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#41 Josh

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Posted 12 July 2003 - 07:54 PM

^

It's a domino effect. One person is disconnected from themselves (and friends) and that extends to other people they know and then onward down the chain.

It's hard to live these days. I think it's always been that way and as young people, we are all still learning what it is to be alive in this society, but it's definitely a lot to absorb.
"THE UNICORNS ARE NOT TO BE TRIFLED WITH!" - John Burke.

#42 sierraleone

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Posted 12 July 2003 - 08:10 PM

^I am introverted, so I seem disconnected from everyone :p :D But I do not *think* I am disconnected from myself, and if I am, not very much. But I do not like have a million superfluous relationships. The only ones I have are neccessary. Co-workers, people who work were I regularly buy things, etc. It sees to me, quite a few extroverted people have a lot of aquaintance ¨friends¨ that do not count for much of anything. Especially young extroverts seem to have lots of ¨friends¨. But then, I have the most experience with teenagers and young adults. But I definitely know that going out and partying every night does not mean you are any more connected to yourself or others :D But niether is definately what I do. I know I am connected to myself, because I know who I am. Do not know what I am going to be yet ;) (as relates to career choices), but I feel pretty sure about me, as a person. but I do lots of reading, and other ¨geeky¨ things, which can just as easily disconnect someone from themself and others. I know I am disconnected from (most) others, and I am not sure I care to change it. Most people out there are not worth the effort :p :D and I am happy to hang by myself most of the time.

Now, what is all this garble? I do not know why I wrote that. The point I do not know... Its 2 am.... its time for me to go to bed :D
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#43 Drew

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Posted 12 July 2003 - 11:55 PM

sierraleone, on Jul 12 2003, 02:00 AM, said:

Boys are taught from an early age to disconnect from their feelings and or cover their feelings with anger. Anger and aggression is always an appropiate response... if it isnèt down right suppression of their emotions. Showing your ¨weak¨ feelings is bad.... I feel sorry for my brother, I am glad I wasnèt a boy, no offense to guys.
But . . . but anger IS a feeling. So children who use anger and aggression aren't suppressing at all. They're expressing their anger with aggression.

Men and women suppress and express emotions, it's just that they do it differently. A woman may expect a man to express his emotions in the same way that a woman does; and when he doesn't, she'll just say he's suppressing. Or, if he is expressing his emotions, she might tell him that his manner of expressing them isn't appropriate. Perhaps if he just cried more instead of going out whacking golf balls.

I think very few people have the ability to completely suppress emotions. They simply express them differently. Even if you THINK you're suppressing emotions, that emotion still manifests itself in some fashion. Most people I know who at one time or another thought they were keeping a lid on it were completely unaware that they were expressing to everyone around them. (Me included.  :cool: )
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#44 Drew

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Posted 13 July 2003 - 12:00 AM

sierraleone, on Jul 12 2003, 04:06 AM, said:

I know I am disconnected from (most) others, and I am not sure I care to change it. Most people out there are not worth the effort   and I am happy to hang by myself most of the time.
People are most definitely worth it. They are the most valuable things there are.
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#45 sierraleone

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Posted 13 July 2003 - 03:45 AM

Drew, on Jul 12 2003, 04:51 AM, said:

Or, if he is expressing his emotions, she might tell him that his manner of expressing them isn't appropriate.
Thats what I was trying to get at, they express it as something else, whether appropiate or not. When my brother is sad, guilty, frusterated, grieved, hurt, depressed, and nearly all negative emotions, he expresses it as anger. And in no way do I think this is natural for all men. Yes, I have expressed those emotions as anger on occasion. But every time? I think boys are taught not to show ¨weak¨emotions as what they are, and instead bottle things up and take it out as aggression or anger. And if you lash out with anger, no one really sees the underlying problem and or emotion, they just see this anger.
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#46 sierraleone

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Posted 13 July 2003 - 03:53 AM

Drew, on Jul 12 2003, 04:56 AM, said:

sierraleone, on Jul 12 2003, 04:06 AM, said:

I know I am disconnected from (most) others, and I am not sure I care to change it. Most people out there are not worth the effort   and I am happy to hang by myself most of the time.
People are most definitely worth it. They are the most valuable things there are.
What about plants, other animals, etc :p :D Just joking around, but I do not think of humans as more worth it, literally or figuretively, than any other living things (be it animal, plant, fungi, bacteria or protozoan). Its not that people are not worth it, they are not worth it for *me* because I tend to enjoy doing things by myself, or in small groups, and people who like to go to big parties just are not going to be the kind of people I hang out with, and it seems 99 % of people my age are like that. And I do not care for rumors, gossip, and other things that other people seem to talk about all the time. Who cares about those things? I ask myself. I do not, and if thats your main topic of conversation then I do not want to be there, bored to tears. All people my age seem to talk about is who is going out with who, who hurt who, how and why  :wacko: etc etc etc. People are worth it, hanging out with those who I wont get on with, is not ;) :)
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#47 ArmourMe

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Posted 13 July 2003 - 03:53 AM

What an interesting gender discussion this has turned into :)

In the process of recovering from a lot of sexual abuse, I did a lot of reserach & put a lot of thought into trying to figure out what mysoginy had done to men.  So much excellent writing has been done on what its done to women, people are just in the last decade getting around to writing about the damage done to men by being forced to suppress their feminine sides.  (John Stoltenburg has a facinating book out called "The End of Manhood" that's a really excellent breakdown of this kind of damage).

It was vitally important to me when I had my sons to continue this line of inquiry & try to make decisions on how to raise my male children based on my conclusions.  I was amazed to watch my oldest son's inherant MALE stuff come out so early :D  He'd never been given a toy car.  He'd never seen his dad work on a car.  He'd never had books about cars/trucks read to him (he loved animals so all his baby books were about animals).  But the first time he saw a big yellow excavator (9mos old) he FLIPPED OUT.  "DAT!  DAT!!!  WAT DAAAT????"  he's been obsessed with them ever since.

We live in an intentional community with 2 girl children.  Its by no means a controlled experiment!  But we have been careful enough that the behaviours that emerge are notable.  The boys and girls have equal access to dress up clothes, dolls, trucks, indoor climbing, outdoor climbing, books etc.  They've never been in daycare or been around children who've been socialized to the "gender norm"  We moms are as careful as we possibly can be about not reinforcing gender behaviour.  And indeed the boys do love make up and tutus....and the girls are climbing monkeys and can out climb both the boys anyday!

But even within their very protected environment with a heavy emphasis on communication over violence.....the boys are more aggressive, more violent even.  Just marginally so, but its visible, its there.  The boys are more likely to turn anger outward and hit or throw things.  The girls are more likely to crumble inwardly and be self destructive.  This can't be universally true of course.   I'm an exception to most gender rules - I was a total tomboy, so I'm not going to say that every male or every female is X way. But there ARE general trends - observation reveals them.  Sterotyping is destructive, but being aware of gender differences as they arise seems sensible.

My 5.5yo is an extremely sensitive boy.  His bursts of aggression are actually born OUT OF his overwhelming emotions.  He feels things very deeply - and if he's feeling bad about something he did, he's likely to pop - start hitting or screaming.  BECAUSE HE FEELS TRUE REMORSE.

What if I followed the social conventions of our culture and told him to be ashamed of his feelings/feminine side and focus only on his thinking/masculine side?  He'd rapidly lose touch with the feelings that motivate his behaviour.....and therefore lose touch with how to HELP his extreme behaviour.  It would be disasterous.

Since most boys in our culture are given this message in 1000 different ways (from being shamed for crying to seeing every tough boy on TV etc) they (as a group) are progressively more and more distanced from the attributes we think of as feminine.  Expunging the feminine side in any one of any gender results in a very unballanced human.  The levels of violence in our culture are one small testament to that.  So are the levels of depression.  The focus on material wealth.  Examples could be drawn from anywhere.

Heaven help us, we're in the middle of his 5yo testosterone surge (boys have a sudden high spike of testosterone between 4 and 6yo - close to the amount they'll have at the onset of puberty).  His aggressiveness and volatile emotions are at their peak right now.  I'm in the position of constantly insisting he follow rules of appropriate behaviour WHILE I comisserate with him on his overwhelming feelings & sensitivity.  What a ballance!  Often in the middle of an argument between them I'm coaching my son to be more aware & listen better & his friend-girl to stand up to him and be more assertive.  It couldn't be more textbook male/female......and these children have been as protected from sterotypes as possible :p

How much of gender is inherant?   How much is taught?  We'll probably never know.  I only know that a lot more appears to be inherant than I would have admitted before having my sons and watchin them BE male and watching myself (radical feminist incorporated) BECOME a nurturing totally involved mother.

There's no accounting for horemones :D

#48 ArmourMe

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Posted 13 July 2003 - 05:12 AM

I left out one of my thoughts.....too many thoughts :D  In the context of helping my oldest manage his need for physical outlets for all that aggressive energy, I often explain to him that I believe the aggressiveness he feels sometimes had a vital purpose in times past  and that he can chanel it to a similar purpose in his future.  

It would have been a huge attribute to any tribe to have some of the males able to have huge surges of energy to protect that tribe against enemies, animals, the weather.  Its a huge attribute to any gene line to have a male who's strong enough to attract (in some cultures win, in others take) a female & then protect the children & childbearing female as well as the extended tribe.

Unfortunately, there aren't the same outlets for that level of aggressive energy that there were for developing hominids.  My son can't go out w/ his uncles & older brothers and trail & hunt animals for days.  He can't practice war games with the other males of the tribe.  All his outlets have to be a bit bent in order to be approrpriate to today's culture.  He can be aggressive by hucking rocks into the stream, or hollering like a banshee as he plays outside, or by swimming till he's tired or by wrestling with other boys (though carefully).  None of these acceptable possibilities really let him feel like he wants to, though, and I empathise with him about this all the time.

There about 1000 amazing things a male with this edge of aggressive energy can do to use that incredible energy to further their lives, human lives etc etc.  Many of those intense achievements Delvo refers to involve men using that energy in an outward constructive way.  Its a distinctly male kind of energy - many women with strong male sides have it, too.   As women are less limited in our culture many women like this are rising to promininance.

But this intense energy is NOT the only way to make notable achievements.  There is tremendous power in empathy, in gentleness, in calmness.  A power just as capable of moving entire nations as aggressiveness.  Gandhi knew this.  Mother Theresa knows it.

I'm also raising my sons to be sensitive to the parts of them that are quiet, gentle, introspective and to honor these parts in themselves as well as in those around them.  Aggressive energy that bursts outward tends to invade those around - whether a 3yo knocking people down or 10yo forcing them to do what you want, either is invasive and unacceptable.  Tuning into the listening/recieveing side of ones self allows one to honor that aspect of other people......and makes one more likely not to invade it, knock it down or shut it up.

The tremendous damage of mysoginy has been the unballancing of both genders.  Men not allowed to ever have feminine attributes.  Women never allowed to have male ones while at the same time being despised for being exclusively female.  Damaged people do not make a healthy society - they seek power in any way they can get it.  It feels like the only way to survive, and often is.

Edited by ArmourMe, 13 July 2003 - 05:42 AM.


#49 Shalamar

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Posted 13 July 2003 - 05:22 AM

Drew writes:

Quote

I think very few people have the ability to completely suppress emotions. They simply express them differently. Even if you THINK you're suppressing emotions, that emotion still manifests itself in some fashion. Most people I know who at one time or another thought they were keeping a lid on it were completely unaware that they were expressing to everyone around them. (Me included.  )


I very much agree with you Drew. The emotions shine through

One philosophy says that emotions are litterally Energy in Motion...e-motion..and that to deny that they exist, or to try and truly suppress them is wrong, cutting yourself off/ disconnecting yourself is harmfull to one.

It say that you should learn to recognize, understand and accept all of your emotions..but it also states that one does Not have to act on them...

that it is Not always right to give into them..and that to me is the crux of the matter...people are not realizing this, and have somehow decided that 'letting it all hang out' is acceptable, and is an excuse for ..self indulgance..I guess might be a good term. That again, for  me, goes back to the core of being responsible for ones actions and deed, which I think we have mostly decided is something to be set aside.

AmourMe I find your  experiences with your children and the others fascinateing. I have no children, but I do have cats (not as huge a differernce as on might think) and I always neuter and spay as young as possible..but I do see definite differences in my males and females. Most of my males are very what one could call feminine..very nurturing, cuddlesome of the other cats etc..but they are also very much male in many ways...rough and tumble players, much more into the adventuresome side of life than the females they have grown up with..and many of my females are not very nurturing of the other cats and rescue kittens I get called upon to bottle feed and hand raise.

#50 sierraleone

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Posted 13 July 2003 - 05:32 AM

Quote

Men not allowed to ever have feminine attributes. Women never allowed to have male ones while at the same time being despised for being exclusively female.

And both are derided when the display things supposively exclusive to the other gender  :rolleyes:

You have got a PM ArmourMe :)

I agree how much is inherent and how much taught is almost never going to be known for certain. People are such a mishmash of genetics, enviroment, genetics influenced by enviroment, enviroment influenced by genetics.... quite an interesting dance it is.

IIRC, women tend to do better with endurance, while men tend to do better with, um, whats the word, arg! Basically what ArmourMe was describing :p :D
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#51 ArmourMe

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Posted 13 July 2003 - 06:00 AM

Shalamar, on Jul 12 2003, 06:18 PM, said:

AmourMe I find your  experiences with your children and the others fascinateing. I have no children, but I do have cats (not as huge a differernce as on might think) and I always neuter and spay as young as possible..but I do see definite differences in my males and females. Most of my males are very what one could call feminine..very nurturing, cuddlesome of the other cats etc..but they are also very much male in many ways...rough and tumble players, much more into the adventuresome side of life than the females they have grown up with..and many of my females are not very nurturing of the other cats and rescue kittens I get called upon to bottle feed and hand raise.
Shal - I agree :D  Mammals are mammals....and we are too.  There are huge social differences, but the biological gender differences are much less than one might think :D

So, to, are the similarities in losing nurturing upbringings.  Non-nurturing mammal mothers really mess with survival of the species!  But if you don't get nurtured as a child, there's a much greater chance you won't BE nurturing as an adult.  

My wild wild boys can be very nurturing, sensitive, fragile, cuddly - in actuality they are extremely ballanced little people.  I believe all humans come into the world within their own ballance of feminine & masculine attributes.  These attributes don't belong to either gender exclusively, certianly :D  Preserving the ballance & teaching the child to use his or her powers for good, as it were, is something our culture doesn't even begin to do.  :(

By homeschooling/unschooling my children, keeping them in the mix of real life, not squishing their natural inclinations, I hope that my sons will grow up retaining their own inherant ballance.  I hope they are as fulfilled hunting and gathering as they are playing with their babies and loveing their mates. :)

Edited by ArmourMe, 13 July 2003 - 06:05 AM.


#52 Josh

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Posted 13 July 2003 - 06:37 AM

Quote

But this intense energy is NOT the only way to make notable achievements.  There is tremendous power in empathy, in gentleness, in calmness.  A power just as capable of moving entire nations as aggressiveness.  Gandhi knew this.  Mother Theresa knows it.

I agree with this. Big time. And I think you rock. :D The world could use more parents like you.
"THE UNICORNS ARE NOT TO BE TRIFLED WITH!" - John Burke.

#53 sierraleone

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Posted 13 July 2003 - 06:40 AM

^ I thought it was women who traditionally did the gathering? ;) :)

I agree, though, all humans have ¨feminine¨and ¨masculine¨ sides. I took a personality test a while back while looking at possible career choices (for what would suit me best, did a whole bunch of other stuff too) and they had the right idea. Every person has facets of themselves, and is able to bring out any of these personality traits out of them. The only difference is which is the most influental personality(ies) with you. Sort of like what people have been saying in the Reality vs fantasy thread. We all have different facets, and actually have them all, just in different proportions. We show a different one to every single person we meet, as their personality brings out something different, and they even see different facets in one person, when they are at work, out having fun, etc. You can probably pick out which other facets are strong in them even in a place they dont express it at much (I can tell at my work who is a partier, and who is a quiet introspective person, I dont need to see them at home or out having fun to tell, but they all are professional, in their own way, at work). Heck, there are facets a person never shows another, and or shows or admits even to themselves. And thats where the problem comes in, is if important facets of a person is hidden or expressed another, usually, hurtfull way (either to others or themselves). Feminine and masculine is another false dictomomy as far as I am concerned :p :D
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#54 Drew

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Posted 13 July 2003 - 12:28 PM

sierraleone, on Jul 12 2003, 11:49 AM, said:

. . . but I do not think of humans as more worth it, literally or figuretively, than any other living things (be it animal, plant, fungi, bacteria or protozoan).
I could not disagree with you more. Tell you what . . . if I'm walking my dog across the street, and I trip and fall, and a speeding bus is bearing down on Fido and me . . . and the bystander can only push one of us out of the way . . . I do not want you to be the bystander.

Honestly, the viewpoint you express gives me chills.
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#55 Shalamar

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Posted 13 July 2003 - 12:50 PM

AmourMe writes:

Quote

But if you don't get nurtured as a child, there's a much greater chance you won't BE nurturing as an adult.

I agree, and have seen this in my experinces.

Also, IIRC, there have been studies done on this very subject.

In kittens there is a syndrome called 'Faliure to Thrive'- and it can and does kill-you find it also in infants. The root cause seems to be how much nurturing they recieve, the little things, cuddling, the warmth of anothers touch, the sound of a heart beat next to theirs, ..

Infants in orphanges or in situations where one group recieved different nurtering levels from another, show greater weight differences, and as they grow, lesser or greater abilities to socialize, to show empathetic qualities from gentleness with other children and animals, to the ability to share easily, and learn as quickly, to handle stress and negative emotions as easily...


AmourMe, I agree with Josh, you rock!

#56 Peridot

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Posted 13 July 2003 - 01:16 PM

Drew, on Jul 13 2003, 01:24 AM, said:

sierraleone, on Jul 12 2003, 11:49 AM, said:

. . . but I do not think of humans as more worth it, literally or figuretively, than any other living things (be it animal, plant, fungi, bacteria or protozoan).
I could not disagree with you more. Tell you what . . . if I'm walking my dog across the street, and I trip and fall, and a speeding bus is bearing down on Fido and me . . . and the bystander can only push one of us out of the way . . . I do not want you to be the bystander.

Honestly, the viewpoint you express gives me chills.
Drew, I'm sorry, but I think that is a very judgemental comment, and that you have misinterpreted what she is saying.  The question, IIRC correctly, was not at all about who or what was worth saving,  but about who was worth spending time with.

There's a big difference there.  

And also---I don't know if sierraleone meant it in this way, but I know there are people who feel that plants and animals are much more important than the way we tend to view them in "Western" thought.  A statement like that may mean for some people simply that other creatures are valued very highly, not that humans are valued less.

Peridot :(

#57 ArmourMe

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Posted 13 July 2003 - 03:22 PM

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Josh}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
{{{{{{{{{{{{{Shal}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Awww  :blush:   Thanks so much you guys :)  I work and feel and pray and research at it very hard....and harder every day!  

Thank you :)

#58 sierraleone

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Posted 13 July 2003 - 05:57 PM

[quote name='Peridot' date='Jul 12 2003, 06:12 PM']

Honestly, the viewpoint you express gives me chills.[/QUOTE]
Drew, I'm sorry, but I think that is a very judgemental comment, and that you have misinterpreted what she is saying.  The question, IIRC correctly, was not at all about who or what was worth saving,  but about who was worth spending time with.

There's a big difference there.  

And also---I don't know if sierraleone meant it in this way, but I know there are people who feel that plants and animals are much more important than the way we tend to view them in "Western" thought.  A statement like that may mean for some people simply that other creatures are valued very highly, not that humans are valued less.

Peridot :( [/quote]
:crazy:  :crazy:  :crazy: agh!!!!

I think there has been some misinterpreations (and maybe unintentional twisting from my end)

Taking this one step at a time.

[quote] [quote](sierraleone @ Jul 12 2003, 04:06 AM)
I know I am disconnected from (most) others, and I am not sure I care to change it. Most people out there are not worth the effort and I am happy to hang by myself most of the time.  [/quote]

People are most definitely worth it. They are the most valuable things there are.[/quote]

I took your ¨people are most definitely¨worth it in a very generic manner, not as who is more important, who is even more worth my time (I aint a misanthropris.... sp? :D ). And add the ¨most valuable things there are¨I took it as people are the most valueable things there are and more worth it than anything else. We certainly would not be very valueable if half of the other things on this planet did not exist, or we might not exist.

[quote name='sierraleone' date='Jul 12 2003, 11:49 AM'] . . . but I do not think of humans as more worth it, literally or figuretively, than any other living things (be it animal, plant, fungi, bacteria or protozoan). [/quote]

[quote]I could not disagree with you more. Tell you what . . . if I'm walking my dog across the street, and I trip and fall, and a speeding bus is bearing down on Fido and me . . . and the bystander can only push one of us out of the way . . . I do not want you to be the bystander.[/quote]

I assume you mean you would not want it to be me based on what you just read ;) I would hope, other than this misunderstanding you would not get such a bad picture of me :p :D The dog would be too low to push aside ;) All kidding aside, I would save the human. I am still human-centric enough to do that ;)

I just dont agree with the sentiments human beings are the most valueable things there is.... certainly they are valuable, and being a human myself, I would still put their lives above other creatures. But I do not have this idea of humans being at the top of this pyramid and all the other creatures below. Just like I do not think humans should be mistreated, nor do I think other creatures should be. I believe they have emotions and or souls too. All living beings deserve to be treated with respect and care. And tough love if neccessary ;) :)
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#59 sierraleone

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Posted 13 July 2003 - 06:05 PM

ArmourMe, on Jul 12 2003, 08:18 PM, said:

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Josh}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
{{{{{{{{{{{{{Shal}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Awww  :blush:   Thanks so much you guys :)  I work and feel and pray and research at it very hard....and harder every day! 

Thank you :)
You mean I forgot to say how cool you are when responding in this thread????  :blush:
You sound like an awesome mom, I just wish we had more parents like you :)

You and your kids do sound fascinating. I have got a question if you do not mind ;)

I was reading a newspaper article on children who want to do things to seem *grown up* as in, for girls, wearing make-up, highheels, play with dolls and house. I could see how some kids would see this as the definition of grown up  :wacko: As they are not allowed to (usually) and adults are. It got me wondering if there are any positive (gendered bias or not) things they try to imitate? What do your kids (and those girls you mentioned) do when they want to feel or look more ¨grown-up¨? Especiallywhen you have been trying to keep gender roles and other such possibly negative influences from them?
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#60 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

  • Islander
  • 9,226 posts

Posted 13 July 2003 - 07:26 PM

While I would probably save a human being in that case, I certainly would not be thinking of the humans safety if I came upon somone intentionally beating up some poor creature  :glare:

All life is worth while,  (to save, to learn from, to spend lots of time with even if you so desire... I prefere studying from a distance ;) ).

All I was trying to point out, is all life is valueable and worthwhile. Geesh, I though you at least would understand that Drew  :blush:
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Sociology, Women, Men, Mind Games

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