Jump to content


Getting an "Insecure Connection" warning for Exisle? No worry

Details in this thread

A question about the Soul of a person with Multiple Personalities

Mental Health Multiple personalities 2008

  • Please log in to reply
24 replies to this topic

#1 Lord of the Sword

Lord of the Sword
  • Islander
  • 15,681 posts

Posted 20 October 2008 - 01:11 AM

Given the constant bombardment of politics on TV, and even on this board...I thought I'd start a topic about this, since I was curious about the answer.

If Person X has MPD (multiple Personality Disorder), does each personality have it's own Soul? I mean, is there more then one soul in the one body? I mean it only stands to reason that they should...For example. Say Person x has 2 personalities...One a God fearing person, hard working, never harmed a person in their life. Personality 2, however, is a criminal. A rapist, murderer, ect...Or even better yet, say personality 2 is a Satanist...Yeah, that works best for this question.

So, Person X has 2 personalities...One a christian, then Second a Satanist...So now when Person X dies, where does his Soul go? Does it go to Heaven? Or Hell? Or does he have 2 souls, one for each personality? Or does it matter which personality was in charge when he died?

What do you guys think?
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#2 D'Monix

D'Monix
  • Islander
  • 4,060 posts

Posted 20 October 2008 - 01:35 AM

Or one soul originally and the others end up hitching a ride through one means or another, not quite a merger but end up inhabiting the same body.  If that was the case when the personality flips it would be akin to a case of possession by another spirit residing the in the same body.  

D'

#3 GiGi

GiGi

    Lipstick wearing PIG kisser!

  • Islander
  • 8,774 posts

Posted 20 October 2008 - 03:24 AM

Having studied psychology and the metaphysical and having a mother with a split personality (at times I thought she was actually possessed by another entity, a demonic one at that) it could be a fractured soul and one that hasn't the strength to keep other spirits out.  So I pretty much agree with what D'Monix said.
"Life is as dear to a mute creature as it is to man. Just as one wants happiness and fears pain, just as one wants to live and not die, so do all creatures." -- HH The Dalai Lama

#4 Broph

Broph
  • Islander
  • 6,671 posts

Posted 20 October 2008 - 05:59 AM

One man; one vote; one soul.

#5 Christopher

Christopher
  • Demigod
  • 32,919 posts

Posted 20 October 2008 - 09:13 AM

A person with dissociative identity disorder (as multiple personality disorder is now called) doesn't actually have multiple complete personalities residing within one's brain (which is why the name was changed).  Rather, a single mind is partitioned into fragments of itself that appear to operate independently.  It's believed to be a defense mechanism in which a traumatized mind insulates itself from the trauma by shunting the associated feelings, memories, attitudes, etc. off into a second subpersonality and convinces itself that they're part of a different person.  Either that or it's a sort of hypnotic state created by therapists so eager to discover something excitingly weird that they ask leading questions and manipulate their patients into believing they have multiple personalities -- it depends on whom you ask.  Just as with recovered memory, there's controversy over whether it's genuine or a self-fulfilling prophecy created by therapists who are fishing for it and molding their patients' minds in the image of their expectations.  Either way, the multiple identities are merely delusions created and believed in by a single mind.  So we're not talking about spiritual possession or anything like that.

To a large extent, mental illnesses are often just exaggerated forms of normal thought processes.  We all have different facets to our personalities that coexist and shift in dominance; as Deanna Troi once put it in a Star Trek: TNG episode, "When you ask yourself if you made the right decision, who are you talking to?"  We alter our personalities in different situations; you may be a very different person in private with your significant other than you are at the office or when hanging around with your friends.  Another good illustration is how puppeteers and ventriloquists behave.  The puppet or dummy often seems like a different person from the performer, and often a much more uninhibited one.  The performer is essentially giving himself a second voice, one he can pretend is separate from himself, and thus he lets that second personality behave in a way that's free from his own inhibitions, because he doesn't have to take responsibility for it.  DID is basically taking that to an extreme, to the point that the performer actually believes the other personality is real and separate.

So if you choose to use the word "soul" to describe the essence of a human identity, then a soul is a complex, multifaceted thing, something that can conflict with itself and even subdivide itself in extreme cases.  But it remains a singular whole, even when it believes itself fragmented.

Edited by Christopher, 20 October 2008 - 09:17 AM.

"You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right." -- xkcd

"The first man to raise a fist is the man who's run out of ideas." -- "H. G. Wells," Time After Time


Written Worlds -- My homepage and blog
Facebook Author Page

#6 Lyric of Delphi

Lyric of Delphi

    A little too much LDS

  • Islander
  • 9,092 posts

Posted 20 October 2008 - 09:40 AM

Perfect post, Chris! I can't think of anything to add to that.

#7 Nonny

Nonny

    Scourge of Pretentious Bad Latin

  • Islander
  • 31,142 posts

Posted 20 October 2008 - 09:51 AM

View PostChristopher, on Oct 20 2008, 07:13 AM, said:

To a large extent, mental illnesses are often just exaggerated forms of normal thought processes.
Interesting way to put it.  From my own experience of PTSD, I recognize a distinct up side as well as the better known down side, but find it hard to explain.
Posted Image


The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#8 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

  • Islander
  • 9,215 posts

Posted 20 October 2008 - 09:51 AM

Thanks for a break from the political post LOTS ;)

I think you'd first have to decide various things to come to a (your own) conclusion, few of which can be proven.


First of all: Do you believe in souls. And in Multiple Personality Disorder (now known as dissociative identity disorder).


Second of all: If you do believe in both: What do you believe the natures of these things are.

Souls:
a) Is a soul an individualized thing that influences a person's personality? As in there are evil souls and good souls, and ones in-between?

b) Or, as some people say, are near all people capable of near all things (put in the right circumstances). Is that coming from the soul? So souls very similar to each other? (Humans share much more in common then we have differences).

Dissociative Identity Disorder:
c) Is it actually two separate personalities?

d) Or are they two extreme facets to the same ill person? We all are multi-faceted.


If one believes a), one I imagine is most likely to believe c). Of course, the 2nd soul doesn't necessarily have to have been with that person all along, as other people have mentioned up thread :D

If one believes b), one could believe c) or d), but I imagine would most likely pick d).
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#9 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

  • Islander
  • 9,215 posts

Posted 20 October 2008 - 09:56 AM

View PostNonny, on Oct 20 2008, 10:51 AM, said:

View PostChristopher, on Oct 20 2008, 07:13 AM, said:

To a large extent, mental illnesses are often just exaggerated forms of normal thought processes.
Interesting way to put it.  From my own experience of PTSD, I recognize a distinct up side as well as the better known down side, but find it hard to explain.

That's my thought too, I've been reading a lot about some particular disorders recently. I think they are exaggerate forms of normal thought processes, you could put it on a bell curve if you could quantify it, and the people society determined "mentally ill" in society are at one or the other end of the bell curve. For that particular variable(s) on that human facet anyways. Doesn't mean they are at the end of the bell curve for all human variables by any means.
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#10 Christopher

Christopher
  • Demigod
  • 32,919 posts

Posted 20 October 2008 - 10:07 AM

View Postsierraleone, on Oct 20 2008, 10:56 AM, said:

I've been reading a lot about some particular disorders recently. I think they are exaggerate forms of normal thought processes, you could put it on a bell curve if you could quantify it, and the people society determined "mentally ill" in society are at one or the other end of the bell curve. For that particular variable(s) on that human facet anyways. Doesn't mean they are at the end of the bell curve for all human variables by any means.

Yup.  For instance, autism is an extreme case of a sort of "nerdy" behavior, rational, patterned, not very socially adept; indeed, many people who have just been considered nerdy types may actually have high-function autism or Asperger's (and I've often suspected I may be one of them, though I've never pursued a diagnosis).  And schizophrenics (unrelated to "split personality," despite popular usage) have been shown to have a certain part of the brain overdeveloped, a part of the brain that's also highly developed in artists, writers, actors, scientists, inventors, priests, philosophers, etc -- basically, anyone with a strong capacity for imagining things beyond objective reality.  Schizophrenia is what happens when that's taken to the extreme; the imagined realities become so intense that they swamp objective reality altogether.  (So I'm probably borderline crazy in two different ways.  At least. :hehe: :wacko: )

Edited by Christopher, 20 October 2008 - 10:07 AM.

"You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right." -- xkcd

"The first man to raise a fist is the man who's run out of ideas." -- "H. G. Wells," Time After Time


Written Worlds -- My homepage and blog
Facebook Author Page

#11 Nonny

Nonny

    Scourge of Pretentious Bad Latin

  • Islander
  • 31,142 posts

Posted 20 October 2008 - 10:15 AM

View Postsierraleone, on Oct 20 2008, 07:56 AM, said:

View PostNonny, on Oct 20 2008, 10:51 AM, said:

View PostChristopher, on Oct 20 2008, 07:13 AM, said:

To a large extent, mental illnesses are often just exaggerated forms of normal thought processes.
Interesting way to put it.  From my own experience of PTSD, I recognize a distinct up side as well as the better known down side, but find it hard to explain.

That's my thought too, I've been reading a lot about some particular disorders recently. I think they are exaggerate forms of normal thought processes, you could put it on a bell curve if you could quantify it, and the people society determined "mentally ill" in society are at one or the other end of the bell curve. For that particular variable(s) on that human facet anyways. Doesn't mean they are at the end of the bell curve for all human variables by any means.
Did you know that learning to read at a very young age is considered a mental disability by some?  Can't remember what it's called, something like hyperliteracy.    :rolleyes:
Posted Image


The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#12 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

  • Islander
  • 9,215 posts

Posted 20 October 2008 - 10:23 AM

View PostNonny, on Oct 20 2008, 11:15 AM, said:

View Postsierraleone, on Oct 20 2008, 07:56 AM, said:

View PostNonny, on Oct 20 2008, 10:51 AM, said:

View PostChristopher, on Oct 20 2008, 07:13 AM, said:

To a large extent, mental illnesses are often just exaggerated forms of normal thought processes.
Interesting way to put it.  From my own experience of PTSD, I recognize a distinct up side as well as the better known down side, but find it hard to explain.

That's my thought too, I've been reading a lot about some particular disorders recently. I think they are exaggerate forms of normal thought processes, you could put it on a bell curve if you could quantify it, and the people society determined "mentally ill" in society are at one or the other end of the bell curve. For that particular variable(s) on that human facet anyways. Doesn't mean they are at the end of the bell curve for all human variables by any means.
Did you know that learning to read at a very young age is considered a mental disability by some?  Can't remember what it's called, something like hyperliteracy.    :rolleyes:

Yeah, that's the translation of it I think. Hyperlexia is the term. Not neccessarily a mental disability, but at the far top end of the bell curve, instead of the bottom. They can both be seen as disorders depending on how they affect a person's function. For something like this that gives four short paragraphs in wikipedia, I don't really trust it, but they say that hyperlexia may be co-morbid in some cases with Autism Spectrum Disorders (which means maybe as high function as Aspergers). That these kids sometimes have trouble's with communicating verbally, but often make great strides between ages of 4-5, so if true, parents may not think much on it as their kid gets older.
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#13 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

  • Islander
  • 9,215 posts

Posted 20 October 2008 - 10:44 AM

View PostChristopher, on Oct 20 2008, 11:07 AM, said:

View Postsierraleone, on Oct 20 2008, 10:56 AM, said:

I've been reading a lot about some particular disorders recently. I think they are exaggerate forms of normal thought processes, you could put it on a bell curve if you could quantify it, and the people society determined "mentally ill" in society are at one or the other end of the bell curve. For that particular variable(s) on that human facet anyways. Doesn't mean they are at the end of the bell curve for all human variables by any means.

Yup.  For instance, autism is an extreme case of a sort of "nerdy" behavior, rational, patterned, not very socially adept; indeed, many people who have just been considered nerdy types may actually have high-function autism or Asperger's (and I've often suspected I may be one of them, though I've never pursued a diagnosis).  And schizophrenics (unrelated to "split personality," despite popular usage) have been shown to have a certain part of the brain overdeveloped, a part of the brain that's also highly developed in artists, writers, actors, scientists, inventors, priests, philosophers, etc -- basically, anyone with a strong capacity for imagining things beyond objective reality.  Schizophrenia is what happens when that's taken to the extreme; the imagined realities become so intense that they swamp objective reality altogether.  (So I'm probably borderline crazy in two different ways.  At least. :hehe: :wacko: )

That what I've been reading about, along with a bit on schizoid personality disorder, and a few other things. On my mom's side I have a cousin w/ Autism. (is it suspected or diagnosed? I can't recall... his mother had to take seizure medication while pregnant so there's speculation that could have had something to do with his developmental difficulties. He's verbal, but does not *seem* really present. I could say the same about myself ;) But I don't think my eyes have that glazed over look as his does. Can really say since my eyes are both firmly in my head ;) ) On my dad's side, I had some great Aunts with schizophrenia. I suspect an uncle (or two?) of having perhaps schizoid personality disorder. Of course, thats just speculative. One interesting thing I've found in my readings is, since Aspergers diagnosis just came to North American in 1994(?) in to our DMSV4, that a lot of adults before then, if they went (or were pushed into) help were, if they received a diagnosis, were mis-diagnosed. Its probably hard enough to diagnose adults now. Just as it took a long time for learning disabilities to get recongized. I learned that my Dad once had to take an IQ test for work (he was disabled and it was unionized so they wanted to retrain him for something else) and he was in the lowest 5 percentile. Was he really that low, or did he have a learning/developmental disability? My sister suspects she has dyslexia because her strong problems in reading, spelling. I know my mom didn't have trouble there, so I wonder if my Dad had it.

Edited by sierraleone, 20 October 2008 - 11:37 AM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#14 Bobby

Bobby

    FKA LiberalBob

  • Islander
  • 4,369 posts

Posted 20 October 2008 - 10:50 AM

I once heard this explanation, think of yourself as a tv, the soul is the electricity that powers the body/mind and is eternal,  the mind is like the tv station/channel and can be changed so that would be what the multiple personalities would be, different channels but coming through the same soul, and the body is of course the box.  

And you used multiple personalities but you could include alzheimers in that because you forget who you are and what you know.  The soul is eternal, the mind is not.

#15 Christopher

Christopher
  • Demigod
  • 32,919 posts

Posted 20 October 2008 - 11:34 AM

View PostNonny, on Oct 20 2008, 11:15 AM, said:

Did you know that learning to read at a very young age is considered a mental disability by some?  Can't remember what it's called, something like hyperliteracy.    :rolleyes:

Well then I guess that's a third way I'm loony, because I was reading at age three.  I literally cannot remember a time when I couldn't read.  As a kid, I just assumed everyone could.  When I was 4 or 5 and a neighbor a year older than myself said she couldn't read, I thought she was lying.
"You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right." -- xkcd

"The first man to raise a fist is the man who's run out of ideas." -- "H. G. Wells," Time After Time


Written Worlds -- My homepage and blog
Facebook Author Page

#16 Rhys

Rhys

    ... a learning experience.

  • Islander
  • 5,491 posts

Posted 20 October 2008 - 12:00 PM

For anyone who wants some interesting insight into what it's like for someone with MPD/DID, I'd recommend the novel Set this House in Order by Matt Ruff.

While I can't really speak from an "inside perspective", Mr. Ruff apparently based the story on discussion with a friend who did have MPD/DID, and I feel it really gave me some insight into the condition.

Rhys
"It's easy to bond over hating something together - The Internet is total proof of that." Cyd/Codex, The Guild

Change the world!  No one can do everything, but everyone can do something.

#17 Lord of the Sword

Lord of the Sword
  • Islander
  • 15,681 posts

Posted 20 October 2008 - 12:10 PM

View PostDisturbia, on Oct 20 2008, 11:50 AM, said:

And you used multiple personalities but you could include alzheimers in that because you forget who you are and what you know.  The soul is eternal, the mind is not.

True, I did forget that one.

But according to what I remember of Catholic teaching, and I'm using that religion since it is the one I'm most familiar with...If a person does evil, their soul is "tainted" and when they die they go to Hell for punishment.

But if a person with 2 personalities...one good, one evil dies...where does the soul go?
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#18 Bobby

Bobby

    FKA LiberalBob

  • Islander
  • 4,369 posts

Posted 20 October 2008 - 12:17 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on Oct 20 2008, 12:10 PM, said:

View PostDisturbia, on Oct 20 2008, 11:50 AM, said:

And you used multiple personalities but you could include alzheimers in that because you forget who you are and what you know.  The soul is eternal, the mind is not.

True, I did forget that one.

But according to what I remember of Catholic teaching, and I'm using that religion since it is the one I'm most familiar with...If a person does evil, their soul is "tainted" and when they die they go to Hell for punishment.

But if a person with 2 personalities...one good, one evil dies...where does the soul go?

Isn't Catholism the one that believes in purgatory?   And then there's the fact that in most cases when a person tries to commit suicide they aren't sane/right thinking, and the Catholics used to teach that the person goes to hell.  My opinion, I think their is just one soul per body, if we have one at all, and that humans are flawed, and God being great and wise, would understand and forgive the "good" half for the stuff the "evil" half did.  Of course, if you believe the bible, god wiped out good people with the bad, hell if you believe John Hagee for that matter, cause all of New Orleans got hit, not just teh gays.     Of course, I long ago accepted I am the whole catasprophe so GOD can do with me as it will, I'm just human, so is everyone else.

#19 SparkyCola

SparkyCola
  • Islander
  • 14,904 posts

Posted 20 October 2008 - 12:17 PM

^^ As Christopher pointed out, no one has "two personalities" as such, they just have one personality which is fragmented. Therefore, the soul would be a combination of those "two personalities". Whether they go to heaven or hell is really up to the big guy though ;)

edited for being a slow poster today..people keep posting ahead of me :p

Sparky

Edited by SparkyCola, 20 October 2008 - 12:18 PM.

Able to entertain a thought without taking it home to meet the parents

#20 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

  • Islander
  • 9,215 posts

Posted 20 October 2008 - 12:18 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on Oct 20 2008, 01:10 PM, said:

View PostDisturbia, on Oct 20 2008, 11:50 AM, said:

And you used multiple personalities but you could include alzheimers in that because you forget who you are and what you know.  The soul is eternal, the mind is not.

True, I did forget that one.

But according to what I remember of Catholic teaching, and I'm using that religion since it is the one I'm most familiar with...If a person does evil, their soul is "tainted" and when they die they go to Hell for punishment.

But if a person with 2 personalities...one good, one evil dies...where does the soul go?

Did they confess/ask forgiveness just before death ;) If so straight to heaven! (via Catholic tradition anyways)
Were they baptized? ok ok, I'll stop being cheeky ;)
(though if you are asking for a Catholic opinion, dogmatic or lay, I really can't give it. You might want to clarify whether you want a scholarish discussion, or just the unwashed masses speculation, or if you want the former, but don't mind the latter either.)

I guess it depends on how you think God looks at it. Assuming one believes in God in the first place. Does god have some measuring stick? All people sin. Are all sins equal in your God's eye? Does the intent matter? Duration of the sins? Ratio of good deeds to bad deeds. Some overly complicated formula with all of the above? Personally if I strongly believed in an afterlife, I don't think I'd believe strongly in hell.

Edited by sierraleone, 20 October 2008 - 12:19 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Mental Health, Multiple personalities, 2008

0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users