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Obama American Politics

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#1 Lyric of Delphi

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 08:46 AM

I saw this on CNN this morning and had to check it out: http://www.politifac...meter/promises/

500-some campaign promises is a lot, and it'll be interesting to see what Obama can actually accomplish.

I have to say, I'm pleased to see some promises already fulfilled by day 2.

Edited by Certifiably Cait, 07 August 2012 - 12:15 PM.


#2 SparkyCola

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 09:31 AM

Ah cool- thanks for the link Lyric - definitely one to bookmark and keep an eye on - might be very interesting :)

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#3 Spectacles

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 10:04 AM

^ Yep. I wonder if we could pin it to the top of OT so that we can keep track over the next four years?
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#4 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 10:12 AM

Well history has proven that, for the most part, once President's get into office...they tend to throw their campaign promises out the Oval window. So I'm not really expecting Obama to be any different. Although, he does seem to be trying to keep some of them, which is promising.
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#5 Rov Judicata

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 10:22 AM

View PostSpectacles, on Jan 22 2009, 10:04 AM, said:

^ Yep. I wonder if we could pin it to the top of OT so that we can keep track over the next four years?

Spectacles, you're a genius.  I love this idea.

In any event, allow me to make a prediction: To the extent Obama is unsuccessful over the next four years, the rejoinder will be something like, "He inherited two wars and a financial meltdown from his predecessor.  <x> had to take a backseat to cleaning up George Bush's mess."
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#6 Nonny

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 10:35 AM

View PostRovEsque, on Jan 22 2009, 07:22 AM, said:

View PostSpectacles, on Jan 22 2009, 10:04 AM, said:

^ Yep. I wonder if we could pin it to the top of OT so that we can keep track over the next four years?

Spectacles, you're a genius.  I love this idea.

In any event, allow me to make a prediction: To the extent Obama is unsuccessful over the next four years, the rejoinder will be something like, "He inherited two wars and a financial meltdown from his predecessor.  <x> had to take a backseat to cleaning up George Bush's mess."
That's my plan.    :)
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#7 Broph

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 10:47 AM

Some are interesting, like signing a form saying that the person didn't get the job because of contribution or political affiliation. As if someone would admit that they got the job that way. It's an idea in the right place, but will it have any real effect?

#8 EChatty

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 11:19 AM

View PostSpectacles, on Jan 22 2009, 09:04 AM, said:

^ Yep. I wonder if we could pin it to the top of OT so that we can keep track over the next four years?

Well Sparky is showing up as on the board, so she can pin it if she sees it since she's actually one of OT's mods.

If she doesn't come in and see it, I'll be glad to later if none of the other mods come in and see it and do it.


#9 SparkyCola

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 02:38 PM

^ Yeah, I'm just waiting for a response from the other OT mods before I go ahead and do it- I doubt they'll object, but I figured I'd ask or they might think I was taking a bit of a liberty-  going vigilante :hehe:

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#10 Drew

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 03:18 PM

View PostRovEsque, on Jan 22 2009, 09:22 AM, said:

View PostSpectacles, on Jan 22 2009, 10:04 AM, said:

^ Yep. I wonder if we could pin it to the top of OT so that we can keep track over the next four years?

Spectacles, you're a genius.  I love this idea.

In any event, allow me to make a prediction: To the extent Obama is unsuccessful over the next four years, the rejoinder will be something like, "He inherited two wars and a financial meltdown from his predecessor.  <x> had to take a backseat to cleaning up George Bush's mess."

Yes, but blaming George Bush will begin to sound increasingly hollow the longer it goes on. :cool:

Not that I really want him to make good on his promises. I wish President Obama well, and I hope for the best for this country, but in some areas I sincerely do not want to see him or the Democratic Congress succeed.
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#11 Rov Judicata

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 03:23 PM

Drew-- A fair enough point.  Rush Limbaugh is getting lambasted for saying something similar, but it seems self-evident.  If you opposed somebody's policies when they were a candidate, it would take an impressive display of insanity to hope they enact those policies when they come to office.  While I voted for Obama in the primary, I certainly hope he fails in some of the things he proposed too.  Ideally, he would have just enough capital to spend on exactly what I want. ;).

Edited by RovEsque, 22 January 2009 - 03:23 PM.

St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#12 Christopher

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 03:36 PM

If such a success/failure "meter" were being kept, I'd recommend doing similar analyses of past presidents' performances, so the data can be placed in a meaningful context.  Not just some petty litany of did he keep this promise or break that one, but a more measured evaluation of his performance in relation to what past presidents have been able or unable to achieve, keeping in mind the circumstances they had to deal with.

For instance, Bush came into office promising smaller government and an emphasis on domestic over foreign policy.  9/11 et seq. forced him to abandon most of his campaign promises.  So it's surely important to take circumstances into account.  Reducing it to a simplistic "meter" of success or failure strikes me as not being particularly meaningful.

Anyway, while success or failure will take a long time to judge, I'm impressed by how quickly Obama has acted on his promises so far.  It's been two days, and he's shut down Gitmo, banned torture, told the Pentagon to begin work on Iraq withdrawal, appointed special envoys to Afghanistan/Pakistan and the Mideast, met with his economic advisors to work on a strategy, imposed new ethics and transparency rules for the federal government, enacted a salary freeze for White House staff, put new limits on lobbyists, and even found time to take a mulligan on the oath of office.  From the look of him, the only thing he hasn't done is get a decent night's sleep.  Success can never be guaranteed, but there's no question that he's putting a lot of effort into doing what he promised to do.

Edited by Christopher, 22 January 2009 - 03:48 PM.

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#13 Mooky

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 03:48 PM

View PostSparkyCola, on Jan 22 2009, 08:31 AM, said:

Ah cool- thanks for the link Lyric - definitely one to bookmark and keep an eye on - might be very interesting :)

Sparky

Agreed.

#14 Spectacles

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 03:51 PM

Quote

Rov: Spectacles, you're a genius.

Oooh! New sig line! :)


(Kidding. ;) )

Glad you like the idea. CNN actually did a nice, organized chart, too.
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#15 Mooky

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 03:53 PM

View PostLord of the Sword, on Jan 22 2009, 09:12 AM, said:

Well history has proven that, for the most part, once President's get into office...they tend to throw their campaign promises out the Oval window. So I'm not really expecting Obama to be any different.

You just love being a pessimist, doncha?  :p~

Edited by Datalyss, 22 January 2009 - 03:55 PM.


#16 QueenTiye

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 04:09 PM

Wow... you guys have a different definition of "succeed."  Perhaps that's because you are ideologically wedded to certain ideas?

To me Obama will succeed if the nation comes out of this slump stronger than before, more capable of proceeding effectively into the 21st century, with an economic engine that can overcome the deficits we run up investing in it, and with fewer enemies than we began with.  I'll feel especially that Obama has succeeded if I feel confident at the end of his first term, that my son's outlook coming out of college is better than it is right now, and I'll feel that Obama succeeded if all of that is accomplished with him, instead of in spite of him (in other words, if the government works together to get all of this done).  I have no particular attachment to any one goal, so long as the nation's prosperity reaches farther and wider than it did in the past cycle.  If there are particulars I care about they are these:

1. health care - I care deeply that we turn the tide on healthcare, so that people in the middle - the not-rich and the not-poor, can be assured of solid care.
2. Education - I care deeply that we teach effectively in ALL of our schools - if that means vouchers, or any thing else, I'm fine with it - but I want effective teaching and solid science.
3. Technology - I care deeply that we get broadband for all Americans - and that we start leveraging an expanded broadband access into new ways of driving the economy, and finally,
4. I care deeply about the creation of "green jobs" - not just for the sake of saving the environment, but for the sake of creating an economy that improves the environment as it expands.

Progress on all four of those points would be better than excellent.

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#17 SparkyCola

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 06:09 PM

I've always known my measure of 'success' was not the norm, but that's a story for another day... I think you're misunderstanding to be honest. In this thread the only use of the term has been within the context of "how successful he is...in keeping his promises" - no one has said this will be a measure of how successful his presidency is, overall.

This isn't really about success as far as I'm concerned- it's just- well, interesting :)

To see if the word 'promise' has become meaningless in the context of politics, or whether it still does have some value. Because in the words of Crowded House "Even a child knows you don't waste it, a promise is only given once" :hehe:

It gives some measure of how true he has stayed to the projection he gave during the campaign, of what his presidency would be like. Did he really do everything he said he would do? Did he improve on what went before? etc. etc. Such a thing is very difficult to measure- but this is an interesting aid.

ETA: Gonna pin now :)

Sparky

Edited by SparkyCola, 22 January 2009 - 06:14 PM.

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#18 Spectacles

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 07:06 PM

What QT said.

And thanks for pinning this thread. It will be interesting to check Obama's progress on fulfilling promises.

Accountability is good for geese and ganders. :)
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#19 tallulah

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 10:51 PM

I guess I am a dissenting voice in tallying successes on things promised by our new President Obama.  No one has ever suggested this type of pinned thread before, as far as I can see, and I guess I am having trouble figuring out why it is so exciting to do so now.  Yes, our first African-American President is a historic moment, but, for me, it isn't one that I want to commemorate by tallying whether or not he keeps every promise, or how many promises he keeps.  I don't think President Obama should be held to such a higher scrutiny than our other, former Presidents.  If this is going to be pinned, then, in all fairness, I think the promises that at least the last 5 Presidents made and the ones they kept should be done so as well.  If you are going to judge our new President, at least put it in "meaningful context" (to use Christopher's phrase from above).

And, yes, I am surprised at my response to this!  I guess I just never expected such a tally-ing and judging to be supported here in such a (semi) permanent way.  I still stand by my stance though: If it is going to be done to our new President, it should be done to other Presidents.  That seems only fair to me.

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#20 Lyric of Delphi

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Posted 23 January 2009 - 01:48 AM

I'm honestly not looking to this meter as a matter of success or failure. I'm looking at it as a way to stay focused, a kind of checklist for Obama. (A checklist he's doing very, very well with so far.) If he doesn't get to all of it, okay. But watching this will help me keep track of what's going on. That's just me, anyway.



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