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Library Porn Filters

Children Library Filters First Amendment

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#1 Rov Judicata

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Posted 25 June 2003 - 10:38 AM

http://dc.internet.c...cle.php/2225931

Quote

The U.S. Supreme Court, on a 6-3 vote, ruled Monday that public library Internet anti-pornography filters are not a violation of the First Amendment, even if the filters block some legitimate sites. The decision overturns a Philadelphia federal appeals court ruling that the Children's Internet Protection Act (CIPA) violated the free speech rights of Americans.

CIPA was enacted in December 2000, in part to protect minors from access to Internet pornography. It requires schools and libraries to use the filtering software to shield minors from adult material but, because it called for adults to get permission to access certain information, it raised the ire of the civil liberties and library groups. The law also blocked federal funding to libraries that did not install the software.

The Philadelphia appeals court sided with the civil liberties groups, saying it was concerned that library patrons might be too embarrassed or lose their right to anonymity because the CIPA law required that they seek permission to have the filtering software removed.

The Supreme Court dismissed those concerns and additionally ruled that the filters do not turn libraries into online censors.

The decision was a major victory for federal lawmakers, who have made three attempts to curb children's access to online pornography. In 1996, Congress passed the Communications Decency Act (CDA), which the Supreme Court struck down in 1997 as unconstitutional, saying the CDA "place(d) an unacceptably heavy burden on protected speech."

Congress followed that defeat with the 1998 Child Online Protection Act (COPA), which required commercial Web site operators to use credit cards or other adult access systems to prevent minors from viewing the material. The Supreme Court found that law was too broad in scope for practical enforcement.

CIPA, on the other hand, focused on requiring libraries to install anti-pornography filters. The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) and the American Library Association filed twin-lawsuits last to have the law tossed out on First Amendment and due-process grounds.

My main objection to this is that it blocks sites that are legit. What if I'm doing research on child pedohilia? Not looking at pictures, obviously, but researching the sickness. Actually, in my junior high (waaaay back then ;)), I was once unable to access information on the Holocaust because the page was deemed 'non-kid friendly'.

I think this decision shows the danger of having Supreme Court justices who are too old to understand how the net works.
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#2 Bad Wolf

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Posted 25 June 2003 - 10:43 AM

I need to read the decision.

Who dissented btw?

Lil (betting on Souter, Ginsberg and Kennedy)
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#3 Rov Judicata

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Posted 25 June 2003 - 10:57 AM

^

I can't find the decision itself, but you're probably right on the dissenters. I'll look more carefully when I have tha chance.
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#4 Kimmer

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Posted 25 June 2003 - 11:02 AM

Well, let's see: govt says block or no bucks; govt also said spy on patrons or no bucks (and many libraries said keep your bucks, we're not spying). Maybe it's time for local money to spent on local libraries and for the feds to get the heck out of our lives.

I sound less and less like a Republican every day.  :eek:


kimmer

#5 Bad Wolf

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Posted 25 June 2003 - 11:05 AM

^

I see my plan is working....:devil:

;)
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#6 Kimmer

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Posted 25 June 2003 - 11:14 AM

Una Salus Lillius, on Jun 24 2003, 05:06 PM, said:

^

I see my plan is working....:devil:

;)
I won't deny that calm discussions, with rational people sharing facts is interesting and often leads me to change my mind on things. :eek:  However, you will nevah get me to register as a demo@$%^&! ;)  I've long considered independent more my cup of tea.

#7 Drew

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Posted 25 June 2003 - 12:39 PM

Well, good. This is one situation where I simply cannot understand the opposing view.
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#8 Rov Judicata

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Posted 25 June 2003 - 12:41 PM

Drew-- Mine is that legitimate sites will get blacked out. Such as ones about breast cancer or the sociological impacts of rape. Or, for that matter, researching rap music...
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#9 G1223

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Posted 25 June 2003 - 12:47 PM

Javert Rovinski, on Jun 25 2003, 01:42 AM, said:

Drew-- Mine is that legitimate sites will get blacked out. Such as ones about breast cancer or the sociological impacts of rape. Or, for that matter, researching rap music...
The decision is not saying that you cannot have access. Just that you walk up and ask the librian permission to have the filter removed.For easier access some libraries would have terminals set off without the software if the demand was high enough. Just like if you but a pack of cigarettes the guy at the counter can and is required by law to ask for proof of age. why not a libray?
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#10 Bad Wolf

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Posted 25 June 2003 - 12:47 PM

^

This is why I want to read the decision.

The danger of "over filtering" stated in the article really depends on what the decision says.

I don't trust these newsie characterizations of this kind of thing;)

Lil
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#11 Rov Judicata

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Posted 25 June 2003 - 12:53 PM

Here's the original decision:

http://caselaw.lp.fi...00&invol=02-361
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#12 Rhea

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Posted 25 June 2003 - 01:01 PM

kimmer, on Jun 24 2003, 05:03 PM, said:

Well, let's see: govt says block or no bucks; govt also said spy on patrons or no bucks (and many libraries said keep your bucks, we're not spying). Maybe it's time for local money to spent on local libraries and for the feds to get the heck out of our lives.

I sound less and less like a Republican every day.  :eek:


kimmer
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Rhea falls over in a dead faint
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#13 Bad Wolf

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Posted 25 June 2003 - 01:02 PM

Okay now that I've read it.

I cannot concur.

I think the refusal to consider the library's treatment of books is incorrect and I disagree with the refusal to apply the heightened standard to this situation.

It sets a dangerous precedent.

If this can be the rule with a public library then why not ANY public forum.

Why not just do away with the public forum doctrine altogether?

Oh have I mentioned how much I LOATHE Rehnquist?

He makes me ill.

Lil
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#14 silverwind

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Posted 25 June 2003 - 01:05 PM

G1223, on Jun 24 2003, 08:48 PM, said:

The decision is not saying that you cannot have access. Just that you walk up and ask the librian permission to have the filter removed.For easier access some libraries would have terminals set off without the software if the demand was high enough. Just like if you but a pack of cigarettes the guy at the counter can and is required by law to ask for proof of age. why not a libray?
Okay, as someone who works at a library:

Do you have *any* idea how difficult and time-consuming it would be to check ID on *every* patron who wants to use the library's computers?  The library I work in has 14 public terminals which are in *constant* use, by people of just about every age.  At the moment, we have high school aged kids around for the Midwestern Music camp thingy and we (the library assistants) have been told to watch what sites they're accessing.  It is *literally* impossible to keep an eye on what they're viewing.  

If people want to view those websites, they will.  Checking the IDs of patrons is a totally unfeasible plan.

Edited by silverwind, 25 June 2003 - 01:06 PM.

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#15 Kimmer

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Posted 25 June 2003 - 01:11 PM

Rhea, on Jun 24 2003, 07:02 PM, said:

kimmer, on Jun 24 2003, 05:03 PM, said:

Well, let's see: govt says block or no bucks; govt also said spy on patrons or no bucks (and many libraries said keep your bucks, we're not spying). Maybe it's time for local money to spent on local libraries and for the feds to get the heck out of our lives.

I sound less and less like a Republican every day.  :eek:


kimmer
Kimmer, I'm SHOCKED! SHOCKED, I TELL YOU!  :wacko:

Rhea falls over in a dead faint
kimmer fans Rhea and offers her a nice cool glass of something or other.  Hope you didn't hurt your head when you fell over.

You're shocked? Mac almost drove us off the road when we discusssed this and I disagreed with him and then made that little statement. LOL  He did promise to love me no matter what my political leanings. hahaha

---Now hubby brought up a good point that I hadn't thought about ... is the library really the best place to view adult sites? Or do they need to set up an "adult" room so we are sure no kids are looking over someone's shoulders.

I understand his point, but I still hate the govt telling us what to do about everything. Soon we won't have any rights at all.

#16 G1223

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Posted 25 June 2003 - 01:15 PM

silverwind, on Jun 25 2003, 02:06 AM, said:

G1223, on Jun 24 2003, 08:48 PM, said:

The decision is not saying that you cannot have access. Just that you walk up and ask the librian permission to have the filter removed.For easier access some libraries would have terminals set off without the software if the demand was high enough. Just like if you but a pack of cigarettes the guy at the counter can and is required by law to ask for proof of age. why not a libray?
Okay, as someone who works at a library:

Do you have *any* idea how difficult and time-consuming it would be to check ID on *every* patron who wants to use the library's computers?  The library I work in has 14 public terminals which are in *constant* use, by people of just about every age.  At the moment, we have high school aged kids around for the Midwestern Music camp thingy and we (the library assistants) have been told to watch what sites they're accessing.  It is *literally* impossible to keep an eye on what they're viewing.  

If people want to view those websites, they will.  Checking the IDs of patrons is a totally unfeasible plan.
They come up to the desk to ask that you remove the filter. That is when you do the ID check. Also software is improving.  My experince with the libray has been that folks are given an access code. they then log in using that. That moniters sites and addresses used.

What you are saying is you are too busy to moniter the computers. Then maybe they need to remove the computers if the task is too difficult.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#17 Rov Judicata

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Posted 25 June 2003 - 01:25 PM

^

So... you're advocating making it harder to access knowledge because of some arbitrary public forum distinction?
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#18 G1223

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Posted 25 June 2003 - 01:39 PM

Javert Rovinski, on Jun 25 2003, 02:26 AM, said:

^

So... you're advocating making it harder to access knowledge because of some arbitrary public forum distinction?
No I am not I am saying either place the filters on the machines with a note. "We have in place a filter if this is preventing you getting access please ask the libriaian to remove it."  If the person needs to they go to the desk and ask the libriaian. Who goes back to the terminal or to her own work station. Then removes the filter. The time may be inconvient but that iwould be made part of the duties of the computer area.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#19 Bad Wolf

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Posted 25 June 2003 - 01:43 PM

^

That's not a bad suggestion G.

But it doesn't address theprecedent being set of the government making the filters a requirement of receiving the funding, taking the choice out of the library's hands.

Lil
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#20 G1223

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Posted 25 June 2003 - 01:50 PM

As to the government funding that is where compromise will have to come from both sides.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.



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