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Some of the best journalism from Iraq...

Journalism Iraq Rolling Stone

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#1 MuseZack

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Posted 02 July 2003 - 07:39 AM

I don't know if any of you have read the two-part Rolling Stone series of articles following a unit of the Marines First Recon from the Kuwait border to Baghdad, but it's absolutely essential reading-- whatever your overall feelings about the war.  It's immediate, on-the-ground reporting as well as being extremely well-written.  It's alternately scary, hilarious, stomach-churning, and heartbreaking.

Part one is at http://www.rollingst...en.asp?pid=1696

http://www.rollingst...en.asp?pid=1708
"Some day, after we have mastered the wind, the waves, the tides, and gravity,
We shall harness for God the energies of Love.
Then, for the second time in the history of the world,
we will have discovered fire."
--Father Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

#2 Drew

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Posted 02 July 2003 - 07:47 AM

MuseZack, on Jul 1 2003, 03:40 PM, said:

I don't know if any of you have read the two-part Rolling Stone series of articles following a unit of the Marines First Recon from the Kuwait border to Baghdad, but it's absolutely essential reading-- whatever your overall feelings about the war.  It's immediate, on-the-ground reporting as well as being extremely well-written.  It's alternately scary, hilarious, stomach-churning, and heartbreaking.
In the era of Jayson Blair I find it necessary to ask: Is it true?
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#3 Rov Judicata

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Posted 02 July 2003 - 07:49 AM

^

Given the number of specific people it mentions (and I'm only part way through it), we'd hear about it near instantly if it wasn't.
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#4 Drew

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Posted 02 July 2003 - 07:51 AM

But doesn't it say something about the times (or the Times, if you prefer) that we even have to ask?  :suspect:
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#5 Douglas

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Posted 02 July 2003 - 07:56 AM

Drew, on Jul 1 2003, 08:52 PM, said:

But doesn't it say something about the times (or the Times, if you prefer) that we even have to ask?  :suspect:
Not particularly.

I've been automatically assuming that someone is trying to deceive me for at least 3 years now.  :suspect:

The trick is working out who is lying, and about what.

That being said my first impulse for this one is that it's predominantly genuine (nothing is ever 100% true, since human beings can only see through the lenses of our own perception, but that's a whole other discussion).

#6 Rov Judicata

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Posted 02 July 2003 - 07:58 AM

^

No, not really. Frankly, it's not like I had much confidence in the media BEFORE that happened....
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#7 Ogami

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Posted 02 July 2003 - 08:01 AM

Drew asks:

In the era of Jayson Blair I find it necessary to ask: Is it true?

I'll second that. They do talk like Marines, but it's hard to guage Rolling Stone's reliability. It reads like Hunter S. Thompson on another bender. And yes, it is well-written, maybe like a novel.

-Ogami

Edited by Ogami, 02 July 2003 - 08:02 AM.


#8 MuseZack

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Posted 02 July 2003 - 08:40 AM

Drew, on Jul 1 2003, 08:48 PM, said:

MuseZack, on Jul 1 2003, 03:40 PM, said:

I don't know if any of you have read the two-part Rolling Stone series of articles following a unit of the Marines First Recon from the Kuwait border to Baghdad, but it's absolutely essential reading-- whatever your overall feelings about the war.  It's immediate, on-the-ground reporting as well as being extremely well-written.  It's alternately scary, hilarious, stomach-churning, and heartbreaking.
In the era of Jayson Blair I find it necessary to ask: Is it true?
Well, anything's possible, but if you're going to make stuff up, it seems like the height of foolishness to do it in regard to a bunch of Force Recon Marines....
"Some day, after we have mastered the wind, the waves, the tides, and gravity,
We shall harness for God the energies of Love.
Then, for the second time in the history of the world,
we will have discovered fire."
--Father Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

#9 Ogami

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Posted 02 July 2003 - 08:42 AM

It does have the right quotient of f-words. Maybe he polished it too much, it's jarring to read this compared to other "embedded" reports I've read.

I feel like they're all about to start marching along singing the "Mickey Mouse Club Theme". (Full Metal Jacket)

-Ogami

#10 Kevin Street

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Posted 02 July 2003 - 08:47 AM

Wow, now there's some vivid writing! Thanks for the link, Zackl :)

When all the celebrations are done today, I'm going to settle down and read through this. It looks very interesting.
Per aspera ad astra

#11 MuseZack

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Posted 02 July 2003 - 08:57 AM

Ogami, on Jul 1 2003, 09:43 PM, said:

It does have the right quotient of f-words. Maybe he polished it too much, it's jarring to read this compared to other "embedded" reports I've read.

I feel like they're all about to start marching along singing the "Mickey Mouse Club Theme". (Full Metal Jacket)

-Ogami
Given that every Marine I've ever known saw that movie at least a dozen times, it wouldn't surprise me.  From another embed, on moving into Tikrit:

Now the men were moving through a grey urban landscape under a flat, leaden sky. I had suddenly walked into the opening sequence of the second section of Stanley Kubrick's Full Metal Jacket. In the film, marines fan out and move into broken, bombed-out urban rubble under a sky the colour of smoke.

Overhead, both in the film and in real life, Huey helicopters (the 1960s version and the 1990s version respectively) wheeled overhead. This, I thought, is completely ludicrous. Stop thinking about films and  concentrate on what you are doing. Any moment some sniper might open fire.

That's what happened in the film. But now it might happen for real. Or not. It was a girl who shot all the soldiers in the film. The Ba'ath party don't have barely pubescent female snipers. Or maybe they do? I was rapidly becoming more concerned by my own pathetically unprofessional responses, and clear Vietnam film fixation, than on reporting the fall of Tikrit and the final death throes of Saddam's regime.

We stopped and took up positions behind a long, low wall (like they do in the film). The radio crackled. The marines surveyed the rubble ahead of them. Vroman (19 years old, from New York), and Norr (21, from Michigan), were told to "get on point". And Specialist Hemming turned to me. "You seen that film Full Metal Jacket?" he asked.

"Some day, after we have mastered the wind, the waves, the tides, and gravity,
We shall harness for God the energies of Love.
Then, for the second time in the history of the world,
we will have discovered fire."
--Father Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

#12 Ilphi

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Posted 02 July 2003 - 07:07 PM

Thanks for the link! It provided some good coverage.
Yea, ere my hot youth pass, I speak to my people and say:
Ye shall be foolish as I; ye shall scatter, not save;
Ye shall venture your all, lest ye lose what is more than all;
Ye shall call for a miracle, taking Christ at His word.
And for this I will answer, O people, answer here and hereafter,
The Fool - Padraic Pearse

#13 Rov Judicata

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Posted 03 July 2003 - 02:35 PM

M'kay, I'm done reading.

I don't know quite how to repond. It's very powerful. Thank you Zack. :).
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.



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