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Sex offenders can't be banned from parks

Crime Sex Offenders Restrictions

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#21 Rhea

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Posted 04 July 2003 - 04:09 AM

Una Salus Lillius, on Jul 3 2003, 09:46 AM, said:

So the law should be changed how?

"No one who has predatory thoughts is allowed in public places where there are children."???


Really, how should the law be changed?

How about this:

"Anyone convicted of a sex crime is hereby banned forever from parks, schools, and any other place where children may be".

:wacko:

Why not just keep them locked up?
Wait, wait! You forgot a bunch of places: supermarkets, malls, movie theatres, drug stores, sidewalks. :p :p

Honest to God! I think child molesters are the scum of the earth, and I do think you could reasonably restrict them from working or hanging around places like schools or other child-exclusive environments. Beyond that, you might as well just keep them in jail, because I don't see how you could write a law that would let them go to SOME public places but not others.

--Rhea, who is sincerely hoping that the Thought Police don't kick in for real
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#22 Bad Wolf

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Posted 04 July 2003 - 04:12 AM

I disagree even with that limitation Rhea.  If the point of getting out of jail is that you've paid for the crime then you've paid.

If you haven't paid, i.e., you still are going to be a criminal or it's going to be assumed that you are especially based on thoughts of all things then you obviously haven't paid yet and you should still be in jail.

It can't (or shouldn't) be both ways.
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#23 Rhea

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Posted 04 July 2003 - 04:26 AM

Una Salus Lillius, on Jul 3 2003, 10:13 AM, said:

I disagree even with that limitation Rhea.  If the point of getting out of jail is that you've paid for the crime then you've paid.

If you haven't paid, i.e., you still are going to be a criminal or it's going to be assumed that you are especially based on thoughts of all things then you obviously haven't paid yet and you should still be in jail.

It can't (or shouldn't) be both ways.
Well, we can disagree on that one then. Child molesters are notorious repeat offenders. They never stop. Never.

I think you could make a legitimate case for keeping them out of a job that deals with children, like working in a school. In fact, they do sometimes make it part of the terms of probation, IIRC. And for a good reason. Truthfully, I think child molesters should be neutered. :glare:

But I don't like the whole notion of the Thought Police any more than you do.

Edited by Rhea, 04 July 2003 - 04:26 AM.

The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#24 Lover of Purple

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Posted 04 July 2003 - 04:31 AM

Una Salus Lillius, on Jul 3 2003, 09:13 AM, said:

I disagree even with that limitation Rhea.  If the point of getting out of jail is that you've paid for the crime then you've paid.

If you haven't paid, i.e., you still are going to be a criminal or it's going to be assumed that you are especially based on thoughts of all things then you obviously haven't paid yet and you should still be in jail.

It can't (or shouldn't) be both ways.
Just a question, Lil. I'm not judging anyone in all of this since it is a very hard situation: "How far to we go with freedoms to protect the innocent". I wish I knew.

Anyway, my question. Does this mean you are against informing people in a neighborhood that a sexual preditor or child molester has moved into the area?

Again, I'm not judging or anything, I just was curious.

LoP

#25 Bad Wolf

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Posted 04 July 2003 - 04:33 AM

^

actually now that you mention it, I AM against that.

I personally think that if a sex offender is going to be penalized for life then the answer is life in prison.  (Which I don't oppose).

But this business of encouraging gang like mentalities against people who've supposedly "paid" for their crimes is imho about as "Un American" as anything I can think of.
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#26 CJ AEGIS

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Posted 04 July 2003 - 04:41 AM

Iím with Lil (except the Canada part since Australia is nice) and Uncle Sid on this one.
"History has proven too often and too recently that the nation which relaxes its defenses invites attack."
        -Fleet Admiral Nimitz
"Their sailors say they should have flight pay and sub pay both -- they're in the air half the time, under the water the other half""
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#27 Bad Wolf

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Posted 04 July 2003 - 04:43 AM

CJ AEGIS, on Jul 3 2003, 10:42 AM, said:

Iím with Lil (except the Canada part since Australia is nice) and Uncle Sid on this one.
Australia is nice too:)

Um.......so lemme get this straight, I'm with Uncle Sid and Aegis on this... :unsure:

:hehe:

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#28 Lover of Purple

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Posted 04 July 2003 - 04:48 AM

Una Salus Lillius, on Jul 3 2003, 09:34 AM, said:

^

actually now that you mention it, I AM against that.

I personally think that if a sex offender is going to be penalized for life then the answer is life in prison.  (Which I don't oppose).

But this business of encouraging gang like mentalities against people who've supposedly "paid" for their crimes is imho about as "Un American" as anything I can think of.
Thank you for responding so fast. :)

And here we agree again. I've watched the news in Oregon show the entire state one of these people and how the neighborhood was warned and all I could think of was "If this person is trying to get their life straight, how will they?" "Will they always be branded?" "How will they ever live normal again?"

Personally I think only the police should know as a precaution, but it should never be public knowledge. I also thought they paid their price. And, as a parent, I had to think on this long and hard. Perhaps our laws and courts are too easy on these crimes.

Wish I knew the asnwer.

Edited by Lover of Purple, 04 July 2003 - 04:50 AM.


#29 QueenTiye

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Posted 04 July 2003 - 04:51 AM

Una Salus Lillius, on Jul 3 2003, 12:46 PM, said:

So the law should be changed how?


"Anyone convicted of a sex crime is hereby banned forever from parks, schools, and any other place where children may be".


Why not just keep them locked up?
Either of the above... ;)

Seriously... I think they should be under permanent house arrest.

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#30 Bad Wolf

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Posted 04 July 2003 - 04:51 AM

LOP I think our courts are too easy on these crimes.

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#31 CJ AEGIS

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Posted 04 July 2003 - 04:55 AM

Una Salus Lillius, on Jul 3 2003, 05:44 PM, said:

Um.......so lemme get this straight, I'm with Uncle Sid and Aegis on this... :unsure:

:hehe:
You are slowly turning into a Reaganite. ;)  

Seriously though from reading your posts you seem to be a fairly strictb Libertarian Constitutionalist who just happens to be a liberal. ;)  Iíll take that over a Conservative Authoritarian who wants to burn the Bill of Rights any day of the week.
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#32 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 04 July 2003 - 08:44 AM

I was never in agreement with Megan's law, for the exact reason Lil mentioned. It turns a nice neighborhood into a "vigalante Mob" whose sole aim in life is to pursecute the convicted felon who has paid his debt to society.

If the neighborhood should be allowed to know when a convicted sex offender is moving in, why not when a convicted bank robber? Or a convicted murderer? Hell, why not just have it so that whenever somebody moves into a neighborhood, their entire life, and all their secrets (Whether they cheated on college exams, cheated on their spouse, ect) has to be revealed...to make sure they are "Ideologically pure"

As much as it galls me, these convicted people to have rights. You can argue that they shouldn't, but they do. That's the bottom line of it. Yes, usually as a condition of their parole they can't go to places where there are children, for example: Parks, Churches, malls, ect. However, once their parole is up....they can legally do what they feel like. Go to a park, ect.

And as for the example of:

Quote

Take the computer cops who lure adults to a city by posing as an underaged kid, then arrest them when they get off the plane. Yes - the person went to another city; yes - he was looking for an underaged kid; yes - we should protect little kids however possible. But in the end, there was no little kid!

This seems like entrapment to me.
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Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

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#33 Gaiate

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Posted 04 July 2003 - 11:29 AM

^

As I understand it, it's only entrapment if the officer directly initiates the criminal act.  If the officer is only posing as a minor, and the adult initiates it, then they're fair game.

--Te
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#34 Rov Judicata

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Posted 04 July 2003 - 11:39 AM

It's not entrapment any more than it is for a police officer to pose as a prostitute.
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Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
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#35 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 04 July 2003 - 03:38 PM

Javert Rovinski, on Jul 3 2003, 08:35 PM, said:

It's not entrapment any more than it is for a police officer to pose as a prostitute.
LOL. I consider that also entrapment...LOL
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#36 Rov Judicata

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Posted 04 July 2003 - 03:50 PM

LORD of the SWORD, on Jul 3 2003, 09:34 PM, said:

Javert Rovinski, on Jul 3 2003, 08:35 PM, said:

It's not entrapment any more than it is for a police officer to pose as a prostitute.
LOL. I consider that also entrapment...LOL
:blink:.

May I ask what your definition of entrapment is...?
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. ß 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#37 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 04 July 2003 - 06:58 PM

Javert Rovinski, on Jul 4 2003, 12:46 AM, said:

May I ask what your definition of entrapment is...?

Quote

Main Entry: en∑trap∑ment
Pronunciation: -m&nt
Function: noun
Date: 1597
1 a : the action or process of entrapping b : the condition of being entrapped
2 : the action of luring an individual into committing a crime in order to prosecute the person for it

I'm referring to the second defination.

Having a undercover cop posing as a prostitute falls into that description. Granted, the "John" probably would've tried to get another hooker, but you don't know for certain if he would've.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#38 Bad Wolf

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Posted 04 July 2003 - 07:31 PM

Crime is all about the intent of the perpetrator.

If the person intends to hire a hooker, and acts in furtherance of that intent, it actually is irrelevant whether the person he or she was approaching is in fact a hooker.

Note my emphasis on the "act in furtherance of".  Again, I am one million percent against "thought" crimes. That said, intent is the key.  It has to be.

Lil
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