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Aborted fetuses could be used in IVF

Abortion

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#1 Cauda

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Posted 01 July 2003 - 10:15 PM

http://news.bbc.co.u...lth/3034266.stm

This is disturbing to say the least.

Edited by Certifiably Cait, 02 September 2012 - 04:04 PM.

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#2 Ogami

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Posted 01 July 2003 - 10:24 PM

Why not recycle old people into youth serum for the rest of us, while we're at it? Same vile principle.

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#3 Lover of Purple

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Posted 02 July 2003 - 02:19 AM

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#4 G1223

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Posted 02 July 2003 - 02:35 AM

Well before I go saying anything what is IVF?

I scanned the article and missed it. As to doing this for stem cells this is a viable source of material that could be used to help those in situations where stem cell grown materials would benifit. We have people who donate blood which is harvest cells asI said I need more info before running for the hills or screaming murder.
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#5 Rov Judicata

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Posted 02 July 2003 - 03:11 AM

Yowch. Naive fool that I am, I assumed that 'IVF' was some important medical field.

You know, if it was medically neccasary, I would have more sympathy for the idea of using fetuses as raw materials.

But for something this nonessential? Why not use the fetus lips on adult women?
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#6 Cardie

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Posted 02 July 2003 - 03:27 AM

Javert Rovinski, on Jul 1 2003, 12:12 PM, said:

Yowch. Naive fool that I am, I assumed that 'IVF' was some important medical field.
IVF stands for "in vitro fertilization," and it is an important medical field for women who can't bear children and desperately want to. When the first "test tube baby" was born--in Britain, btw--there was much carrying on about tampering with nature and the unethical behavior of the doctors. Now tens of thousands of babies are born using this technology every year.

That said, this particular method sounds more than a little creepy. I've  wondered why researchers have never looked into designing artificial wombs that could carry aborted fetuses to term and then make them available to childless couples as healthy babies rather than spare parts--sort of a form of giving a child up for adoption really early. I always thought tech could solve the abortion dilemma of rights of the mother to control her body vs. rights of the fetus to mature. Perhaps the legal issues are too complex for anyone to want to do this, but I have no doubt it's doable.

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#7 Rov Judicata

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Posted 02 July 2003 - 03:31 AM

Cardie-- Granted, I'm sure it's important to women who can't bear children and want to. But it certainly isn't up on the level of cancer research or longevity.

Your artificial womb idea, btw, is most interesting.
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#8 QueenTiye

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Posted 02 July 2003 - 03:47 AM

In fact - in the same article they are already talking about transplanting wombs...not quite the same thing - but in some cases of infertility structural damage to the womb is the problem....

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#9 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 02 July 2003 - 03:50 AM

Call me naive, but how is this different from organ donation? I really don't see the difference. Yes, it sound creepy, but, then so does liver transplant, kidney transplant, heart transplant...if you really think about it?
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#10 Rov Judicata

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Posted 02 July 2003 - 03:58 AM

LotS-- One word: Consent.

I'm pro-choice, but I'm not convinced this is a remotely good idea.
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#11 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 02 July 2003 - 04:02 AM

Javert Rovinski, on Jul 1 2003, 12:59 PM, said:

LotS-- One word: Consent.

I'm pro-choice, but I'm not convinced this is a remotely good idea.
I'm not convinced it's a good idea either.

As for your "consent" answer...that opens up a whole other can of worms.

It basically boils down to the entire abortion debate. Are fetuses a "person".

IIRC, a woman can't have an abortion in her third trimester, because that's when the fetus is considered to be almost fully developed, and a person.

If that's the case, and the fetus isn't considered a person until then, then what's wrong with this procedure?
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#12 Rhea

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Posted 02 July 2003 - 04:11 AM

Cardie, on Jul 1 2003, 09:28 AM, said:

Javert Rovinski, on Jul 1 2003, 12:12 PM, said:

Yowch. Naive fool that I am, I assumed that 'IVF' was some important medical field.
IVF stands for "in vitro fertilization," and it is an important medical field for women who can't bear children and desperately want to. When the first "test tube baby" was born--in Britain, btw--there was much carrying on about tampering with nature and the unethical behavior of the doctors. Now tens of thousands of babies are born using this technology every year.

That said, this particular method sounds more than a little creepy. I've  wondered why researchers have never looked into designing artificial wombs that could carry aborted fetuses to term and then make them available to childless couples as healthy babies rather than spare parts--sort of a form of giving a child up for adoption really early. I always thought tech could solve the abortion dilemma of rights of the mother to control her body vs. rights of the fetus to mature. Perhaps the legal issues are too complex for anyone to want to do this, but I have no doubt it's doable.

Cardie
I'm with Cardie. Using fetuses as spare parts makes a lot less sense than research into taking aborted fetuses and bringing them to term.

But it's all a little creepifying.  :eek:
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#13 Rov Judicata

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Posted 02 July 2003 - 04:12 AM

^

You know, I could see that if this held a cure for cancer. There's enough moral ambiguity that I could live with that. But for something as non-essential as fertility? I don't think the need quite justifies what's required.
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#14 G1223

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Posted 02 July 2003 - 05:12 AM

Rov the thing is we do not know where stem cell research whihc gotten from fetal tissue could give a cure for cancer. and also fro organ replacementor as a means to restore function to certain body parts. Imagine a person with Diebeties having a chance at a restarted pancres. I do nto know if that is where it could go but the idea is there. and this may be the way to go.

Remember early docotrs had to steal bodies from gravyards for anatomy study.
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#15 Rov Judicata

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Posted 02 July 2003 - 05:16 AM

G-- As I mentioned before, for research that saves lives, I'm all for fetal research. To me, this research isn't worth the moral ambiguity. JMTC.
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#16 Cardie

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Posted 02 July 2003 - 05:40 AM

The part I found creepy, if I understand the procedure correctly. was that a fetus who was never born could somehow be the genetic "mother" of another fetus. Now if I'm wrong and they are just going to take the genetic material out of the egg and put in that of the woman who wants to bear the child, then indeed I don't see anymore problem than with stem cell donation.

The other problem I've always feared with donations of anythng fetal is my suspicion that some unscrupulous people somewhere will start hiring women to get pregnant via artificial insemination and routinely harvest the fetuses for parts. I still think the benefits outweigh the risks, especially as far as stem cell research goes, but it's not a slam dunk.

Rov--if you've ever seen the pain that infertile couples go through, I don't know that you'd be so dismissive of IVF research. I mean, look how excited guys got when they invented Viagra!  ;)

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#17 silverwind

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Posted 02 July 2003 - 07:07 AM

Cardie, on Jul 1 2003, 01:41 PM, said:

I mean, look how excited guys got when they invented Viagra!  ;)
And the winner of today's amusing phrasing award goes to. . . ;)


Personally, if I caught the gist of the article correctly, I can't agree with what they're doing.  I'm pro-choice, but there are limits, IMO.  And, I can't resist saying, if you want a kid badly enough that you'll have a piece of an aborted fetus implanted in you :Oo: . . . .Maybe you should consider adoption?  *shudder*  Its not like there's a shortage of kids in the system. . .
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#18 Bad Wolf

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Posted 02 July 2003 - 08:21 AM

Line me up on the creeped out side of the fence.
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#19 GiGi

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Posted 02 July 2003 - 08:55 AM

^ Ditto
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#20 bandit

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Posted 02 July 2003 - 09:14 AM

G1223, on Jul 1 2003, 06:13 PM, said:

Rov the thing is we do not know where stem cell research whihc gotten from fetal tissue could give a cure for cancer. and also fro organ replacementor as a means to restore function to certain body parts. Imagine a person with Diebeties having a chance at a restarted pancres. I do nto know if that is where it could go but the idea is there. and this may be the way to go.

Remember early docotrs had to steal bodies from gravyards for anatomy study.
Just a random note, but there are proportionately more stem cells in the skin on a 17 year old's face then in the umbillical chord.
Human skin produces stem cells, so IMO, if the child has laready been insulted and demeaned enough to be aborted, at least have the decency to let he or she rest in peace.
And cardie, you understand the procedure correctly.

Edited by bandit, 02 July 2003 - 09:17 AM.




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