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Heath Ledger dies age 28

Obituaries Heath Ledger Actor 2008

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#61 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 25 January 2008 - 04:51 PM

View PostBad Wolf, on Jan 25 2008, 04:03 PM, said:

^To answer your question.

If OTHER demonstrations were allowable, then, absent a demonstrated threat of violence, and assuming there were no trespass issues, YES.

If there was a rule that said to everyone "keep out except for the family" or "no public assembly of any kind" then NO.

The issue is banning the speech based on content, regardless of whether I personally like the content.

Lil

Well if a demonstrated threat of violence is the mourners warning the city that if said protest group shows up, then there WILL BE violence...that's fine with me.

See, here's the kicker about free speech...It has limits. You can't stand in a crowded theather and yell "Fire!" And IMO, that is exactly what protesting a a funeral is doing.
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#62 SparkyCola

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Posted 25 January 2008 - 04:54 PM

I think that protesting at a funeral should be considered harassment.

The only solace is that this is not Heath Ledger's actual funeral, but a memorial service. Nevertheless I think it is despicable behaviour, compounded by the pathetic effort to define themselves as something they are impossibly far from - "Christian".

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#63 Hibblette

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Posted 25 January 2008 - 07:37 PM

View PostBad Wolf, on Jan 25 2008, 02:37 PM, said:

View PostHibblette, on Jan 25 2008, 12:21 PM, said:

Yes...they have the right to do what they're doing.  But you know what someone else has the right to get in their face and tell them what they think.  So then someone else will take offense to that and before you know what a fist will fly.

You're absolutely right.  But unless a demonstrable threat of violence is present they have a right to march.  JUST like the KKK in Skokie, and for the exact same reasons.

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There is also this to think about...when these people do this they are infringing on the party that is in mourning.  It is their event.  Of course this is the same mentality of the white supremests who show up at MLK parades and march with their hoods on.

The KKK in skokie wanted to march in a Jewish neighborhood.  Their purpose was hate mongering.  And unless there's going to be a ban on ANY kind of demonstration at the funeral (a scenario I highly doubt), they can't keep Phelps out just on the basis of the content of his speech any more than they could prevent the march in skokie based on the content of that speech.  Now if there's a rule about trespassing or something that is uniformly enforced then that's a different story.  But at the funeral of a public figure like this I expect the press to be all over it.  And I know they'd squawk if someone tried to keep them out.

We start pre-emptively telling people what they can say because we don't like their politics it opens the door for someone to pre-emptively tell US what we can say because they don't like OUR politics.  G's point is that one price of freedom is the allowance of unpopular speech (with limits such as inciting riot or the like).  And he's absolutely right.

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Phelps is not christian.  He is the anti Christian.  He is a wolf in sheep's clothing.

I don't think we ought to insult wolves by comparing them to this poor excuse for humanity.  He's a hate monger and he sullies the name of Christianity by claiming he is one.

Edited to add that there's also the precedent already set by that idiotic case where a jury awarded millions in punitive damages for "invasion of privacy" to that family of the g.i.  So maybe that will act as a deterrent (though like I said, that decision was idiotic -in my not so humble opinion of course-)

Lil

See-in my opinion, the way to stop it is to be confrontational.

People like Phelps would slink off to the hole they came out of if people would stand up to him.

And why not?  In my opinion, the funeral would be ruined-might as well face the dirty little toad.  And I'm not talking about shouting, yelling or fisticuffs-I'm talking about discussing with the bible in hand and addressing what they are protesting about.

But see I would never be given this opportunity because his bunch would know better then to take a family on like mine.  We do not shrink away-we are known for it and you can't tell me that he doesn't assess the situation.

Something that Mr. Phelps is not realizing (along with a few others) People are fast getting to the point of being tired of this BS, and I don't mean they want to take their freedom of speech away, I mean they are going to start answering back.
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#64 Soton

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Posted 25 January 2008 - 08:14 PM

View PostBad Wolf, on Jan 25 2008, 02:24 PM, said:

^

This is me.  Agreeing with G.  On a political issue.

:eek3: :eek3:

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#65 G1223

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Posted 25 January 2008 - 11:45 PM

Except there are some people that protesting even at their funeral is the correct thing to do. Think of the funeral of the guy who set the bomb off in that church that killed those little girls back in civil right march days. There is someone who folks might feel did not deserve to go quiet into that good night. Will unmorned he might be worthy of the ire of a community.  It is sometimes better to speak about a topic rather than dance around the idea of being polite.
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#66 Hibblette

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Posted 26 January 2008 - 01:09 AM

Sorry G-but I think that was wrong to do that protesting at those funerals

I'm not being a hypocrite here like you are trying to paint everyone as in this thread.

You just do not disturb the private goodbye's of the mourners.  Even when they are your enemy.

I'm not even sure if it's a Christian thing on my part...it's actually more of a primitive thing.  I'll admit it.
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#67 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 26 January 2008 - 03:39 AM

View PostG1223, on Jan 25 2008, 11:45 PM, said:

Except there are some people that protesting even at their funeral is the correct thing to do. Think of the funeral of the guy who set the bomb off in that church that killed those little girls back in civil right march days. There is someone who folks might feel did not deserve to go quiet into that good night. Will unmorned he might be worthy of the ire of a community.  It is sometimes better to speak about a topic rather than dance around the idea of being polite.

They can talk about it all they want, they don't have to do it AT the funeral. The ONLY possible reason to do it at the funeral is to piss off the mourners. That is the ONLY reason there can be.

Nobody is stopping these people from saying what they want...just show some respect for the family of the deceased.

Like I said before. I can't stand child molestors...but if one dies I'm not going to go to the funeral saying it is good a child molestor is dead. Only reason for me to do that would be to piss off the family of the molestor....and there really wouldn't be a need to do that. Should I tell them I hate child molestors and am glad one is dead? Perhaps...but I would only do that if asked, and I wouldn't be at the funeral of someone like that for them to ask...
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

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Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

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#68 G1223

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Posted 26 January 2008 - 06:59 AM

That's ypu LotS but unless the laws are in place you have no basis to force others to that frame of behavior.
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#69 Spectacles

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Posted 26 January 2008 - 07:41 AM

Update: John Gibson has apologized for his meanspirited "humorous" remarks on the occasion of Heath Ledger's death. After first sort of defending himself for finding it hard to pass up the opportunity for "a good joke," he read a statement on air apologizing for having offended so many people by trying to get a laugh from bigots and self-righteous "regular" people by whizzing on Ledger's body bag. (My paraphrase.)

Here is his apology:

http://mediamatters....0010?f=h_top</a
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#70 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 26 January 2008 - 12:26 PM

View PostG1223, on Jan 26 2008, 06:59 AM, said:

That's ypu LotS but unless the laws are in place you have no basis to force others to that frame of behavior.

You're right, it is me. And the laws might not be in place, currently. What it will take to get them in place is protestors showing up at funerals, getting their a$$es kicked, before law makers get it through their skulls that allowing people to insult the deceased family while they are mourning their loss isn't a smart idea.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#71 Annibal

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Posted 26 January 2008 - 12:36 PM

Protesting at a funeral is immoral, hideous, and wrong on so many levels.

But it's not against the law.

I agree with Sparky--it SHOULD be considered harassment. They should be able to quickly get restraining orders against people like Phelps, assuming they're aware of the protest beforehand. No coming within 10 miles of the memorial, or service or funeral.

But at present they can't, so I'll just have to be satisfied with imagining Phelps being "accidentally" run over by a hearse.
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#72 Shalamar

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Posted 26 January 2008 - 10:53 PM

G, I am getting very tired of you trying to smear every one who thinks the Phelps and their ilk as abomninations and wrong as being hypocritical liberals. Talk about a broad brush insult...


They have every right to free speech, I will defend that to the death... but there is indeed for every one a time and a place and I certainly would not go and interupt the Westboro Baptist Church's service and tell them what I think of them, so should they refrain from doing it at a funeral. (They weren't invited and there is something called morals/ ethics/ manners/ good taste/ sensitivity/ ettiquite ( all of which are intended to civilize us wretches )

We aren't saying they aren't free to speak, we're just asking them to have some common decency ( and that is NOT the same as stiffing free speech, as much as you may want it to be )

And G, people - maybe not you - but any one who wants to function in society - are forced to behave in certain ways every minute of every day - and I think even you can see that.

Edited by Shalamar, 26 January 2008 - 11:02 PM.

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#73 Cheile

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Posted 26 January 2008 - 10:59 PM

oh his day will come.  and so will the rest of his inbreds and their followers.  they'll cross the wrong person and either get smashed/run over or a few dozen bullets through their empty heads.  i know hoping for a slow death is too much so i'll settle for waiting to hear that he's been shot. :smirk:

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#74 G1223

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Posted 27 January 2008 - 12:26 AM

When Phelps leaves this mortal coil. I will cheer. If it's nearby I might consider going and holding up a sign. I hope hell is to your liking Reverend. And after talking to Heropa I will have to get two signs.

#75 Elara

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Posted 27 January 2008 - 01:16 AM

To get back to Heath Ledger, I found this article:

http://entertainment...icle3255897.ece

One of so few to speak of the man he was, instead of the tales they can sell.
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#76 SparkyCola

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Posted 27 January 2008 - 12:28 PM

Shal - I think you're being really unfair there to G. He's making a good point, and he's NOT on Phelps' side. He's just saying that they are allowed to do that under free speech. You may respond "Well, they *shouldn't* be" and that's fine. But just make sure you understand exactly what he's saying, because to me, and I may be wrong, it looks like you're making a lot of assumptions as to what G is actually saying, and those assumptions are not correct.

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Edited by SparkyCola, 27 January 2008 - 12:28 PM.

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#77 G1223

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Posted 27 January 2008 - 12:43 PM

That and I find it painfully Ironic. I hate this man. I find his actions distatesful. I would if possible do all with in the law to ensure he could not speak.  But those liberals who demand we hear the other side's issues that we might find distatseful if not disguesting. Are now enraged at his actions.  This is dark comedy minus the gallows and what not.


They made it happen. They dislike it. Well it's a LOT two faced to be frigging boo hooing this man using thier own rules and getting up in their face.
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If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

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#78 Bad Wolf

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Posted 27 January 2008 - 01:14 PM

I agree with sparky.   It *is* ironic btw that anyone who calls themselves liberal would be so gung ho to preemptively stop someone like Phelps from speaking.  

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#79 Cheile

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Posted 27 January 2008 - 03:37 PM

^ sorry Lil but there's a difference between free speech and harassment.  picketing funerals and disrupting the grieving of others IS harassment.  

i don't give a flying damn WHOSE funeral it is, whether it's some random gay citizen, one of those who serve this country or a fine actor like Heath Ledger who happened to choose a role to portray that the fake Reverend and his inbreds have a PROBLEM with. :sarcasm:

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#80 Godeskian

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Posted 27 January 2008 - 03:45 PM

View PostBad Wolf, on Jan 27 2008, 06:14 PM, said:

I agree with sparky.   It *is* ironic btw that anyone who calls themselves liberal would be so gung ho to preemptively stop someone like Phelps from speaking.

Ironically enough, despite G's misassumptions to the contrary, I don't want to stop him. I just think it's cosmically unjust that people like Heath Ledger die, and people like Phelps don't. But I'd never advocate stopping him from excersising free speech.

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