Jump to content


Getting an "Insecure Connection" warning for Exisle? No worry

Details in this thread

A Pregnant Man

Medicine Medical anomalies 2008

  • Please log in to reply
6 replies to this topic

#1 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

  • Islander
  • 9,215 posts

Posted 25 March 2008 - 03:39 PM

My computer is so slow, I can't get the link right now, but one can news-google Thomas Beatie if one likes.

Basically the story is Thomas was born a female, but identifies as a man. He did officially change his gender to male via testosterone and removed his breasts, but kept his indoor plumbing so to speak. And he did the paper work to change genders as is allowed in his state I guess (OR IIRC). He got married to a woman. They wanted a child, but his wife is unable to carry a child, so they decided he'd carry the child. He stopped taking the testosterone for four months before his body got back to its old equilibrium I guess. No drugs needed to aid his pregnancy, though their first try was ectopic and triplets... this time no complications so far.
Has had problems with some of the medical community.

With my computer being slow I can't get all the info... no drugs needed to aid to assist the pregnancy? Doesn't most fertility assistant treatments require drugs? The only kind I can think of is artificial (or natural...) insemination of sperm... if that is the case, then it is HIS ovum, genetically his child, genetically he is the mother. Of course, if his wife donated the egg, then he might not need drugs ;) just timing to make sure his wife's fertilized egg is implanted at the right time when his womb was ready.

This can't be the first time a trans-gendered male has been pregnant and carried to term...


Anyways, this makes for an interesting legal situation. He can only marry a female because in his state they allowed for trans-genders to 'change' their legal gender. In another state wouldn't matter what he had done to his body, he'd still be female, and could only marry a male.
What is he allowed to put on the birth certificate? From my understanding, a birth-mother's name MUST be on the birth certificate, as the mother. Heck, even for surrogates, the parents have to go through official adoption stuff don't they? Birth mother over-rides even genetic mothers on birth certificates.

So what scenarios are there?
To start with, I imagine:
He gave birth...he must put his name, Thomas Beatie, as the mother on the birth certificate, even though he is legally male.
If they used a sperm donor, and they do NOT have a legally male's name they want to put on there, I imagine "father" will have to be left blank or unknown. Certainly not the first time in history either ;) Unless he is allowed to put his own name as mother and father....
However, women are giving free reign essentially to name the father are they not? And the names they put down are not generally screened to prove they belong to a legal male. If his wife's name was Jamie, Kelly, Jordan, Morgan, Sam, Alex, Pat(rick/ricia) etc, he could probably just quietly put it down...

Though I don't imagine that would go over well in court if ever brought up.

If he doesn't go that route and leave the father part blank, or puts his own name, what about his wife's parental rights? If she was a male it wouldn't matter, as males are automatically consider the father of any children of the marriage. A husband has a child out of wed-lock though... the wife is never automatically the mother. If he dies, could his family go after custody and leave her out in the cold?

What could he do to protect her parental rights? I imagine they could go through adoption, but thats not as simple as it sounds. One could ask, well does OR allow gay couples to adopt? I don't know, but in either case, this isn't the same thing.
In gay adoption, there is a gay person or couple adopting a kid not genetically related to either of them.
What happens with gay couples who use a assistive fertility technologies, or with children from a previous ('straight') relationship?
If assistive fertility technologies are used I imagine lesbians leave father blank and have their partner adopt the child, and gays using surrogates either have one down as father, or father blank and either the one NOT on the certificate adopts the child, or they do it jointly.

HOWEVER, if its a child from a previous relationship being adopted by a gay partner, they have to get permission from the biological parent (assuming they are on the birth certificate) before they can take away their rights/responsibilities. But he certainly doesn't want to take his parental rights away from himself!

Its quite a quandary and I keep going around in circles.
And a mother cannot let someone adopt their child without the father's permission if he is known... How about this... As mother, he gives up all parental rights and gives them to the father, and as father/husband, he allows his wife to adopt the child so they are jointly parents ;) I *think* that would be the simpliest way they can both ensure they can exert their parental rights and responsibilities in the future ;) That would mean he'd have to put his name down as mother and father on the birth certificate though... is that allowed?
I foresee problems if he leaves the father space blank, though maybe it's nothing, maybe they could do it as a lesbian-partner adoption, if allowed in his state. Though thats not what it is if he is legally male, but then I doubt if gay adoption is allowed they refer to gender on adoption forms... Ok, enough of my mind going around in circles, I'm going to post this thing now :D
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#2 Zwolf

Zwolf
  • Islander
  • 3,683 posts

Posted 25 March 2008 - 03:45 PM

He's going to be a seahorse!  :)

Cheers,

Zwolf
"I've moved on and I'm feeling fine
And I'll feel even better
When your life has nothing to do with mine."
-Pittbull, "No Love Lost"

"There are things that I'd like to say
But I'm never talking to you again
There's things I'd like to phrase some way
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'd put you down where you belong
But I'm never talking to you again
I'd show you everywhere you're wrong
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you."
- Husker Du, "Never Talking To You Again"

#3 Annibal

Annibal
  • Islander
  • 3,036 posts

Posted 25 March 2008 - 04:15 PM

Haha, I just had a vision of those two getting divorced and the wife, not the "mother," gets custody...Big legal battle ensues, etc. etc., I wonder how something like that would turn out? I mean, it would totally depend on the parents, monetary stuff, everything like that, but it seems like courts like to grant custody to the mother. Who would the mother be in a case like this?
"A song for a heart so big, god wouldn't let it live. May angels lead you in. Hear you me my friends.
On sleepless roads the sleepless go.
May angels lead you in."

Blue skies, Alex.


My Deviantart page!
My Films and Animations!

#4 scherzo

scherzo

    I know things

  • Islander
  • 3,388 posts

Posted 25 March 2008 - 04:29 PM

Quote

Basically the story is Thomas was born a female, but identifies as a man. He did officially change his gender to male via testosterone and removed his breasts, but kept his indoor plumbing so to speak.
I'll never cease to be amazed at our continuing advances in MAD SCIENCE. :blink:

Quote

And he did the paper work to change genders as is allowed in his state I guess (OR IIRC). He got married to a woman. They wanted a child, but his wife is unable to carry a child, so they decided he'd carry the child. He stopped taking the testosterone for four months before his body got back to its old equilibrium I guess. No drugs needed to aid his pregnancy, though their first try was ectopic and triplets... this time no complications so far.
This couple should have a life size cut-out of Rod Serling standing in their living room. I hope they're already saving up for the kid's therapy.  :wink:

-scherzo
"Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so."    -Ronald Reagan, October 27 1964
Posted Image

#5 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

  • Islander
  • 9,215 posts

Posted 25 March 2008 - 04:32 PM

^ I wonder if its a hoax... its certainly plausible from my understanding (though I don't know what effect testosterone treatments have on ovaries and ova, so maybe it isn't as plausible as I think), but it could be a hoax. I don't see where its been run by big papers though...

If true, its possible the wife will have no rights at all if they divorce... I don't see how she can be put on the birth certificate unless he lies and puts her name (Nancy btw) under "father" and would that be held up in custody court if they divorced? I'm pretty sure they'll have to have some adoption go through to ensure the wife has parental rights.
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#6 Talkie Toaster

Talkie Toaster

    There's no Shepard without Vakarian

  • Islander
  • 1,136 posts

Posted 26 March 2008 - 10:25 AM

View Postscherzo, on Mar 25 2008, 09:29 PM, said:

I'll never cease to be amazed at our continuing advances in MAD SCIENCE. :blink:

-scherzo

Somebody born with a uterus and ovaries is having a kid- this has been going on for quite a while.
Blessed is the mind too small for doubt.

#7 FlatlandDan

FlatlandDan

    Sophisticate

  • Islander
  • 8,824 posts

Posted 26 March 2008 - 11:27 AM

Link, with photograph

Will all those hormonal drugs he's been taking will hurt the baby?
My candle burns at both its ends;
It will not last the night;
But oh, my foes, and oh, my friends --
It gives a lovely light."
-Edna St. Vincent Millay



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Medicine, Medical anomalies, 2008

0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users