Jump to content


Getting an "Insecure Connection" warning for Exisle? No worry

Details in this thread

Washington State to allow assisted suicides

Health Assisted Suicides 2009 Washington State

  • Please log in to reply
12 replies to this topic

#1 Godeskian

Godeskian

    You'll be seein' rainbooms

  • Islander
  • 26,839 posts

Posted 04 March 2009 - 05:52 AM

http://uk.news.yahoo...-s-0b0437e.html

Quote

Under a ballot measure passed during November elections, physicians in the northwest state will be allowed to write prescriptions for lethal doses of drugs for terminally ill patients who have less than six months to live.

Only one other US state -- Oregon -- has similar legislation, although a court in Montana recently ruled that terminally ill patients had the right to seek physician-assisted suicide.

Quote

"Aided dying is neither euthanasia nor suicide," said Terry Barnett, president of the Washington branch of Compassion & Choices advocacy group.

"It's not euthanasia because euthanasia implies action by a physician to end a patient's life. It's not suicide because people who choose aid in dying are not choosing to end their lives.

"They don't want to die -- they're choosing to end suffering that cannot be relieved and suffering that they are experiencing that is worse than death."

Quote

To obtain a prescription a patient would need to make two oral requests followed by a written request witnessed by two people who are not related or connected to the individual. Two doctors must also affirm that the patient has six months or fewer to live.

Barnett said Washington physicians who object to the legislation have the right to decline a request for a lethal prescription.

"Anyone who has an objection of conscience may choose not to participate," he said. Physicians were also not allowed to administer the fatal drugs.

Quote

"Around 30 percent of people who get prescriptions don't take them and end up dying of their underlying illness.

"We know from these people that what was important was having the knowledge that they had the option if things became too difficult. Having that knowledge allowed them to keep going."

I've always supported assisted suicide, and euthanasia for that matter, so obviously I think this is a step in the right direction. What do you think?

Defy Gravity!


The Doctor: The universe is big. It's vast and complicated and ridiculous and sometimes, very rarely, impossible things just happen and we call them miracles... and that's a theory. Nine hundred years and I've never seen one yet, but this will do me.


#2 Broph

Broph
  • Islander
  • 6,671 posts

Posted 04 March 2009 - 07:45 AM

I think that it's odd (not wrong, not right, odd) that we live in a society where a woman can choose (not need, but want) to terminate a pregnancy (where the fetus doesn't get to weigh in on the matter), where if an animal is suffering it is considered humane to put it out of its misery, but we can't seem to allow a rationally thinking person to decide for him/herself that the pain and suffering that they're enduring (and will endure for the "short" amount of time left) is too great. Granted, one could argue that the pain that they're suffering might be affecting them mentally, but if it is, isn't that just as valid a part in the reasoning process?

#3 Lord of the Sword

Lord of the Sword
  • Islander
  • 15,681 posts

Posted 04 March 2009 - 08:17 AM

Personally, I'm all for allowing a person to decide, for themselves, when and how to "check out".
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#4 Rov Judicata

Rov Judicata

    Crassly Irresponsible and Indifferent

  • Islander
  • 15,720 posts

Posted 04 March 2009 - 08:39 AM

Quote

Under a ballot measure passed during November elections, physicians in the northwest state will be allowed to write prescriptions for lethal doses of drugs for terminally ill patients who have less than six months to live.

Well, on the plus side, you don't have to worry about whether the drug will have lethal interactions with anything else...

On a more serious note, it seems like we may see another front in the "conscience clause" wars.  I imagine there are many pharmacists who won't be willing participants in an assisted suicide.
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#5 Themis

Themis
  • Islander
  • 6,544 posts

Posted 04 March 2009 - 08:56 AM

View PostGodeskian, on Mar 4 2009, 10:52 AM, said:

Quote

"Around 30 percent of people who get prescriptions don't take them and end up dying of their underlying illness.

"We know from these people that what was important was having the knowledge that they had the option if things became too difficult. Having that knowledge allowed them to keep going."

I think that's an important point... knowing they have an option.  

I can see some pharmacists not wanting to fill the prescription...

One just never knows.  I have an acquaintance dying of cancer.  Two days ago she was taken to the hospital with breathing problems and fluid on the lungs that might've been pneumonia; she refused a breathing tube and was ready to die.  Next day when the fluid was drained she was feeling much better and sounding positive.  The eventual outcome isn't in doubt.  But within 24 hours she went from ready to die to ready to fight longer.  Still, at some point the fight could be too much and knowing there's an option could be a comfort.  To be able to choose the time surrounded by loved ones, not connected to a bunch of wires and tubes... I think that's a good thing.
Cats will never be extinct!

#6 Lord of the Sword

Lord of the Sword
  • Islander
  • 15,681 posts

Posted 04 March 2009 - 09:38 AM

View PostThemis, on Mar 4 2009, 08:56 AM, said:

I can see some pharmacists not wanting to fill the prescription...

Then I truly feel sorry for that pharmacist. First, it's none of their damn business. Period. Their job is to fill the prescriptions, nothing more. And second, and more importantly, if they insist on inserting their beliefs onto someone who is in that much pain, and is ready to die...then that pharmacist had better watch out.

If a person is committed, truly committed, to ending their life they WILL FIND a way. Some might just jump off the nearest building. Others might chose suicide by cop...and what better way to get the police's attention then walking back into the drugstore and killing the pharmacist?

And no, I'm not advocating that happen...but I can see it happening.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#7 Rov Judicata

Rov Judicata

    Crassly Irresponsible and Indifferent

  • Islander
  • 15,720 posts

Posted 04 March 2009 - 09:55 AM

LotS-- Is there any end to that logic?  If somebody decides to hang himself and makes this intention known at Lowe's, are the employees really required to help him pick out a strong rope and teach him the fundamentals of knot-tying?
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#8 Lord of the Sword

Lord of the Sword
  • Islander
  • 15,681 posts

Posted 04 March 2009 - 10:37 AM

View PostRovEsque, on Mar 4 2009, 09:55 AM, said:

LotS-- Is there any end to that logic?  If somebody decides to hang himself and makes this intention known at Lowe's, are the employees really required to help him pick out a strong rope and teach him the fundamentals of knot-tying?

If their job is to help the customer....then yes.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#9 Broph

Broph
  • Islander
  • 6,671 posts

Posted 04 March 2009 - 11:27 AM

View PostLord of the Sword, on Mar 4 2009, 02:38 PM, said:

Then I truly feel sorry for that pharmacist. First, it's none of their damn business. Period. Their job is to fill the prescriptions, nothing more. And second, and more importantly, if they insist on inserting their beliefs onto someone who is in that much pain, and is ready to die...then that pharmacist had better watch out.

It's a tough call. I have a friend who is a hospital pharmacist, and part of his job is to look at a prescription and say "Good God, man, this could kill somebody!". The pharmacist could be the only thing standing between a doctor and a person that the doctor doesn't like very much.

But I don't think a pharmacist should be forced to be included in this. In essence, by filling the prescription, the pharmacist could see it as putting bullets in a gun. He may not be "pulling the trigger", but he knows that he'd be complicit in the act and it may disturb the rest of his life knowing that he helped to end a life.

Quote

If a person is committed, truly committed, to ending their life they WILL FIND a way. Some might just jump off the nearest building. Others might chose suicide by cop...and what better way to get the police's attention then walking back into the drugstore and killing the pharmacist?

I think for a lot of people, we're talking about people who are permanently in a hospital bed and can't do some things on their own. They likely wouldn't be able to jump off of a building, for instance. And when you get down to it, there are plenty of OTC options that are available to a person who is able to take care of such things themselves.

#10 Captain Jack

Captain Jack

    Where's the rum?

  • Islander
  • 14,914 posts

Posted 05 March 2009 - 04:06 AM

View PostGodeskian, on Mar 4 2009, 02:52 AM, said:

http://uk.news.yahoo...-s-0b0437e.html

Quote

Under a ballot measure passed during November elections, physicians in the northwest state will be allowed to write prescriptions for lethal doses of drugs for terminally ill patients who have less than six months to live.

Only one other US state -- Oregon -- has similar legislation, although a court in Montana recently ruled that terminally ill patients had the right to seek physician-assisted suicide.

Quote

"Aided dying is neither euthanasia nor suicide," said Terry Barnett, president of the Washington branch of Compassion & Choices advocacy group.

"It's not euthanasia because euthanasia implies action by a physician to end a patient's life. It's not suicide because people who choose aid in dying are not choosing to end their lives.

"They don't want to die -- they're choosing to end suffering that cannot be relieved and suffering that they are experiencing that is worse than death."

Quote

To obtain a prescription a patient would need to make two oral requests followed by a written request witnessed by two people who are not related or connected to the individual. Two doctors must also affirm that the patient has six months or fewer to live.

Barnett said Washington physicians who object to the legislation have the right to decline a request for a lethal prescription.

"Anyone who has an objection of conscience may choose not to participate," he said. Physicians were also not allowed to administer the fatal drugs.

Quote

"Around 30 percent of people who get prescriptions don't take them and end up dying of their underlying illness.

"We know from these people that what was important was having the knowledge that they had the option if things became too difficult. Having that knowledge allowed them to keep going."

I've always supported assisted suicide, and euthanasia for that matter, so obviously I think this is a step in the right direction. What do you think?

Assisted suicide is a mixed bag for me.  I am not a fan of it, with the exception that a person is terminally ill, and is sufferring badly.  Then yeah, I can see assisted suicide as a fair request and even a right, perhaps.  So, I don't really have a problem with this, actually.  Animals have been euthanized for a lot less.
Posted Image
689 Reasons to Defeat Barack Obama in 2012:

https://www.national...at-barack-obama

#11 SparkyCola

SparkyCola
  • Islander
  • 14,904 posts

Posted 05 March 2009 - 10:07 AM

View PostLord of the Sword, on Mar 4 2009, 03:37 PM, said:

View PostRovEsque, on Mar 4 2009, 09:55 AM, said:

LotS-- Is there any end to that logic?  If somebody decides to hang himself and makes this intention known at Lowe's, are the employees really required to help him pick out a strong rope and teach him the fundamentals of knot-tying?

If their job is to help the customer....then yes.

:blink:
Able to entertain a thought without taking it home to meet the parents

#12 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

  • Islander
  • 9,215 posts

Posted 05 March 2009 - 10:11 AM

View PostLord of the Sword, on Mar 4 2009, 10:37 AM, said:

View PostRovEsque, on Mar 4 2009, 09:55 AM, said:

LotS-- Is there any end to that logic?  If somebody decides to hang himself and makes this intention known at Lowe's, are the employees really required to help him pick out a strong rope and teach him the fundamentals of knot-tying?

If their job is to help the customer....then yes.

What if what they want to do is illegal. Of course someone would be really dump to state their intent.... ;) What if they said they were going to put a noose around someone else's neck.
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#13 Rhea

Rhea

  • Islander
  • 16,433 posts

Posted 05 March 2009 - 11:27 AM

I have no problem with this - the bill specifies terminally ill patients with less than six months to live. We allow terminally ill people to die in excruciating pain, often reduced to whining like injured animals. While hospisces have certainly helped with controlling pain in terminally ill patients, I believe that people who are terminally ill should have control over when, where and how they die. Often just knowing they have a way out is enough.
The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Health, Assisted Suicides, 2009, Washington State

0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users