Jump to content


Getting an "Insecure Connection" warning for Exisle? No worry

Details in this thread

Obama signs kids' health insurance bill

Health Care 2009

  • Please log in to reply
58 replies to this topic

#21 scherzo

scherzo

    I know things

  • Islander
  • 3,388 posts

Posted 05 February 2009 - 02:03 AM

View PostLord of the Sword, on Feb 4 2009, 10:51 PM, said:

View PostBklnScott, on Feb 4 2009, 09:32 PM, said:

View PostCJ AEGIS, on Feb 4 2009, 07:44 PM, said:

^Tax another vice then. ;)

I'll give Obama points where he deserves it.  And this time he deserves it especialy if the extra taxes on smoking pay for a good part of the increases.

Agreed!

And it is precisely this attiude...of having other people pay for your sh*t (by your I mean people in general, not you specifically BklnScott) that the economy is in the tank. It the reason we have "bailouts" and the whole 9 yards. In today's society it is all about NOT taking responsibility for yourself. About having other people pay your way, or your bills, or your kid's bills...and if you run your business into the ground because you didn't know what you were doing...Well, then we'll bail you out of that too....Heaven forbid you clean up your own mess.
"The Right" is strong in this one.
Posted Image
JOOOOOOIN US!
I will complete your training...
"Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so."    -Ronald Reagan, October 27 1964
Posted Image

#22 FnlPrblm

FnlPrblm
  • Administrator
  • 12,507 posts

Posted 05 February 2009 - 02:12 AM

View Postszhismine, on Feb 4 2009, 11:37 PM, said:

Quote

Tax another vice then.

you know, if marijuana became legal, the government would have another revenue stream by taxing the sh*t out of it and using that money to sponsor stuff. stoners paying for children's health care :hehe:

(btw that's not a sarcastic, thinly veiled insult, it's a genuine suggestion.)


That's been mulled over for decades, actually.  Especially in the '90s after "The War on Drugs" was found not to be really working.  But there is still stiff opposition to it.

For one, it's too easy (as I understand it) to simply grow stuff yourself.  So how could the govt. be able to find and tax all that.  You could say to go ahead and tax everyone, whether or not you grow/smoke it, but then that leads to even stiffer opposition.
"It is an old maxim of mine that when you have excluded the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes: The Beryl Coronet

The Boscombe Valley Mystery: "There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact."

"Nothing astonishes men so much as common sense and plain dealing." --- Ralph Waldo Emerson 'Art,' 1841

"Such welcome and unwelcome things at once, 'Tis hard to reconcile." --- Macbeth IV.III.138-9


LauraBertram.net

"Once in one's life, for one mortal moment, one must make a grab for immortality; if not, one has not lived." -- Sylvester Stallone

Time to eat all your words, swallow your pride, open your eyes...Sowing the Seeds of Love - Tears4Fears

#23 offworlder

offworlder

    pls don't kick offworlders, we can find a place too

  • Islander
  • 5,363 posts

Posted 05 February 2009 - 02:36 AM

oh boy was i grilled by the car radio with the right winger presenters on this stuff today; oh Barack is doing this children health plan because Castro did it; because Castro gave it to Cuba the Marxists running USA now have to give it to America, and all that blather .......... but I wonder since I didn't read the thing; are those right wing hosts right in saying this plan doesNOT require proof of citizenship, so all those illegal, and I don't go pc and say undocumented even though i'm not rightwing, i still say illegal, children will have all those docs and prescriptions paid for upon the backs of the God fearing corn belt luvin hardworkin Americanos?
Oh ya shoulda heard all that stuff all day long..
"(Do you read what they say online?) I check out all these scandalous rumours about me and Elijah Wood having beautiful sex with each other ... (are they true?) About Elijah and me being boyfriend and boyfriend? Absolutely true. We've been together for about nine years. I wooed him. No I just like a lot of stuff - I like that someone says one thing and it becomes fact. It's kind of fun." --Dominic Monaghan in a phone interview with Newsweek while buying DVDs at the store. :D

#24 Palisades

Palisades

    Northern Lights

  • Islander
  • 7,753 posts

Posted 05 February 2009 - 02:44 AM

^ I assume that's deliberate. The ultra-libs want the illegals (or whatever it is that they call them) to get healthcare paid for by taxpayers. One can argue, sure, "these are children," but if the Democrats think they can get away with it, they'll do something similar with full-fledged universal healthcare.

Edited by Palisade, 05 February 2009 - 02:47 AM.

"When the Fed is the bartender everybody drinks until they fall down." —Paul McCulley

"In truth, 'too big to fail' is not the worst thing we should fear – our financial institutions are now on their way to becoming 'too big to save'." —Simon Johnson

FKA:
TWP / An Affirming Flame / Solar Wind / Palisade

#25 BklnScott

BklnScott

    FKA ScottEVill

  • Islander
  • 18,142 posts

Posted 05 February 2009 - 09:00 AM

View PostLord of the Sword, on Feb 4 2009, 10:27 PM, said:

View PostCJ AEGIS, on Feb 4 2009, 07:44 PM, said:

^Tax another vice then. ;)

I'll give Obama points where he deserves it.  And this time he deserves it especialy if the extra taxes on smoking pay for a good part of the increases.

Yeah, just tax another vice...

What actually is wrong with the concept of the vice tax?  I mean, should we tax virtue instead?  

I'm gonna combine two of your posts here:

Quote

heaven forbid we make the dead beat parents who are broke a$$ freeloaders, who want other people to support their brats, pay for their own kids.

...


And it is precisely this attiude...of having other people pay for your sh*t (by your I mean people in general, not you specifically BklnScott) that the economy is in the tank. It the reason we have "bailouts" and the whole 9 yards. In today's society it is all about NOT taking responsibility for yourself. About having other people pay your way, or your bills, or your kid's bills...and if you run your business into the ground because you didn't know what you were doing...Well, then we'll bail you out of that too....Heaven forbid you clean up your own mess.

I agree in broad strokes with the idea that people should have to pay their own way in this world.  I certainly do.  I stand in line at the bodega by my apt and watch people buy junk food and beer with their WIC cards, and it disgusts me.  Take some responsibility for yourselves, for god's sake! -- starting with the responsibility to NOT procreate if you can't afford it.

The question is, what do we do once that ship has sailed?  Do we, as a society, say, "oh, well, people are irresponsible -- who cares if their brats go hungry, or have no healthcare?"

NO.  We're the only country in the western world that doesn't guarantee healthcare to its children.  The only one.  

To me, that's a source of incredible embarrassment, and I'm glad to see we're moving to close that gap.  I'm also glad that this will be the first step in moving to cover ALL Americans who can't afford their own health insurance.  Once all kids are covered, we should move to all senior citizens.  Eventually we'll meet in the middle.


View PostRobert Hewitt Wolfe, on Feb 5 2009, 01:52 AM, said:

View PostGhost Rider, on Feb 4 2009, 04:29 PM, said:

hey-why stop there? Legalize coke and heroin and do the same with that. :wacko:

I'm for that, for the record.  Me likely vice taxes, no likely "War on Drugs" boondoggles.  Legalize all vice and tax the everloving hell out of it, I say.

Ding ding ding -- We have a winner!

Quote

There isn't enough mommy in the world to further a cause like yours!

#26 Lord of the Sword

Lord of the Sword
  • Islander
  • 15,681 posts

Posted 05 February 2009 - 09:04 AM

View Postoffworlder, on Feb 5 2009, 02:36 AM, said:

but I wonder since I didn't read the thing; are those right wing hosts right in saying this plan doesNOT require proof of citizenship, so all those illegal, and I don't go pc and say undocumented even though i'm not rightwing, i still say illegal, children will have all those docs and prescriptions paid for upon the backs of the God fearing corn belt luvin hardworkin Americanos?
Oh ya shoulda heard all that stuff all day long..


Honestly I don't know...I'm hoping the answer is No. Because targeting one group to pay for this, namely smokers...and then giving it to illegal criminal's and their illegal kids...Oh HELL F*CKING NO! FTS!
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#27 Nonny

Nonny

    Scourge of Pretentious Bad Latin

  • Islander
  • 31,142 posts

Posted 05 February 2009 - 09:14 AM

Excellent!  Tax smokers, and keep on taxing them.  Maybe enough will quit so that somebody else's nonsmoking mother won't be killed by all the smokers who loved her.
Posted Image


The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#28 Nittany Lioness

Nittany Lioness

    Craving a little perspective.

  • Islander
  • 3,537 posts

Posted 05 February 2009 - 09:47 AM

Scott writes:
"people buy junk food and beer with their WIC cards"

I thought they couldn't do that.  I worked as a cashier at a produce market, and I was told I couldn't allow them to buy certain things, only the, well food food.  One can buy beer with WIC?!

I'm cold Howard.jpg


#29 Vapor Trails

Vapor Trails

    In a world where I feel so small, I can't stop thinking big.

  • Awaiting Authorisation
  • 16,523 posts

Posted 05 February 2009 - 09:51 AM

I'm sorry, but this whole situation about the funding of kids' health insurance is making me ill, on moral grounds...

People have to die, so that kids live.

See, without cigarette addicts, how will this health insurance be funded? Aren't we in a deep recession? If smokers quit their habit, how will this be funded?

If I recall correctly, when the Medillin cartel was at its height in Colombia, some of this drug money was tossed at the government, and it helped to fund parts of the infrastructure.

You can color it however you want to, but this is blood money. Sure-no one forces you to start smoking.

But what if you want to quit? The cigarette companies want to make sure YOU DON'T QUIT.

Because-if you DO quit, bye-bye revenue for Big Tobacco™. Bye-bye income tax for Big Government™.

And I'm sure that without the help of Big Tobacco™, NO president could get elected.

Nice system, that.

:crazy: :angry: :barf:
Posted Image

Politicians are like bananas; they hang together, they're all yellow, and there's not a straight one among them.

"We're relevant for $ and a vote once every two years. Beyond that, we're completely irrelevant, except of course to consume, and preach the gospel according to [insert political demigod here]."--Cait

#30 Drew

Drew

    Josef K.

  • Islander
  • 12,191 posts

Posted 05 February 2009 - 09:55 AM

Quote

I stand in line at the bodega by my apt and watch people buy junk food and beer with their WIC cards, and it disgusts me.

No you cannot. WIC is not the same as food stamps. You can only buy very specific things on WIC. Each check tells you exactly what it's for: "dozen eggs," "two gallons of milk," "16 oz. cheese," "42 oz. juice," etc.

Not only do I know this due to my grocery background, I know this as someone who was on WIC for both of our children.

If you are truly seeing people buy stuff like that with WIC, then the store that's selling is committing fraud.

And you can't buy beer with food stamps as far as I can recall. Beer doesn't qualify as groceries. You can't buy anything that's not food. You can't buy yer toilet paper or your bottles of Windex either.

"Junk food" is too subjective a term to be governed. I'm pretty sure you can buy a bag of potato chips.

Edited by Drew, 05 February 2009 - 09:57 AM.

"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#31 Balderdash

Balderdash
  • Islander
  • 5,729 posts

Posted 05 February 2009 - 09:55 AM

View PostNittany Lioness, on Feb 5 2009, 07:47 AM, said:

Scott writes:
"people buy junk food and beer with their WIC cards"

I thought they couldn't do that.  I worked as a cashier at a produce market, and I was told I couldn't allow them to buy certain things, only the, well food food.  One can buy beer with WIC?!


I'm not Scott but WIC is for women with little kids and you can only get what is specified on the voucher,  WIC doesn't have "cards".  And if you're talking about Food stamps, you can only buy food, you can't buy alcohol.

Another Democrat leaning Independent that has to search for truth because it can't be found on Fox News OR MSNBC.



"Being gay is not a Western invention, it is a human reality"  by HRC


#32 Balderdash

Balderdash
  • Islander
  • 5,729 posts

Posted 05 February 2009 - 10:08 AM

View PostGhost Rider, on Feb 5 2009, 07:51 AM, said:

I'm sorry, but this whole situation about the funding of kids' health insurance is making me ill, on moral grounds...

People have to die, so that kids live.

See, without cigarette addicts, how will this health insurance be funded? Aren't we in a deep recession? If smokers quit their habit, how will this be funded?

If I recall correctly, when the Medillin cartel was at its height in Colombia, some of this drug money was tossed at the government, and it helped to fund parts of the infrastructure.

You can color it however you want to, but this is blood money. Sure-no one forces you to start smoking.

But what if you want to quit? The cigarette companies want to make sure YOU DON'T QUIT.

Because-if you DO quit, bye-bye revenue for Big Tobacco™. Bye-bye income tax for Big Government™.

And I'm sure that without the help of Big Tobacco™, NO president could get elected.

Nice system, that.

:crazy:  :angry:  :barf:


I hear you man but I would still be willing to pay a bit more in taxes for kids to have healthcare.  I'd also be willing to pay more in taxes so that sex education included access to birth control rather than just teaching kids to just say no ( :sarcasm: ).

Another Democrat leaning Independent that has to search for truth because it can't be found on Fox News OR MSNBC.



"Being gay is not a Western invention, it is a human reality"  by HRC


#33 Vapor Trails

Vapor Trails

    In a world where I feel so small, I can't stop thinking big.

  • Awaiting Authorisation
  • 16,523 posts

Posted 05 February 2009 - 10:13 AM

View PostBalderdash, on Feb 5 2009, 10:08 AM, said:

View PostGhost Rider, on Feb 5 2009, 07:51 AM, said:

I'm sorry, but this whole situation about the funding of kids' health insurance is making me ill, on moral grounds...

People have to die, so that kids live.

See, without cigarette addicts, how will this health insurance be funded? Aren't we in a deep recession? If smokers quit their habit, how will this be funded?

If I recall correctly, when the Medillin cartel was at its height in Colombia, some of this drug money was tossed at the government, and it helped to fund parts of the infrastructure.

You can color it however you want to, but this is blood money. Sure-no one forces you to start smoking.

But what if you want to quit? The cigarette companies want to make sure YOU DON'T QUIT.

Because-if you DO quit, bye-bye revenue for Big Tobacco™. Bye-bye income tax for Big Government™.

And I'm sure that without the help of Big Tobacco™, NO president could get elected.

Nice system, that.

:crazy:  :angry:  :barf:


I hear you man but I would still be willing to pay a bit more in taxes for kids to have healthcare.  I'd also be willing to pay more in taxes so that sex education included access to birth control rather than just teaching kids to just say no ( :sarcasm: ).

Yeah-but it shouldn't have to be AT THE COST OF YOUR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  THAT'S WRONG!!! THAT'S EVIL!!!! :angry:

{{{{{{{{{Baldy}}}}}}}}}}}

I know we are strangers to each other-but I want to see you stick around. :( Especially, for your loved ones. :(

Edited by Ghost Rider, 05 February 2009 - 10:17 AM.

Posted Image

Politicians are like bananas; they hang together, they're all yellow, and there's not a straight one among them.

"We're relevant for $ and a vote once every two years. Beyond that, we're completely irrelevant, except of course to consume, and preach the gospel according to [insert political demigod here]."--Cait

#34 BklnScott

BklnScott

    FKA ScottEVill

  • Islander
  • 18,142 posts

Posted 05 February 2009 - 11:35 AM

I stand corrected on the WIC thing -- I don't really know about these programs.  I see "We Accept WIC" on the door, and then I see people handing over a credit card with BENEFITS printed on it, and then putting in a PIN number... I assumed that was WIC.  Whatever it is, I'm a-payin' for it, and I don't like what I see them buying with my money... though I recognize the need for such programs.

ETA: re beer... I'm sure I've seen people walk out of there with beer, but maybe they paid separately for it...  I *don't* think you should be able to buy anything that's not an essential item, though.  Potatoes?  OK.  Potato chips?  Hell no!

Edited by BklnScott, 05 February 2009 - 11:37 AM.

Quote

There isn't enough mommy in the world to further a cause like yours!

#35 Lord of the Sword

Lord of the Sword
  • Islander
  • 15,681 posts

Posted 05 February 2009 - 12:52 PM

View PostGhost Rider, on Feb 5 2009, 09:51 AM, said:

See, without cigarette addicts, how will this health insurance be funded? Aren't we in a deep recession? If smokers quit their habit, how will this be funded?

The answer to that question has already been answered...by at least 2 members here. "Tax another vice"

People would rather keep the status Quo...find someone else to take the responsibility, rather then make people clean up their own mess.

So you have at least 2 members here who feel that others should pay for other people's kids, and if they quit then tax someone else...they'll probably go after the "fat people" if smoker's quit.

And before anyone claims that is an alarmist statement, or is untrue...just remember the fat tax NYC is doing...I called that one and was told it was a scare tactic, a strawman, ect...and damn if I didn't hit the nail on the head with it.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#36 BklnScott

BklnScott

    FKA ScottEVill

  • Islander
  • 18,142 posts

Posted 05 February 2009 - 01:50 PM

LoTS (and Ghost Rider) ... If the day comes in any of our lifetimes when smokers do not exist as an economic base, I will get down on my hands and knees and kiss BOTH your a$$e$ in Macy's window.

I mean it.

Talk about a high class problem--How will we pay for universal healthcare for kids when smokers no longer exist?  Well, we'll just get in our hovercraft and head on over to the Lunar think tank and network our brains together, and I'm sure a solution will present itself...  :devil:

Quote

There isn't enough mommy in the world to further a cause like yours!

#37 SparkyCola

SparkyCola
  • Islander
  • 14,904 posts

Posted 05 February 2009 - 02:01 PM

^ :lol:
Able to entertain a thought without taking it home to meet the parents

#38 Broph

Broph
  • Islander
  • 6,671 posts

Posted 05 February 2009 - 03:07 PM

The link to the story is outdated

http://news.yahoo.co...ildren_s_health

$32 billion for 4 million kids. That's almost $10,000 per kid. Sounds a bit expensive.

Quote

Opponents of the bill complained that the tobacco tax increase hits the poor the hardest, because they are more likely to smoke than wealthier people.

Well, aren't they also the ones most likely to need this insurance? Why should they buy cigarettes if they can't afford insurance for their kids?

Edited by Broph, 05 February 2009 - 03:10 PM.


#39 Palisades

Palisades

    Northern Lights

  • Islander
  • 7,753 posts

Posted 05 February 2009 - 03:11 PM

View PostBroph, on Feb 5 2009, 03:07 PM, said:

The link to the story is outdated

http://news.yahoo.co...ildren_s_health

$32 billion for 4 million kids. That's almost $10,000 per kid. Sounds a bit expensive.

Over five years, but yeah, $1600 per kid per year seems kind of on the high side, given the relatively small amount of health care kids consume relative to adults.
"When the Fed is the bartender everybody drinks until they fall down." —Paul McCulley

"In truth, 'too big to fail' is not the worst thing we should fear – our financial institutions are now on their way to becoming 'too big to save'." —Simon Johnson

FKA:
TWP / An Affirming Flame / Solar Wind / Palisade

#40 Drew

Drew

    Josef K.

  • Islander
  • 12,191 posts

Posted 05 February 2009 - 03:21 PM

View PostPalisade, on Feb 5 2009, 02:11 PM, said:

Over five years, but yeah, $1600 per kid per year seems kind of on the high side, given the relatively small amount of health care kids consume relative to adults.

I suppose that depends on the age of the adult. From birth to five, kids get routine check-ups all the time.
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Health Care, 2009

0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users