Jump to content


Getting an "Insecure Connection" warning for Exisle? No worry

Details in this thread

Gang rape by soldiers in Kenya

Rape Gang Rape Kenya

  • Please log in to reply
76 replies to this topic

#61 Ogami

Ogami
  • Islander
  • 2,976 posts

Posted 04 July 2003 - 12:04 PM

Enmar butted in:

She did not say that. I read the entire thread again, just for you.

She did. Here's her entire first post on page 1:

Quote

Rape of women by soldiers is so common, been going on since the dawn of time. There are horrible stories from Vietnam and surrounding countries about the RAPE and MURDER of prostitutes there. My neighbor is a vet, I have heard stories first hand. To dismiss this or say it is prostitutes trying to get more money from the government is almost as disgusting as the rape itself.  gigi
speaking as a rape victim

I'm a disgusting person for daring to disagree with a rape victim, according to what she wrote. Since I can't speak as a rape victim, I guess that means I should shut up since my "qualifications" for speaking don't approach hers. That was her message to me, Enmar, I took it in the spirit it was intended.

The only one emotional here is you. She was very cool, actually:

I have gotten angry at people when I am discussing the topic (T-O-P-I-C) and I had people telling me I was personally excusing rape. The topic was turned away from the story towards my personal failings as a human being, and I damn well didn't appreciate it. I still don't, so buzz off.

-Ogami

#62 Bad Wolf

Bad Wolf

    Luck is when opportunity meets preparation

  • Islander
  • 38,881 posts

Posted 04 July 2003 - 12:08 PM

^

YOU buzz off.  If you don't appreciate being told you sound like a misogenystic jerk maybe you ought to make a better effort at not SOUNDING like one.   :glare:
Posted Image

#63 GiGi

GiGi

    Lipstick wearing PIG kisser!

  • Islander
  • 8,774 posts

Posted 04 July 2003 - 12:34 PM

Una Salus Lillius, on Jul 3 2003, 05:04 PM, said:

^

YOU buzz off.  If you don't appreciate being told you sound like a misogenystic jerk maybe you ought to make a better effort at not SOUNDING like one.   :glare:
Thank you Lil.

Ogami, you have twisted my words to no end.  It is pointless to go on since you are attacking the spin you have put on them, not what I have actually been trying to say.

Again, what Lil said!
"Life is as dear to a mute creature as it is to man. Just as one wants happiness and fears pain, just as one wants to live and not die, so do all creatures." -- HH The Dalai Lama

#64 Shaun

Shaun
  • Islander
  • 788 posts

Posted 04 July 2003 - 12:36 PM

The BBC carried a news item on this topic a couple of days ago on at least one of the major evening news bulletins. A couple of the women involved in the report were interviewed, also the local Chief and the Kenyan police who showed the reporter (and the viewers) the extensive police reports that have been made over the last several decades.
Shaun
Veni, vidi, vici

#65 Uncle Sid

Uncle Sid

    Highly impressionable

  • Islander
  • 1,414 posts

Posted 04 July 2003 - 12:36 PM

Moderator note:

Ladies and gentlemen, this thread is getting out of control with the personal comments and the level of invective.  Complaints have been made and I am bound to act in accordance.  I will be monitoring this thread closely for the near future, so please be charitable to one another or step away from the discussion.  The topic of rape is sensitive and personal to some, which should go without saying.  Be kind.
I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it. - Jack Handey

#66 QuiGon John

QuiGon John

    Gone

  • Islander
  • 4,158 posts

Posted 04 July 2003 - 12:40 PM

*ahem*

Moderator hat on

I'd like to suggest that this topic is getting a bit out of hand at this time...

Ogami, I think you might try to remember that these are sensitive issues that people feel strongly about, and throwing around terms like "hysteria" and "high horse" really isn't helping anything.

Disagreement on these matters is to be expected, but we'll all benefit if we can continue the debate without personal attacks.  If you're too upset by this thread to do that, I understand, but I'd ask you to take five before hitting your next 'reply,' and that goes for everybody.

Don't make me pull out the Trance quote.  I hate sounding purple. ;)

Moderator hat off

EDIT: In other words, "What Uncle Sid said."

Edited by John Burke, 04 July 2003 - 12:41 PM.


#67 bandit

bandit

    Bond, Fuzzy Bond

  • Islander
  • 1,026 posts

Posted 04 July 2003 - 12:59 PM

*bandit reads the thread thus far* at least there have not been any flame outs yet...

personally i doubt the claims stated, if they can prove them, then i would fully support the british in pulling up and hanging the men in question, retired or no, if they cannot prove it, i suggjest that the kenyans pay the british compensation comprable to what they would have received.

#68 ArmourMe

ArmourMe
  • Islander
  • 500 posts

Posted 04 July 2003 - 02:56 PM

Josh, on Jul 3 2003, 11:22 PM, said:

^

And THAT is why I would make a LOUSY soldier. ;)
{{{{{{{{{{{{{Joshy}}}}}}}}}}}}}  I like ballance in all things :)

#69 ArmourMe

ArmourMe
  • Islander
  • 500 posts

Posted 04 July 2003 - 03:14 PM

Enmar, on Jul 4 2003, 12:29 AM, said:

I think you don't understand the mechanism of gang rape. It doesn't take 20 years to get used to the idea, it takes strong bond created in training, it takes the contrast between the life in the base where people tell you what to do and the shocking discovery of how the locals regard you, it takes dehumanization of the victim. It is intense, it doesn't build up. And it seems like the soldiers were always there for short periods of training.
Excellently said, Enmar.  Thank you.

:)

AM

#70 Norville

Norville
  • Islander
  • 4,501 posts

Posted 04 July 2003 - 03:29 PM

Ogami, if I may butt in... You've got a habit that makes people very angry, which is probably your point -- you take what anyone says, twist it into something they didn't say but that you want to believe that they said so that you can attack it, and then go for it like an attack dog. It's not a cute game, and it's part of what's wrong with our society -- no ability to engage in a reasoned debate, just twisting someone's words until spraining them and then going on the attack. For those who try to speak clearly and say what they mean (and mean what they say), it's infuriating. Cut it out. :glare:
"The dew has fallen with a particularly sickening thud this morning."
- Marvin the Paranoid Android, "Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy"

Rules for Surviving an Autocracy
Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
http://www.nybooks.c...s-for-survival/

#71 Bad Wolf

Bad Wolf

    Luck is when opportunity meets preparation

  • Islander
  • 38,881 posts

Posted 04 July 2003 - 03:35 PM

^

Thank you.
Posted Image

#72 QueenTiye

QueenTiye

    Behavior is not reproducible over multiple trials.

  • Islander
  • 24,302 posts

Posted 04 July 2003 - 03:52 PM

Ogami, on Jul 3 2003, 08:31 PM, said:

Pardon me Enmar, I was busy responding to a Nigerian email that looked honest to me. The wife of the Nigerian information minister was telling me all about how they have some assets frozen, but if I send them a couple thousand dollars, they'll give me a share.

What was that about the honesty of African money schemes?

-Ogami
Sorry to interject here.

We have all seen these emails.  And unfortunately they smear Nigeria fairly badly.  I happen to have a good friend from Nigeria who would never do such a thing.  But it's become so prevalent that just saying "Nigeria" means "Scam artist."

In my line of work, I've been confronted with opportunities to expand our efforts into Africa including Nigeria - and in one case was invited by a Nigerian to participate in a joint effort - it was met with derision and such... but I insisted that we at least give the guy a chance - he seemed to be legitimate, and had good credentials... and so far it is turning out very positively.  There are some elements around the edges that I'm watching - but nothing that we can't root out quickly if we had to...

My point being that we have to be careful not to paint everyone from a particular country with the ugly brush of prejudice.

I'm editing because I think I made it sound like I was so "above" the prejudice shown - I'm not.  My initial reaction to an email from a Nigerian was skepticism too.  But I did feel strongly enough that we should give the benefit of the doubt that I looked into it more...  Just didn't want to be sounding holier-than-thou...

Sorry to be off topic....

Edited by QueenTiye, 05 July 2003 - 03:03 AM.

Een Draght Mackt Maght


#73 Bad Wolf

Bad Wolf

    Luck is when opportunity meets preparation

  • Islander
  • 38,881 posts

Posted 04 July 2003 - 04:07 PM

^



I don't think you're off topic at all.  Indeed, I think you've gotten right to the heart of the matter.

Lil
Posted Image

#74 Julie

Julie
  • Islander
  • 777 posts

Posted 05 July 2003 - 06:33 AM

Una Salus Lillius, on Jul 3 2003, 09:04 PM, said:

If you don't appreciate being told you sound like a misogenystic jerk maybe you ought to make a better effort at not SOUNDING like one.
Hey, anyone remember that thread on the use of "homophobia"?  I'm beginning to think we need a discussion like that on "misogynist" as well.  

It's difficult for me to respect someone's points when they're throwing around such a loaded word.  (Not trying to single you out here Lil; this has been irritating me for a while.)

#75 Bad Wolf

Bad Wolf

    Luck is when opportunity meets preparation

  • Islander
  • 38,881 posts

Posted 05 July 2003 - 06:39 AM

^

Get a dictionary if you think I'm using words that are too big or loaded for you.  I'm not going to dumb down my vocabulary for you or anyone else.  I used the word I used because it was PRECISELY what I meant and I don't much give a damn if you don't like it.
Posted Image

#76 Julie

Julie
  • Islander
  • 777 posts

Posted 05 July 2003 - 07:33 AM

Una Salus Lillius, on Jul 4 2003, 03:35 PM, said:

^

Get a dictionary if you think I'm using words that are too big or loaded for you.  I'm not going to dumb down my vocabulary for you or anyone else.  I used the word I used because it was PRECISELY what I meant and I don't much give a damn if you don't like it.

Thank you for your suggestion, but I already have a dictionary.  It is, granted, rather old, and three of the tabs with the letters on them have fallen off.  I intend to buy a new one soon.  Until I replace it, I’m reliant on online dictionaries for more up-to-date definitions.  In fact, I consulted two online dictionaries before posting my previous comment, and just now checked my old dictionary just to make certain I wasn’t missing anything.  

All three sources were quite consistent.  They all defined “misogynist” as “hatred of women” (although one, IIRC, said “pertaining to or defined by hatred of women”).  Hate, as you’ve probably heard people say, is a very strong word, and most people who are accused of misogyny do not actually hate women.  That’s why I disagree with its usage.  

I don't generally disagree with the usage of “big” words and I’m not sure why you assume that I need or desire for you to dumb down your vocabulary.  Was it because I said “misogynist” was a loaded word?  I meant emotionally loaded— as I said, usually when I hear it used, it’s too strong for the situation.

I admit, in your quote, you only said that Ogami sounded like a misogynist jerk.  I would hesitate to tell someone they even sounded like a misogynist, but then, I’d also hesitate use “jerk”.  

You, obviously, hold your comments to different standards.  Fair enough.  I still think misogynist is over-used.

#77 Bad Wolf

Bad Wolf

    Luck is when opportunity meets preparation

  • Islander
  • 38,881 posts

Posted 05 July 2003 - 07:55 AM

You ought to know by now that I say what I mean.

The term fit the situation perfectly.  I call it as I see it.

If you don't like it feel free to ignore.  No skin off my nose.

:)
Posted Image



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Rape, Gang Rape, Kenya

0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users