Jump to content


Getting an "Insecure Connection" warning for Exisle? No worry

Details in this thread

Heath Ledger dies age 28

Obituaries Heath Ledger Actor 2008

  • Please log in to reply
98 replies to this topic

#41 SparkyCola

SparkyCola
  • Islander
  • 14,904 posts

Posted 24 January 2008 - 05:36 PM

Ya know what? I understand that it's their opinion. that's fine. What it is is this:

They think that expressing their opinion (and nevermind for the moment that it is a bigoted and stupid and ugly opinion, nvm that) - they think that expressing their personal view is MORE IMPORTANT than giving even the most basic level of freakin' RESPECT to the family and friends who just lost a 28 year old son/brother/friend. WTF? WTF is that about? It doesn't take much. Only the most VERY basic level of common courtesy, common compassion and understanding.

There is a time and a place for "expressing your opinion". They live in the USA. They have AMPLE opportunity to do so pretty much any time they please. And yet. They SOMEHOW in their stupid little minds think that it is appropriate to picket at a funeral.

And I'm not just talking about Heath Ledger - I mean all those they have picketed the funerals of.

And we're doing it here too. This thread has become about homosexuality and politics and stupid bigoted stupid narrow minded hypocrites - even people sniping at each other and bringing in all kinds of other topics - when it should be a celebration of the life of this young and talented actor, and a way to express our sorrow.

Just wtf is wrong with those people? Have they NO sense of compassion or propriety or decency in them at ALL?

Those people are deeply misguided. I mean, very very deeply. And that's why they deserve our pity.

Sparky
Able to entertain a thought without taking it home to meet the parents

#42 G1223

G1223

    The Blunt Object.

  • Dead account
  • 16,164 posts

Posted 24 January 2008 - 05:53 PM

View PostenTranced, on Jan 24 2008, 03:09 PM, said:

View PostG1223, on Jan 24 2008, 07:16 PM, said:

View PostRunaway Train, on Jan 24 2008, 01:08 PM, said:

Why is homosexuality their holy grail issue?

Because they see it as wrong. Maybe because you can find other folks who will agree with them on the others is the reason those other sins are not as loudly talked about.

You know like we all say child molestation is wrong why preach to the chior when there is much that needs to be said. In their opinion.

Way to link homosexuality with child molestation. :barf:

Well done.

Time of thread death : 8:10 : ExIsle Time.

enTranced


You ask why some churches look at homosexulaity as if it's a holy grail of things to speak out about. I gave you ananswer. I comment that we all look  child molsters as that side of evil.  These people could speak out about them. But why? We all are there about it being an evil act and want it punished. So why talk about it. Hence the comment preaching to the chior.

These people see homosexuality as a sin. They see our country pandering to a sinful act.  Our Government as condoning it and in some cases blessing it. And it happens to be their government as well. They are expect to pay taxes which will go to programs which try to say the homosexuality is OK. Then they turn back to their book of faith and it says that it is not.


Now we have for the most part made our minds up about that issues and decided that a 2,000 year old book (More or less older)has some merits we need to learn but it is not totally right as it comes to tody's issues.  These people feel we made the wrong choice. They are using all legal means to bring that message to us.

I do not agree with them but I do see where they are comming from. And the clock is still running on how long it will take for us to get a clue or them. I really do not care as the issue does not effect me. I do sex homosexuality as being abnormal. And a sin. But I also do not think it fair to be throwing stones at the people who are that way.

If it is a sin then God will take care of it when he is ready. It does not effect me so I leave it to him. If I am wrong then he will still take care of it when he is ready.

I as a voter want this to be decided at a ballot box as it will show to us all how we have grown in acceptance. Rather than a court ruling done by judges who were appointed and will never see a ballot box. That is why I supported the New Jeresy statehouse who passed a allow allowing for civil unions.

Why because they are the voted in represenatives of the people. I would support this being a issues for ballots because it lets the people speak. Win or lose on the issue it lets the people speak about what they will support. Sorry but is how things should work in this country on national issues.

Yeah it might mean we are a group of only land owning white men who paid a vote tax. But if folks really think that is what would have happened I will only say look at the history of this country. It will go on only as long as the people allow it.

And yes they will get it wrong but that is how we learn to fix problems. If you do not know where it's broken you cannot fix it.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#43 SparkyCola

SparkyCola
  • Islander
  • 14,904 posts

Posted 24 January 2008 - 06:18 PM

Quote

I do not agree with them but I do see where they are comming from. And the clock is still running on how long it will take for us to get a clue or them. I really do not care as the issue does not effect me. I do sex homosexuality as being abnormal. And a sin. But I also do not think it fair to be throwing stones at the people who are that way.

Well, I appreciate your efforts in conveying their point of view. Seriously, I think you've done a good job on that. In fact, apart from a few bits I didn't understand, I thought that was generally a good post.

But your comment above demonstrates my point as well. You think that homosexuality is a sin. You're entitled to that opinion. But you have enough decency to see that there are things more important in this world than that -like the common decency required not to want to picket someone's funeral.

Sparky
Able to entertain a thought without taking it home to meet the parents

#44 scherzo

scherzo

    I know things

  • Islander
  • 3,388 posts

Posted 24 January 2008 - 06:31 PM

The problem with the Westboro Baptists is, they're such spectacular douchebags, the only message they ever manage to convey is how much they need a comprehensive a$$ kicking. Anyone even remotely inclined to listen to their story, ends up turned off by their cartoonish stupidity. Someone needs to inform Phelps there's no real mileage in being aggressively obnoxious unless you're looking for a radio shock jock gig.

-scherzo
"Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so."    -Ronald Reagan, October 27 1964
Posted Image

#45 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

  • Islander
  • 9,215 posts

Posted 24 January 2008 - 09:55 PM

View PostG1223, on Jan 24 2008, 05:53 PM, said:

You ask why some churches look at homosexulaity as if it's a holy grail of things to speak out about. I gave you ananswer. I comment that we all look  child molsters as that side of evil.  These people could speak out about them. But why? We all are there about it being an evil act and want it punished. So why talk about it. Hence the comment preaching to the chior.

These people see homosexuality as a sin. They see our country pandering to a sinful act.  Our Government as condoning it and in some cases blessing it. And it happens to be their government as well. They are expect to pay taxes which will go to programs which try to say the homosexuality is OK. Then they turn back to their book of faith and it says that it is not.

Yeah, probably 99% of the population agrees on pedophelia (sp?), as they would probably on various child abuses

Maybe they are trying to spread their message about homosexuality as the percentage is much lower... but what I find convenient about them attacking homosexuality is the number of people who do it compared to other sins which are much more common.
Homosexuals, supposively, represent 10 % of our society.
How about the much more wide spread sins? Lying. Adultery. Greed. And thats a short list.
Whether people are in high agreement or not... its so common and widespread, why don't they speak out about those more? Or would that require too much introspection.
Homosexuality is a convenient target, as its abortion. It isn't in their lives usually, at least not knowingly. And it gives a group to target that one can kid themselves doesn't include any of their own, especially themselves.
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#46 Hibblette

Hibblette
  • Islander
  • 4,228 posts

Posted 25 January 2008 - 01:11 AM

View PostG1223, on Jan 24 2008, 09:55 AM, said:

View PostGodeskian, on Jan 23 2008, 08:03 PM, said:

Just proves there's no real justice in the world when Heath Ledger dies and the WBC gets to keep on going.


Then go kill them. End their freedom of speech. Only allow those ideas you want expressed to be expressed. Or deal with the fact that the world is not just what you want it to be. Pick one please. And do it now.

I know. I deal with folks who think the worse that should happen to a HIV giving man is he be sued for his actions. I deal with a world where a 10yr old girl is raped and a judge lets the rapist walk.

Justice? There is no crime being commited by WBC. If there is punish them. But stop acting like your is the only point of view that has a right to be expressed.

This is why I loath the liberal/progressive "we want freedom to express but trod down on those we dislike getting the same rights." behavior I see here and know I will see again.

Freedom of Speech?

Then my father (who is a God fearing gun toting Veteran) would tell you his Freedom of Speech would mean taking the brunt of his rifle and slamming it into this a-holes face.  It's an expression of what he thinks of this mans beliefs.  Shall we debate this?

There is also freedom to mourn the loss of one and the privacy that those who mourn should be given.

Freedom of Speech does not mean potential incitement of a riot.  And this is actually what the good reverend would like to have happen.  Just for the attention.
"There are many ways of going forward, but there is only one way of standing still."  FDR explaining why Liberals are so often divided and Conservatives are so often united.

"I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat."  Will Rogers

#47 Annibal

Annibal
  • Islander
  • 3,036 posts

Posted 25 January 2008 - 02:10 AM

If people like Phelps are going to heaven, and people like Heath Ledger, US soldiers, and other awesome people are going to hell...guess where I'd rather go? I dunno. Hell's supposed to be torture, but that heaven sounds like an eternity of agony.

Extremist groups only serve to push people like me, who aren't religious but aren't really atheists, as far from the religion they endorse as we can get. If I had a choice between shaking that guys hand and gnawing my hand off at the wrist, I'd become left-handed.

Can we protest at their church? Or protest them at their protests? Do people protest protests with protesting? Er....
"A song for a heart so big, god wouldn't let it live. May angels lead you in. Hear you me my friends.
On sleepless roads the sleepless go.
May angels lead you in."

Blue skies, Alex.


My Deviantart page!
My Films and Animations!

#48 Zwolf

Zwolf
  • Islander
  • 3,683 posts

Posted 25 January 2008 - 09:09 AM

Meanwhile in religious news... this is pretty cool.  See, they're not all like Phelps...

Cheers,

Zwolf
"I've moved on and I'm feeling fine
And I'll feel even better
When your life has nothing to do with mine."
-Pittbull, "No Love Lost"

"There are things that I'd like to say
But I'm never talking to you again
There's things I'd like to phrase some way
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'd put you down where you belong
But I'm never talking to you again
I'd show you everywhere you're wrong
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you."
- Husker Du, "Never Talking To You Again"

#49 Annibal

Annibal
  • Islander
  • 3,036 posts

Posted 25 January 2008 - 09:20 AM

That's a relief, Zwolf. I hear so much bad stuff about christianity, and feel bad stuff about it, too. It's nice to not hate something some of them do.

In other news, when i clicked the link I missread it and thought it said BEST SELLING CHILDREN instead of BEST SELLING CHRISTIANS for a second. ;;^^
"A song for a heart so big, god wouldn't let it live. May angels lead you in. Hear you me my friends.
On sleepless roads the sleepless go.
May angels lead you in."

Blue skies, Alex.


My Deviantart page!
My Films and Animations!

#50 SparkyCola

SparkyCola
  • Islander
  • 14,904 posts

Posted 25 January 2008 - 11:06 AM

Annibal: How about this for more likeable Christianity which is actually ( *shock* ) ... Christian.

Sparky
Able to entertain a thought without taking it home to meet the parents

#51 Bad Wolf

Bad Wolf

    Luck is when opportunity meets preparation

  • Islander
  • 38,881 posts

Posted 25 January 2008 - 12:02 PM

View PostSparkyCola, on Jan 24 2008, 02:36 PM, said:

Just wtf is wrong with those people? Have they NO sense of compassion or propriety or decency in them at ALL?

No they don't.

But they're still allowed to picket (albeit not if it's going to cause an unsafe situation).   Damn them.
Posted Image

#52 Lord of the Sword

Lord of the Sword
  • Islander
  • 15,681 posts

Posted 25 January 2008 - 12:43 PM

View PostGodeskian, on Jan 23 2008, 08:03 PM, said:

Then go kill them. End their freedom of speech. Only allow those ideas you want expressed to be expressed. Or deal with the fact that the world is not just what you want it to be. Pick one please. And do it now.

I know. I deal with folks who think the worse that should happen to a HIV giving man is he be sued for his actions. I deal with a world where a 10yr old girl is raped and a judge lets the rapist walk.

Justice? There is no crime being commited by WBC. If there is punish them. But stop acting like your is the only point of view that has a right to be expressed.

This is why I loath the liberal/progressive "we want freedom to express but trod down on those we dislike getting the same rights." behavior I see here and know I will see again.

I have no problem, whatsoever, with them expressing themselves. If they want to spew forth their bigotry and hate, that's their right...But IMO their right ends when it infringes on others right to mourn the loss of a friend, loved one, what not...In short, protesting at a funeral is wrong...don't care who you are.

For example. I can't stand child molestors. Don't see much need for them, and if they all died...I wouldn't lose a moments sleep over it. But if a known child molestor died, I would NOT show up at the funeral of the child molestor saying "It is good that a child molestor is dead." There is such a thing as respect for the family.

But that's just me.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#53 Annibal

Annibal
  • Islander
  • 3,036 posts

Posted 25 January 2008 - 12:48 PM

I second what LotS said. Plus, if I saw them, I would have no problem serving a bit of time or whatever for assault, as long as I could deck that guy.

Or I would induce vomit and spew chunks all over his face to show my support for his cause.
"A song for a heart so big, god wouldn't let it live. May angels lead you in. Hear you me my friends.
On sleepless roads the sleepless go.
May angels lead you in."

Blue skies, Alex.


My Deviantart page!
My Films and Animations!

#54 enTranced

enTranced

    Chasing Your Starlight!

  • Islander
  • 15,772 posts

Posted 25 January 2008 - 01:14 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on Jan 25 2008, 05:43 PM, said:

View PostGodeskian, on Jan 23 2008, 08:03 PM, said:

Then go kill them. End their freedom of speech. Only allow those ideas you want expressed to be expressed. Or deal with the fact that the world is not just what you want it to be. Pick one please. And do it now.

I know. I deal with folks who think the worse that should happen to a HIV giving man is he be sued for his actions. I deal with a world where a 10yr old girl is raped and a judge lets the rapist walk.

Justice? There is no crime being commited by WBC. If there is punish them. But stop acting like your is the only point of view that has a right to be expressed.

This is why I loath the liberal/progressive "we want freedom to express but trod down on those we dislike getting the same rights." behavior I see here and know I will see again.

I have no problem, whatsoever, with them expressing themselves. If they want to spew forth their bigotry and hate, that's their right...But IMO their right ends when it infringes on others right to mourn the loss of a friend, loved one, what not...In short, protesting at a funeral is wrong...don't care who you are.

For example. I can't stand child molestors. Don't see much need for them, and if they all died...I wouldn't lose a moments sleep over it. But if a known child molestor died, I would NOT show up at the funeral of the child molestor saying "It is good that a child molestor is dead." There is such a thing as respect for the family.

But that's just me.

Did we lose a post? I didn't see Gode's post anywhere else?

Anyway to further LoT's comments :

There is free speech and there is being a dumbass.

Sure they can spew all the hate their black empty hearts desire but there right of free speech does not protect them from me punching them in their bigoted nose.

There is also the fact that they tend to throw their little circus at funerals which is supposed to be a solemn place of reflection.

Quote

This is why I loath the liberal/progressive "we want freedom to express but trod down on those we dislike getting the same rights." behavior I see here and know I will see again.

Isn't this from G's post?

Anyway it's still a foolish comment. Damn those librul's for wanting Leager's family to say goodbye to their son with some kind of dignity. Again we lack enough  :rolleyes: icons.

enTranced

Edited by enTranced, 25 January 2008 - 01:15 PM.

Posted Image

#55 G1223

G1223

    The Blunt Object.

  • Dead account
  • 16,164 posts

Posted 25 January 2008 - 01:19 PM

Being a dumbass is protected by the constitution. Trying to start a riot is not. But people are allowed to express themselves even at funerals. It is not a good thing to do but with omlettes you sometimes get egg shell.

Unless there is a law in place (Phelps actions has caused a number of states to enact such laws) then protests at funerals are allowed. It is the price paid.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#56 Bad Wolf

Bad Wolf

    Luck is when opportunity meets preparation

  • Islander
  • 38,881 posts

Posted 25 January 2008 - 02:24 PM

^

This is me.  Agreeing with G.  On a political issue.

:eek3: :eek3:
Posted Image

#57 Hibblette

Hibblette
  • Islander
  • 4,228 posts

Posted 25 January 2008 - 03:21 PM

Quote

Being a dumbass is protected by the constitution. Trying to start a riot is not. But people are allowed to express themselves even at funerals. It is not a good thing to do but with omlettes you sometimes get egg shell.

Okay this is not directed at G necessarily it's just I'm going to express my opinion about this statement that has been used by so many people thinking they are saying something wise.  Jane Fonda used it back in the day when she was trying to explain her stupidity.

That has got to be the stupidest analogy that has ever been used is the ol' "we are making an omelette here and ya gotta crack some eggs.  You might even get eggshells in it"  Freedom is not an omelette, nor is life.

Yes...they have the right to do what they're doing.  But you know what someone else has the right to get in their face and tell them what they think.  So then someone else will take offense to that and before you know what a fist will fly.

There is also this to think about...when these people do this they are infringing on the party that is in mourning.  It is their event.  Of course this is the same mentality of the white supremests who show up at MLK parades and march with their hoods on.

Phelps is not christian.  He is the anti Christian.  He is a wolf in sheep's clothing.
"There are many ways of going forward, but there is only one way of standing still."  FDR explaining why Liberals are so often divided and Conservatives are so often united.

"I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat."  Will Rogers

#58 Bad Wolf

Bad Wolf

    Luck is when opportunity meets preparation

  • Islander
  • 38,881 posts

Posted 25 January 2008 - 03:37 PM

View PostHibblette, on Jan 25 2008, 12:21 PM, said:

Yes...they have the right to do what they're doing.  But you know what someone else has the right to get in their face and tell them what they think.  So then someone else will take offense to that and before you know what a fist will fly.

You're absolutely right.  But unless a demonstrable threat of violence is present they have a right to march.  JUST like the KKK in Skokie, and for the exact same reasons.

Quote

There is also this to think about...when these people do this they are infringing on the party that is in mourning.  It is their event.  Of course this is the same mentality of the white supremests who show up at MLK parades and march with their hoods on.

The KKK in skokie wanted to march in a Jewish neighborhood.  Their purpose was hate mongering.  And unless there's going to be a ban on ANY kind of demonstration at the funeral (a scenario I highly doubt), they can't keep Phelps out just on the basis of the content of his speech any more than they could prevent the march in skokie based on the content of that speech.  Now if there's a rule about trespassing or something that is uniformly enforced then that's a different story.  But at the funeral of a public figure like this I expect the press to be all over it.  And I know they'd squawk if someone tried to keep them out.

We start pre-emptively telling people what they can say because we don't like their politics it opens the door for someone to pre-emptively tell US what we can say because they don't like OUR politics.  G's point is that one price of freedom is the allowance of unpopular speech (with limits such as inciting riot or the like).  And he's absolutely right.

Quote

Phelps is not christian.  He is the anti Christian.  He is a wolf in sheep's clothing.

I don't think we ought to insult wolves by comparing them to this poor excuse for humanity.  He's a hate monger and he sullies the name of Christianity by claiming he is one.

Edited to add that there's also the precedent already set by that idiotic case where a jury awarded millions in punitive damages for "invasion of privacy" to that family of the g.i.  So maybe that will act as a deterrent (though like I said, that decision was idiotic -in my not so humble opinion of course-)

Lil

Edited by Bad Wolf, 25 January 2008 - 03:43 PM.

Posted Image

#59 Lord of the Sword

Lord of the Sword
  • Islander
  • 15,681 posts

Posted 25 January 2008 - 03:59 PM

View PostBad Wolf, on Jan 25 2008, 03:37 PM, said:

We start pre-emptively telling people what they can say because we don't like their politics it opens the door for someone to pre-emptively tell US what we can say because they don't like OUR politics.  G's point is that one price of freedom is the allowance of unpopular speech (with limits such as inciting riot or the like).  And he's absolutely right.

Lil

And showing up at a funeral and protesting, calling the deceased hateful names, saying it is a good thing they are dead, is the fastest way I can think of to start a riot.

Same thing at the funeral for fallen soldiers, and those people that want to protest at the fallen soldiers' funerals....Yeah, they have that right...But just don't be surprised if you piss off the soldiers doing the 21 gun salute...and doing so, don't complain if they happen to lower their guns during that salute and the bullets happen to come very close to your head.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again...I don't care who it is...protesting at a funeral is WRONG!

Or do you think the KKK should've been allowed to protest at the funeral of Rosa Parks?
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#60 Bad Wolf

Bad Wolf

    Luck is when opportunity meets preparation

  • Islander
  • 38,881 posts

Posted 25 January 2008 - 04:03 PM

^To answer your question.

If OTHER demonstrations were allowable, then, absent a demonstrated threat of violence, and assuming there were no trespass issues, YES.

If there was a rule that said to everyone "keep out except for the family" or "no public assembly of any kind" then NO.

The issue is banning the speech based on content, regardless of whether I personally like the content.

Lil
Posted Image



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Obituaries, Heath Ledger, Actor, 2008

0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users