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Gun Control Gone Mad. Bye Bye Toys!

Gun Control Childrens toy guns

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#21 Bad Wolf

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Posted 27 June 2003 - 07:10 AM

No I guess I'm still not seeing what you're saying.

I don't  understand your point about being told to "be cool" with it I guess.  I mean obviously the people who sell these things want kids to want them and the kids want their parents to let them have it.  But hey I wanted to eat pop tarts when I was a kid and my mother said no.  That's her call.  Not the government's.  


I feel the same about toys, video games, and music.  

Lil
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#22 Guest-2112st-Guest

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Posted 27 June 2003 - 07:40 AM

(sigh)

Yes, there are parents who crack down, but ALL TOO OFTEN, there are parents who are just incredibly irresponsible when it comes to teaching kids.

There's a LOT of irresponsible parents out there. The fact that my folks were foster parents for over 25 years is IMNSHO proof of this. And how many folks are foster parents in the U.S?? TOO MANY.  :sarcasm:   :angry:

Ya know-sometimes I think that folks should be made to take some sort of intelligence test before they go out and have kids. I've driven a school bus for quite a number of years as well. Between the foster kids my parents had, and the kids I drove around on school buses-let me tell you-there are times I wanted to throttle the parents in the WORST way.  :angry:

Anyone can do the "dirty deed." But its the RESPONSIBILITY that comes afterwards that is EVEN MORE important.

So, I'm conflicted. On one hand, I agree with Lil. But man-what the HELL is it with some of these parents?!?!  :crazy:   :crazy:   :crazy:   :crazy: There are SO many parents who aren't doing their jobs that it's FRIGHTENING AND SICKENING. :(

This is one of the reasons I'm not driving the yellow banana this summer. I need a break from these little bastards.

:wacko:

Edited by Vapor Trails, 27 June 2003 - 07:43 AM.


#23 Bad Wolf

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Posted 27 June 2003 - 07:50 AM

I agree that there are parents who are not doing their jobs.

But the answer, imnsho is not abdicating to the government.

Lil
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#24 GiGi

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Posted 27 June 2003 - 07:54 AM

Una Salus Lillius, on Jun 26 2003, 12:11 PM, said:

I don't  understand your point about being told to "be cool" with it I guess.  I mean obviously the people who sell these things want kids to want them and the kids want their parents to let them have it.  But hey I wanted to eat pop tarts when I was a kid and my mother said no.  That's her call.  Not the government's.
I am pressured to "be cool" with the oldest having the gun by him and his dad.

Like I said there is a problem with cops shooting kids with the kind of gun he has.  That is why regulation is being brought up.  Most kids don't have parents who watch what is going on, including ours when they are not here.  Then it is a crisis because mom didn't pay attention and now there is hell to pay.

I understand what you are saying Lil, but we are not talking about pop tarts.

I personally am tired of being the only one around here insisting on firm limits.  It's exhausting and no one else seems to be seeing the problem.

And it is the lack of these limits that is resulting in KIDS GETTING KILLED.  They see violence on TV non-stop and think nothing of it.  It isn't their fault.  They don't understand the consequences until a tragedy has happened and then it is too late.

So, has anyone else got an answer to the problem of kids getting killed by police who are mistaking the guns for real ones....or is it just a way to weed out the gene pool?!   :wacko:
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#25 Bad Wolf

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Posted 27 June 2003 - 08:07 AM

by "around here" I take it you're referring to your household or...

Chiron I don't know what to say.  I think it's horrible that kids die because of trigger happy cops.  I personally don't think there's anything wrong with telling toy manufacters not to make the guns look so frelling real.  I think that's a hell of a lot less intrusive than a law that prohibits kids from owning toy guns don't you?

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#26 Drew

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Posted 27 June 2003 - 08:09 AM

chiron777, on Jun 26 2003, 03:55 PM, said:

I personally am tired of being the only one around here insisting on firm limits. It's exhausting and no one else seems to be seeing the problem.
I don't think it's fair to say that no one else is seeing the problem. It's just that we disagree about the solutions. This is the old safety vs. liberty argument.
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#27 Rov Judicata

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Posted 27 June 2003 - 08:10 AM

Drew, on Jun 26 2003, 02:10 PM, said:

chiron777, on Jun 26 2003, 03:55 PM, said:

I personally am tired of being the only one around here insisting on firm limits. It's exhausting and no one else seems to be seeing the problem.
I don't think it's fair to say that no one else is seeing the problem. It's just that we disagree about the solutions. This is the old safety vs. liberty argument.
^

And the only way to guarante 100% safety is 0% liberty.
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#28 Guest-2112st-Guest

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Posted 27 June 2003 - 08:17 AM

Una Salus Lillius, on Jun 26 2003, 08:51 PM, said:

I agree that there are parents who are not doing their jobs.

But the answer, imnsho is not abdicating to the government.

Lil
I agree Lil. I just wish there was some way parents can be held accountable.

And I'm talking about parents who just go and pop out babies with little thought as how they should be brought up-who go crying and screaming when something happens to them that could have been prevented with some discipline and common sense being taught early on.  :sarcasm:

I watched violent movies and played with toy guns-some being pretty realistic-looking. But I never did anything dumb. My parents were the law-and if I didn't follow that law to the LETTER, I'd be in deep doo-doo. They tolerated *******NO******nonsense from me.

Too bad more parents aren't like that.  :glare:

Edited by Vapor Trails, 27 June 2003 - 08:19 AM.


#29 Bad Wolf

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Posted 27 June 2003 - 08:23 AM

^

frankly, I don't oppose regulation of parenting.  I think people SHOULD have to meet certain mandated standards before having kids.  Yes yes I know that's a slippery slope but honestly, people are just so freaking irresponsible about it!

Lil
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#30 Drew

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Posted 27 June 2003 - 08:26 AM

Una Salus Lillius, on Jun 26 2003, 04:24 PM, said:

frankly, I don't oppose regulation of parenting.  I think people SHOULD have to meet certain mandated standards before having kids.
Yipe!  :eek2:  So you think the Government SHOULD be in the bedrooms?

Edited by Drew, 27 June 2003 - 08:30 AM.

"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#31 Bad Wolf

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Posted 27 June 2003 - 08:33 AM

Drew, on Jun 26 2003, 02:27 PM, said:

Una Salus Lillius, on Jun 26 2003, 04:24 PM, said:

frankly, I don't oppose regulation of parenting. I think people SHOULD have to meet certain mandated standards before having kids.
Yipe!  :eek2:  So you think the Government SHOULD be in the bedrooms?
I KNEW you'd say that!

Hey, you need a license to get married right?

Why not a license to have kids?
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#32 Guest-2112st-Guest

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Posted 27 June 2003 - 08:38 AM

Drew,

Insofar as myself, I'm at a complete loss as to what should be done about the wacko parents.

But I'll tell you this, though: drive a school bus for a few years. Be a foster parent for a few years. Then tell me what you think.

I'm telling you-seeing some of the ANIMALS-and yes, I **mean** it when I say ANIMALS-that I've encountered make me wonder about the future of this country.

I'm not comforted. :(

#33 GiGi

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Posted 27 June 2003 - 08:42 AM

Sorry, Lil and Drew.  By "around here" and "seeing it as a problem" I meant my household and community.  It is one of the prices of living in a very liberal area.  Parents & teachers don't want to tell the kids "no"

My fourteen year old stepson can barely print because everyone wants to molly-coddle him and he is working them, he can print if forced to, but instead he has someone else take notes for him in class.  This same kid wants to run around with a gun.

I guess what is exhausting is that kids are given a lot of freedom these days, not much supervision or guidence since everyone is so busy.  The hard part is that the adults have to take on all of the problems caused by the kids and kids have more "rights" so more out of the parents' control.

One of the issues in the regulation we are talking about is that again the parents get hit by the law, and again there is no support in helping them deal with the kids.  That is very bad!

I do agree the manufacturing companies need to make these guns look very different than the real thing.

Bottomline, I do agree that we shouldn't take away freedoms.  But it would be interesting to get a policeman's take on this whole issue.
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#34 Drew

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Posted 27 June 2003 - 08:43 AM

Would now be the time to suggest that having one stay-at-home parent is best for the kiddos?  :angel:

:::ducking:::
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#35 Bad Wolf

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Posted 27 June 2003 - 08:45 AM

^

So you want the government in your bedroom AND in the rest of your house???

*I'm kidding, I know very well that these are not easy issues*
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#36 Drew

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Posted 27 June 2003 - 08:46 AM

EDIT: CLONE!!

Edited by Drew, 27 June 2003 - 08:47 AM.

"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#37 Bossy

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Posted 27 June 2003 - 08:55 AM

I think that there are far too many people in this counrty who want to rely on the government to do what they should be doing themselves.

Instead of lobbying the goverment to pass laws regulating toys, start putting pressure on the manufacturers to make them non-realistic looking.

#38 Rov Judicata

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Posted 27 June 2003 - 08:56 AM

Una Salus Lillius, on Jun 26 2003, 02:24 PM, said:

frankly, I don't oppose regulation of parenting.  I think people SHOULD have to meet certain mandated standards before having kids.  Yes yes I know that's a slippery slope but honestly, people are just so freaking irresponsible about it!

Lil
The obvious question is, "Or else... what?".

The only viable means of enforcement would be state-mandated and coerced abortion, *particularly* amongst some religous folks who don't believe in birth control or abortion.

Any benefits that might be gained from such legislation are *far* outstripped by the legal, ethical, and parctical issues. Especially since there aren't any objective measures of what it means to 'be a good parent'.

IMO.
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#39 sierraleone

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Posted 27 June 2003 - 08:57 AM

Drew, on Jun 26 2003, 01:44 PM, said:

Would now be the time to suggest that having one stay-at-home parent is best for the kiddos?  :angel:

:::ducking:::
Having a stay-at-home parent is great if you can do it (or work part-time or work at home, or have grandparents/an extended family member living in the home, whatever arrangment seems good) but most people I know can't. I don't think I have right to tell people one of them has to stay at home with the kids. Heck, some people *send* their kids away (boarding school, etc). And single parents have much less choices. The only familiy members I can think of that stayed at home to raise kids are either signifigantly older, or one family, they have a farm, so most times both parents are there. But 95 % of my family (under my grandparents generation :) ), through choice or neccessity, have both (or one, if they are single parents ;) ) working. And I wouldn't say that the ones that have stay-at-home parents turned out better :blink: (some of them are ok, but some of them do make me  :blink: , though same with the ones who have both, or their single parent, working - to me, its not so much an issue of if the parents both work or not, but what kind of parents they are, my mother is a working parent, I'd say I turned out fine, but thats just me ;) :D )

(wonders how a gun-control thread can turn into this :D )

Edited by sierraleone, 27 June 2003 - 08:59 AM.

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Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
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#40 Bossy

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Posted 27 June 2003 - 08:57 AM

Drew, on Jun 26 2003, 04:44 PM, said:

Would now be the time to suggest that having one stay-at-home parent is best for the kiddos?  :angel:

:::ducking:::
I would totally agree. That would require a hefty amount of changing in our society.



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