little more hypothetical, on first reading-  but I agree that it is a comment in extremely poor taste and unnecessarily rude. {{{{{{{{{{Cait}}}}}}}}}}}

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