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thousands dead in China quake

Natural Disasters China Earthquake 2008

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#1 Nikcara

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Posted 12 May 2008 - 10:35 AM

From the BBC

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A powerful earthquake has killed at least 8,500 people in China's south-western Sichuan province, up to 5,000 of them in just one county.


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Some 80% of buildings there were reported to have been destroyed, leaving between 3,000 and 5,000 people dead and up to 10,000 injured.

Meanwhile hundreds of people were reported to have been buried in two collapsed chemical plants in Shifang in Sichuan, and at least five other schools were reported to have collapsed.

And there are fears the death toll could turn out to be much higher once the damage in Wenchuan county - the epicentre - is assessed, says BBC China analyst Shirong Chen

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There were harrowing reports from the scene of a school collapse in Dujiangyan city - about 100km (60 miles) from the epicentre - where 900 students were buried and 50 dead.

:cry: :(
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#2 Peridot

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Posted 12 May 2008 - 10:54 AM

Oh, no....Asia is really hurting right now... :(

I'll have to e-mail my friend and see if her parents are okay. :unsure:

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#3 SparkyCola

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Posted 12 May 2008 - 11:09 AM

Also:

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The province (Sichuan) is the most populated part of China - home to 87 million people.

:( :(

This so shortly after the cyclone in Burma!

Hope your friend's parents are ok Peridot :hugs: Let us know what you hear.

Edited by SparkyCola, 12 May 2008 - 11:12 AM.

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#4 G1223

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Posted 12 May 2008 - 12:21 PM

Didn't we have a smiley of a violin being played. I miss that gif.
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#5 silverwind

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Posted 12 May 2008 - 12:25 PM

Such sentiment in the face of overwhelming loss of human life is absolutely chilling.

#6 Bad Wolf

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Posted 12 May 2008 - 12:29 PM

I agree.

Whatever anyone thinks of the politics of a particular country or its leaders, the death of thousands is still the death of thousands.  It's pretty mind boggling to me that people can so easily dismiss these tragedies in the name of their political leanings.

I can damn well guarantee that Americans who behave this way would be incensed were the rest of the world to react similarly to such a tragedy in this country.

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#7 G1223

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Posted 12 May 2008 - 12:40 PM

View Postsilverwind, on May 12 2008, 01:25 PM, said:

Such sentiment in the face of overwhelming loss of human life is absolutely chilling.


In acountry which suppresses the basic rights of over a billion people. Who are taking food and water from the mouth of their own people to host a set of games which are propaganda to them.

You think I have a disreguard for human life. I will give you the PRC who does this lack of concern trick down  a hell of alot more efficently than I do.

And as disasters go this is pretty mild. Yet we need to crank up the tears and cry for  a people we will never met a people who we likely will never meet.

You want what tear sand sobs like this happened to my family or of a best friend dying in my arms? Really for a bunch of strangers.

God the drama queen needs of people. It is a disaster in a part of the world where government care less for the lives of their people than they do for looking good.

Edited by G1223, 12 May 2008 - 12:42 PM.

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#8 Balthamos

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Posted 12 May 2008 - 12:45 PM

So, since I don't like the politics of George W. Bush does that mean I don't have to shed a tear if something happens to you G?

That's so callous I can scarcely believe it was said.

#9 silverwind

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Posted 12 May 2008 - 12:49 PM

There are likely well over 10,000 people dead in this earthquake.  Of course, if a person sheds no tears or feels no empathy for a disaster which killed 100,000 and may kill twice that in the next month, I'm less than surprised it evokes no sympathy here.

I have massive issues with the PRC's policies.  Many of them I find absolutely appalling.  But I have no hatred for the Chinese people.  While the middle class of China is growing at a signficant rate, the majority of people there are farmers.

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Really for a bunch of strangers.

Yes.  Exactly, for a bunch of strangers.  I can't speak for you, but I don't think the capacity for empathy and compassion should be limited to people I have met, or will meet in my lifetime.  It shouldn't be limited by country, or nationality, or any other arbitrary and temporary line drawn by humans.

So yes, I have the unreasonable expectation that five collapsed school buildings with children buried within them should elicit some sort of emotional response other than apathy or disdain.  Call me crazy.
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#10 Bobby

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Posted 12 May 2008 - 12:52 PM

View PostG1223, on May 12 2008, 12:40 PM, said:

View Postsilverwind, on May 12 2008, 01:25 PM, said:

Such sentiment in the face of overwhelming loss of human life is absolutely chilling.


In acountry which suppresses the basic rights of over a billion people. Who are taking food and water from the mouth of their own people to host a set of games which are propaganda to them.

You think I have a disreguard for human life. I will give you the PRC who does this lack of concern trick down  a hell of alot more efficently than I do.

And as disasters go this is pretty mild. Yet we need to crank up the tears and cry for  a people we will never met a people who we likely will never meet.

You want what tear sand sobs like this happened to my family or of a best friend dying in my arms? Really for a bunch of strangers.

God the drama queen needs of people. It is a disaster in a part of the world where government care less for the lives of their people than they do for looking good.

It's a statistic, a line in the news paper so it can be hard to connect.  But the fact remains that thousands of people have died and thousands more are suffering right now.   One doesn't have to cry but sympathy on a human level is nice.  I don't think you are that hard hearted, G, cause you've done nice things for people on this board like Nonny.   This is just mean spirited, I know with the posts showing up there isn't much to say other than, "dear god" but is 9000 worse than 1 person who dies in a horrible diaster?  But they are human beings and hurt and feel pain just like we do.  Yes, their government treats them like crap but that doesn't make it any less horrible for them.

#11 SparkyCola

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Posted 12 May 2008 - 01:16 PM

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In acountry which suppresses the basic rights of over a billion people. Who are taking food and water from the mouth of their own people to host a set of games which are propaganda to them.

You think I have a disreguard for human life.
See, this is where it doesn't connect for me, G. Because I know you care about human life. And yet here you are. Let me put it this way: if you care so much about the people who are getting food and water taken away to host a set of games, then where did that caring disappear to for the thousands who have died in this natural disaster? Which FTR has nothing to do with their government whatsoever. You think the government sent the earthquake?

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Yes. Exactly, for a bunch of strangers. I can't speak for you, but I don't think the capacity for empathy and compassion should be limited to people I have met, or will meet in my lifetime. It shouldn't be limited by country, or nationality, or any other arbitrary and temporary line drawn by humans.

So yes, I have the unreasonable expectation that five collapsed school buildings with children buried within them should elicit some sort of emotional response other than apathy or disdain. Call me crazy.

Well said silverwind.


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It is a disaster in a part of the world where government care less for the lives of their people than they do for looking good.

It sounds like you'd vote for them. Do you see what I mean? You are being MORE callous than the government you hate for being callous. G - some of the people who died in this quake were children. How can they possibly be guilty of whatever you think they are guilty of? How can they possibly deserve this level of contempt?

Sparky

Edited by SparkyCola, 12 May 2008 - 01:16 PM.

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#12 G1223

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Posted 12 May 2008 - 01:31 PM

I did those things because those people are people I deal with here and are a part of the community I am a part of. I am not in a communioty that is half a world away.

What I keep seeing are people who fall to peices and cry their eyes out oversomething half a world away and then sit there and wait for the next thing to cry their eyes out about.

I have no connection to this disaster. I am more concerned that a tornado could wipe silverwinds home and kill half her family. Why because she lives in a part of the world where that could happen. I am concerned when I hear Nonny is heading in for a cancer screening. Why becuase the effort to connect to these people has happened. They matter.

One death is a tragedy. A Million a Statistic. A pity a man like Stalin had to give us the truth but that does not make any less so.

So this is why I do not feel sorry for the people of China or the people of Burma. But I do for the people here at Exisle. I look to seeing what can be done to help them when things get rough. If I see someone here not getting helped I help. That is what this place is for.

But seeing people crying and weeping uncontrollably over this sets my blood off. We have issues which can be helped here.

We have a member who faced becomming homeless. We have a member facing the death of a family member and turns to us for help. Those people matter here because they are here.

Get your priorities worked out.
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#13 G1223

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Posted 12 May 2008 - 01:39 PM

View PostSparkyCola, on May 12 2008, 02:16 PM, said:

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In acountry which suppresses the basic rights of over a billion people. Who are taking food and water from the mouth of their own people to host a set of games which are propaganda to them.

You think I have a disreguard for human life.
See, this is where it doesn't connect for me, G. Because I know you care about human life. And yet here you are. Let me put it this way: if you care so much about the people who are getting food and water taken away to host a set of games, then where did that caring disappear to for the thousands who have died in this natural disaster? Which FTR has nothing to do with their government whatsoever. You think the government sent the earthquake?

Quote

Yes. Exactly, for a bunch of strangers. I can't speak for you, but I don't think the capacity for empathy and compassion should be limited to people I have met, or will meet in my lifetime. It shouldn't be limited by country, or nationality, or any other arbitrary and temporary line drawn by humans.

So yes, I have the unreasonable expectation that five collapsed school buildings with children buried within them should elicit some sort of emotional response other than apathy or disdain. Call me crazy.

Well said silverwind.


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It is a disaster in a part of the world where government care less for the lives of their people than they do for looking good.

It sounds like you'd vote for them. Do you see what I mean? You are being MORE callous than the government you hate for being callous. G - some of the people who died in this quake were children. How can they possibly be guilty of whatever you think they are guilty of? How can they possibly deserve this level of contempt?

Sparky

Children die from illnesses. They die from a family member killing them. They die because someone raped and killed them. They die from crossing the street wrong. They die because a genetic illness caused their hearts to stop.  They die from cancers we cannot treat. Children die everyday. In mondane to horrible circumstances.

Now give me EnTrances child. She gets ill. He cannot cover the bills. We go and help. I know I would. I would see if there were others closer who could go and help to ease their burden. Because he is a member of our community and is here. Helping him would be the same as helping my neighbor.

Crying useless tears over a faceless mass half a world away or over a child who disappeared that I never met is insanity.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

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#14 SparkyCola

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Posted 12 May 2008 - 01:43 PM

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What I keep seeing are people who fall to peices and cry their eyes out oversomething half a world away and then sit there and wait for the next thing to cry their eyes out about.

But...no one here is doing that. Expressing grief at thousands of people being killed, with a simple :( frownie, is hardly as melodramatic as all that. Now, we can't see each other in real life, but I would be beyond surprised if someone has "fallen to pieces" over this.

In a way, I agree with you - in a *way* - I see what you're saying. I feel that way about Princess Diana. It gets to the point of absurdity at times. Now, I don't know what media coverage you've seen of this, but all I've seen is this thread, and people certainly aren't overreacting here.

I hear what you're saying about inappropriate and at times pretentious, artificial responses by people who want to be seen as "compassionate" and in reality are just being mildly pathetic. But that isn't happening here.

Re-read. I don't know if you've encountered that in RL and are just venting here, but in this thread, you're the only one who is going OTT on outrageous responses.

Besides, even if some people are ludicrously melodramatic - that doesn't mean you have to respond with the other extreme- being absurdly callous.

The human imagination is sufficient to feel grief about the children and adults who lost their lives in this disaster. Because one death is a tragedy, and so is a million.

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#15 Balthamos

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Posted 12 May 2008 - 01:49 PM

Wow, I don't really see anyone here crying their eyes out.

What I see is a group of people who have the capability to empathise with and give their sympathy to people already less fortunate than us who've been struck by something terrible.

What I see is a group of people outraged that you can be so cold to the pain and suffering of others.

I see you G1223 saying that these people aren't important because their government treats them badly.

Nobody has asked you to help them but you speak about their lives as if they're no more significant than the dust mites from your carpet.

Should we apologise for being inferior beings who suffer from empathy for those who we're not directly connected to?

#16 SparkyCola

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Posted 12 May 2008 - 01:49 PM

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Now give me EnTrances child. She gets ill. He cannot cover the bills. We go and help. I know I would. I would see if there were others closer who could go and help to ease their burden. Because he is a member of our community and is here. Helping him would be the same as helping my neighbor.

Crying useless tears over a faceless mass half a world away or over a child who disappeared that I never met is insanity.

Then don't cry. I'm not. What's your obsession with tears that no one is crying? But I still acknowledge that this loss of life on a grand scale is a tragedy. I don't celebrate the loss of life like you have done, I don't scorn it - I have respect for the victims. You don't. If you really feel this way, then I guess you wouldn't mind if I said "Oh dear. Cry me a river." in response to 9/11  ??? After all - it's an ocean away from me. Nothing to do with me, right? Strangers to me. Why should I care? They are not part of my community!

You're talking about different types of caring. There is caring for a friend who breaks their arm. You make sure they're ok. If you see a stranger with a broken arm - meh, no big deal. They're not your friend. Fair enough. But the difference here is that if you see someone in the street bleeding to death, they need your help whether you are a friend or not. If it were a friend it would be even more powerful, but even for strangers, I defy you to look for a violin then G, because I KNOW you would go and help. Even if you were faced with a million people bleeding to death, you would help. You wouldn't just say "Meh, it's just a statistic now."

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#17 Themis

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Posted 12 May 2008 - 01:52 PM

My priorities are worked out, thank you very much.

My priority to take some action starts with those near to me, then those not so near but definitely dear, and so on down the line.  For those facing a new natural disaster, if I can divert some of my Goodwill stash or a few toiletries to their aid, I will.  I live in tornadio country - I could need some shampoo from the Red Cross myself one day.

My priority for sympathy, however, is for anyone who is hurting through no fault of their own.  I didn't know any of these people, but that doesn't make me feel any less sympathetic that a natural disaster tore their life apart.  I'm not wailing and gnashing teeth, but that doesn't mean I can't feel bad for them, have compassion for them.

If you can't, G...well, let's not get myself banned.  You are always claiming to be a Christian.  Being so totally callous toward your fellow humans isn't a very good example of that.  You have a connection to the victims of the disaster as a human being.  A child who might have grown up to find the cure for cancer could have been one of the victims.  

I doubt anybody expects any of us to take any action on things like this, other than contribute to relief efforts with money or clothing or whatever if we're so inclined.

But to not even feel a short moment of sympathy or empathy or compassion?

That's cold, G.  That's absolute zero cold.
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#18 SparkyCola

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Posted 12 May 2008 - 01:53 PM

Well Said Themis.

ETA: Though I don't believe G is cold, and I don't believe he hasn't felt a moment of empathy. I just think he's responding to a perceived level of melodrama that is disproportionate to the situation. I don't know where the perception comes from, but that's my interpretation of this.

Edited by SparkyCola, 12 May 2008 - 01:56 PM.

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#19 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 12 May 2008 - 01:54 PM

About all I can say on this subject is my thoughts and prayers are with the victims of this disaster.
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#20 silverwind

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Posted 12 May 2008 - 02:03 PM

View PostG1223, on May 12 2008, 01:31 PM, said:

I did those things because those people are people I deal with here and are a part of the community I am a part of. I am not in a communioty that is half a world away.

Ah.  It sounds like our fundamental issue is the definition of "community".

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What I keep seeing are people who fall to peices and cry their eyes out oversomething half a world away and then sit there and wait for the next thing to cry their eyes out about.

What's the phrase?  "Better a bleeding heart than none at all"?  I don't just sit around waiting for the next thing to "cry my eyes out about".  And I don't think that the ability to show compassion towards another living thing is ever a bad thing.  More problems in this world are caused by a lack of compassion than by a surpluss of the same.

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I have no connection to this disaster. I am more concerned that a tornado could wipe silverwinds home and kill half her family. Why because she lives in a part of the world where that could happen. I am concerned when I hear Nonny is heading in for a cancer screening. Why becuase the effort to connect to these people has happened. They matter.

But if a tornado hit my family's home, I would expect people to show compassion because I would show them compassion in the same circumstance.  Without qualifiers like "Oh, they can afford to rebuild", or "Oh, but they have insurance", or "Well, what did they expect, living in Kansas?"

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One death is a tragedy. A Million a Statistic. A pity a man like Stalin had to give us the truth but that does not make any less so.

Just because something is true does not mean it is right.  His comments are also very much centered on Western culture, so all people would not agree to that particular "truth".

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So this is why I do not feel sorry for the people of China or the people of Burma. But I do for the people here at Exisle. I look to seeing what can be done to help them when things get rough. If I see someone here not getting helped I help. That is what this place is for.

I applaud you for the second half of that statement, but it does not cancel out the coldness of the first sentence.

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But seeing people crying and weeping uncontrollably over this sets my blood off. We have issues which can be helped here.

And only having compassion for people or living things when they meet some arbitrary list of conditions sets mine off.

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We have a member who faced becomming homeless. We have a member facing the death of a family member and turns to us for help. Those people matter here because they are here.

Get your priorities worked out.

I fail to see why one person's suffering should be placed above anyone elses.  I don't put a higher priority on the cyclone or earthquake victims than I put on ExIsle members' suffering.  My entire point is that sympathy and empathy should apply to all.



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