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Women in the Gameing Industry


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#1 enTranced

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Posted 17 July 2008 - 02:10 PM

So I have been waiting for Soul Calibur 4. I am a huge fan of the series.

And then I found out all the female characters have had breast augmentation since the third game.

(Oh and you can shred the clothes from their body too!)

Now, anybody who reads my posts here know that I have a deep respect and admiration for the female body. Ladies, you are all intensely hot, deal with it. :p

But it has been some time since I was a teenager. Some days, especially since my son made his entrance into the world, it seems like a 100 years. What I am trying to say is that these days the giant bouncing boobies in the Soul Calibur tailer are kinda....embarrassing. I can also see the darker side of having a trailer that shows a male character tearing clothes off the women with his sword. (At this time I don't know if the reverse is true, if you can tear off the guys clothing, hopefully you can but I can't tell from the trailers.)

Bit with the way my brain works I had to do a little research on how we got to this. I know from my days on City of Heroes, Final Fantasy Online and earth and Beyond community that a LOT of my fellow players are women. Don't game developers know that women of any age who play their games probably won't be as excited as teen boys that their chosen fighter boobs rise and fall and hey, you can git them all nekkid to!

CNET had some of the answer for me :

http://news.cnet.com...9986327-17.html

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According to the International Game Developers Association, women represent 40 percent of all gamers. And although the Entertainment Software Association pegs that number at about 38 percent, it found that the average female gamer plays games 7.4 hours per week.

With that in mind, how is it possible that women represent just 12 percent of the video game industry? Ostensibly, it's not for lack of interest--the numbers speak for themselves--so it must be something else. Unfortunately, it seems those same stereotypes may be to blame.

So while 40% of all *players* are women only 12% of the *makers* of games are women. (Which probably explains all those highly detailed boob animations being worked out on very expensive computers.  :rolleyes:

If you read some of the comments to the article it seems most of those women who play games are on MMORPG's and what the industry calls casual games (Bejewled, Zuma, Dinner Dash, etc....) which is why I suppose companies feel it's ok to over sex the women in your big budget games.

My question that I have been getting into in such a round about way is :

If you are a game developer, why is this OK?

One of the comments in this article is a woman saying that her favorite game recently was Heavenly Sword and I can see why. Noriko was a very attractive character who is realistically designed and takes no crap and yet she has her flaws and does the right thing. Oh and she loves and takes care of her younger adopted sister. AND she also manages to get very good marks by GUYS in the "game babe" polls on many sites.

Why can't we do this more often? And if it sells titles and makes money, why wouldn't game companies want to try?

What came first? Lack of of titles for women or lack of women willing to break into a old boys network of game development?

As a guy who lives in a customer service industry it shocks me that this is allowed to happen! Why WOULDN'T  you want to try to sell software to women?

Anyway, I have more to say but I want to get the ball rolling with this!

enTranced

Edited by enTranced, 17 July 2008 - 03:17 PM.

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#2 enTranced

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Posted 17 July 2008 - 02:20 PM

Here is a good article I found by a woman who runs a development company :

http://www.pbs.org/k...girl_games.html

One last article for now, CNN put together a good piece on this :

http://edition.cnn.c...mers/index.html

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Edited by enTranced, 17 July 2008 - 02:31 PM.

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#3 Josh

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Posted 17 July 2008 - 03:05 PM

Yeah, that sounds about right. Hence why men are often fully clothed whereas women have their breasts bopping around, amongst other things. Or why in Mass Effect, there's a potential lesbian romance but a man/man romance is not an option.

I can't think of ANY major female game designers.
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#4 enTranced

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Posted 17 July 2008 - 03:13 PM

View PostJosh, on Jul 17 2008, 08:05 PM, said:

Yeah, that sounds about right. Hence why men are often fully clothed whereas women have their breasts bopping around, amongst other things. Or why in Mass Effect, there's a potential lesbian romance but a man/man romance is not an option.

I can't think of ANY major female game designers.

The CNN article and the PBS article have two of them for you! :)

But you would not know them because there aren't any big name ones. Altnough, I will be checking out Sony's The Agency, which is being lead by a woman, she is in the CNN article. I would love to see a MMO shooter(!) designed by a woman!

I think gay romance would cause severe cranial detonation across the 50 states!

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Edited by enTranced, 17 July 2008 - 03:15 PM.

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#5 Talkie Toaster

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Posted 17 July 2008 - 06:34 PM

View PostJosh, on Jul 17 2008, 09:05 PM, said:

Yeah, that sounds about right. Hence why men are often fully clothed whereas women have their breasts bopping around, amongst other things. Or why in Mass Effect, there's a potential lesbian romance but a man/man romance is not an option.

I really wish Bioware (and other companies) would stop shoe horning in love interests into their games as they're almost without exception toe-curlingly bad. The only ones I've enjoyed were Torment (which was subtle, and besides which the best written game I've ever played) and teasing Bastilla in KoTOR (solely due to Jennifer Hale's voice acting).

Also, I think the smartest idea Bioware has ever had was to leak the fact that there was sex in Mass Effect as that probably doubled the sales figures right there. The Nerd is a tiresomely predictable creature to whom the promise of boobies is like a bacon sandwich to a starving wolf.
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#6 enTranced

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 08:16 AM

View PostTalkie Toaster, on Jul 17 2008, 11:34 PM, said:

The Nerd is a tiresomely predictable creature to whom the promise of boobies is like a bacon sandwich to a starving wolf.

That line is a thing of beauty. In fact I think I found my new signature.

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#7 Talkie Toaster

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 10:15 AM

View PostenTranced, on Jul 18 2008, 02:16 PM, said:

View PostTalkie Toaster, on Jul 17 2008, 11:34 PM, said:

The Nerd is a tiresomely predictable creature to whom the promise of boobies is like a bacon sandwich to a starving wolf.

That line is a thing of beauty. In fact I think I found my new signature.

enTranced

Thanks, but credit where credit's due it's from a Zero Puncuation review.

If you've got the time they're well worth watching, they're some of the funniest reviews I've seen.
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#8 Die Walküre

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 10:32 AM

Please refer to the ESRB content rating

Rated Teen
Mild Language
Partial Nudity
Sexual Themes
Violence

I can already sense this game is targetted towards the otakus in Japan.

If you feel like beating up and slicing up half naked women, feel free to play this game. If you feel like wanking off to video game characters, feel free to do so. Other than that, NO THANK YOU...I'll pass.
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#9 Godeskian

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 10:51 AM

View PostTalkie Toaster, on Jul 18 2008, 04:15 PM, said:

Thanks, but credit where credit's due it's from a Zero Puncuation review.

If you've got the time they're well worth watching, they're some of the funniest reviews I've seen.

Indeed, but most of that is the incredible negativity he brings to his reviews, for both the games he picks, and the fanboys in general. very funny though.

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#10 enTranced

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 11:13 AM

View PostDeltaRomeo, on Jul 18 2008, 03:32 PM, said:

Please refer to the ESRB content rating

Rated Teen
Mild Language
Partial Nudity
Sexual Themes
Violence

I can already sense this game is targetted towards the otakus in Japan.

If you feel like beating up and slicing up half naked women, feel free to play this game. If you feel like wanking off to video game characters, feel free to do so. Other than that, NO THANK YOU...I'll pass.

Ya, I hear you but there is till a lot to like about the Soul Calibur games the control (it just makes sense, not the math equations/epileptic fit of the Mortal Kombat franchise), the fun characters, the great unlock content (I loved being able to change the opening movie on SC1 on the Dreamcast).

If this new one still has that I will take the oversized boobies and the removable costumes but *sigh* it will be another game I can only play after the kiddo goes to bed.  :unsure:

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Edited by enTranced, 18 July 2008 - 11:14 AM.

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#11 Die Walküre

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 11:36 AM

Wow, how did you find the time to play games while having children?

Even though I'm 21, I really can't find the time to play games or watch TV. As a result, I have almost lost interest in Video Games no matter if they're good or not. After playing Tekken, Wolfenstein 3D, Doom 1 and 2, and Zelda as a kid, I'm not in the mood for any more RPGs, Fighting Games.

The last game I ever played was Roller Coaster Tycoon 3 Expansion....something about building things seem to captivate me.

Edited by DeltaRomeo, 18 July 2008 - 11:36 AM.

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#12 enTranced

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 12:09 PM

View PostDeltaRomeo, on Jul 18 2008, 04:36 PM, said:

Wow, how did you find the time to play games while having children?

Never sleeping does wonders!  :ninja:

LOL, actually you just have to manage your time. You beocme a great time manager when you have kids or you go insane! I usualy manage to get a half hour or so each day and when James is nice to dad, I sometimes get a hour. My wife and I use that 30 minutes to a a hour at night as our decompress time. Even if it is to late, it's better to have your me-time then go to sleep a stressy bundle of wires.

Quote

Even though I'm 21, I really can't find the time to play games or watch TV. As a result, I have almost lost interest in Video Games no matter if they're good or not. After playing Tekken, Wolfenstein 3D, Doom 1 and 2, and Zelda as a kid, I'm not in the mood for any more RPGs, Fighting Games.

The last game I ever played was Roller Coaster Tycoon 3 Expansion....something about building things seem to captivate me.

RPG's have taken a big hit with me. They demand so much time and I don't have that much to give! Kiddo pretty much killed City of Heroes for me. I still want to try to play FF13 tough. It would break my heart to not play a new Final Fantasy game.

Playing WITH your child is a great cheat!  I picked up the new Grand Tourismo to play with James. Even if he only repeatdly slams into the same wall over and over again. I look forward to better races as those hand/eye reflexes mature tho.  ;)

enTranced - raising his kid the video game way!

Edited by enTranced, 18 July 2008 - 12:10 PM.

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#13 Drew

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 12:28 PM

Double-post.

Edited by Drew, 18 July 2008 - 01:02 PM.

"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#14 Drew

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 12:28 PM

Ripping clothes off women with a sword? Oh, that's not phallic at all.  :rolleyes:

The "fantasy porn" style of art has been around for a long time (Hello, Boris!) and video game developers just adopted it. Perhaps they want to bridge the gap between static images and the kind of stuff you find at the triple-X "mini cinie". ("Hey, it's just pixels! It's not like these are real women being sexually assaulted! It's just a game!") And now you will be called a prude and a religious zealot for objecting.

Getting married, and even more so having kids, really changes one's perspective on this so-called "innocent entertainment."

Welcome to the other side of the generation gap! Don't trust anyone under 30! :cool:
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#15 enTranced

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 12:40 PM

^ I hear you. But then again, I have never been that into exploitive crap and it has always been there, what has changed is that the graphics are near life like now.

Unlike the heavily pixelated blobs of 80's and 90's soft core games these look like real women having their clothes hacked off. That is why I am hoping that women will continue to get into the video game industry. As they get behind the wheel a lot of this will fade.

Well, we will see if I can deal with this new over sexed Soul Calibur. I do a review for you all, I hope it's still the complex strategic brawler that I have always loved....

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Edited by enTranced, 18 July 2008 - 12:42 PM.

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#16 Drew

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 01:01 PM

View PostenTranced, on Jul 18 2008, 12:40 PM, said:

^ I hear you. But then again, I have never been that into exploitive crap and it has always been there, what has changed is that the graphics are near life like now.

Yeah, the line between pixels and reality is getting thin. For some reason, though, people still get defensive when you object to this stuff. I still can't find any reason to defend it, though, except in a holy First Amendment sort of way. "I support your right to create exploitative crap, but I think you're a real *a$$h*le for making it."

Quote

Unlike the heavily pixelated blobs of 80's and 90's soft core games these look like real women having their clothes hacked off. That is why I am hoping that women will continue to get into the video game industry. As they get behind the wheel a lot of this will fade.

I wouldn't necessarily presume that women in the industry means less exploitation. Women have been happily exploiting themselves ever since it was discovered that oversexed men like looking at boobies. However, more women in the industry might just mean more options for those who are now preparing to opt out.
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#17 enTranced

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 01:34 PM

Ok, we both agree that exploitive games are bad.

But now lets talk about the poistive stuff. How about sexy? I am a big fan of the sexy.

I would define fun sexy video game characters as :

Elena Fisher - Uncharted

http://en.wikipedia....-characters.jpg

Noriko of Heavenly Sword

http://en.wikipedia....mage:HS.PS3.jpg

Or Rikku from Final Fantasy 10

http://en.wikipedia....kku_artwork.jpg

I like these characters because I think they are fun, interesting characters that you don't mind spending some time with and they are all pretty attractive (for polygons on my computer/TV screen).

enTranced

Edited by enTranced, 18 July 2008 - 01:35 PM.

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#18 Josh

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 03:54 PM

View PostTalkie Toaster, on Jul 17 2008, 04:34 PM, said:

View PostJosh, on Jul 17 2008, 09:05 PM, said:

Yeah, that sounds about right. Hence why men are often fully clothed whereas women have their breasts bopping around, amongst other things. Or why in Mass Effect, there's a potential lesbian romance but a man/man romance is not an option.

I really wish Bioware (and other companies) would stop shoe horning in love interests into their games as they're almost without exception toe-curlingly bad. The only ones I've enjoyed were Torment (which was subtle, and besides which the best written game I've ever played) and teasing Bastilla in KoTOR (solely due to Jennifer Hale's voice acting).

Agreed. I actually think that I've been disappointed by RPGs over and over again because I keep hoping that they'll be as good as Torment. Sure, there wasn't really much of a game there but who cares when the dialogue is that good? :p
"THE UNICORNS ARE NOT TO BE TRIFLED WITH!" - John Burke.

#19 Talkie Toaster

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Posted 20 July 2008 - 11:11 AM

View PostGodeskian, on Jul 18 2008, 04:51 PM, said:

View PostTalkie Toaster, on Jul 18 2008, 04:15 PM, said:

Thanks, but credit where credit's due it's from a Zero Puncuation review.

If you've got the time they're well worth watching, they're some of the funniest reviews I've seen.

Indeed, but most of that is the incredible negativity he brings to his reviews, for both the games he picks, and the fanboys in general. very funny though.

It just means that whenever he gives a positive review it must be a REALLY good game! The developers of Call of Duty 4 and Psychonauts both have ZP to thank for an extra sale. Grand Theft Auto 4 will also be getting another sale sometime in the near future.

View PostenTranced, on Jul 18 2008, 07:34 PM, said:


I have to say that Noriko says less "battle hardened swordswoman" and more "try and pull this one off cosplayers."

View PostJosh, on Jul 18 2008, 09:54 PM, said:

Agreed. I actually think that I've been disappointed by RPGs over and over again because I keep hoping that they'll be as good as Torment. Sure, there wasn't really much of a game there but who cares when the dialogue is that good? :p

In all fairness how challanging is any game going to be when you play a character to whom getting repeatedly stabbed in the face is only a minor inconvenience?

Edited by Talkie Toaster, 20 July 2008 - 11:14 AM.

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#20 enTranced

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Posted 21 July 2008 - 09:13 AM

View PostTalkie Toaster, on Jul 20 2008, 04:11 PM, said:

View PostenTranced, on Jul 18 2008, 07:34 PM, said:


I have to say that Noriko says less "battle hardened swordswoman" and more "try and pull this one off cosplayers."



While I would love to buy a Noriko costume for my wife (she has all that red hair) and would pwn the cosplay, there is no realism required for Heavenly Sword. It lives in the same place that any martial arts fantasy lives. If you are a hot kick ass fantasy kung-foo fighter you would wear the same thing! :p

But what I love about it is they didn't to the expected. They didn't go the Tomb Raider/SC4 route. They put alot of thought in that costume and how it moves with Noriko.

And beleave me when I say I studied it very carefully.... :ninja:

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